Foreigners are influencing Zambia’s constitutional making process – Lifwekelo

1. Since when did the two I.D.O.I.T.S become newsworth Lifwekelo & cifire?

2. Forum of losership.

3. ” Mr. Lifwekelo claimed in a statement to ZANIS today that some of the leaders representing civil society organizations are foreigners ”
   & who the heck invited foreigners & this same mbuzi to NCC?

4. Ba filwekelo mwaba i lyenu8-x[-o<^:)^:-?:-\"%%-

5. Lets be specific people…which foreigners, when and how were their instructions communicated??? But surely everyone with a brain can tell that these fellows are on a brown envelope search!!!

6. Who cares whether they attend NCC, make submission to the draft or not, the draft constitution will be adapted and enacted nevertheless. In short they are inconsequantial legion of losers in self inflated value. Zed has over 13 million citizens now with over 5 million of voting age who willingly could participate in the process.

7. Once a F.O.O.L for ever a F.O.O.L

8. No alien will be allowed to influence this process, an one found wanting wetha zambiatta or alien, yo go meet your maker!:)>-

9. Constitutional circus probably employment for some now.How long is this process for ever?thus why we cannot progress as Zambians simple straight forward issues last forever.What are our Core Values?those asre the ones we must stick to.

10. :d:d/…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..

11. not even the makers of this nonsense even follow it so WTF8->

12. ” Forum for Leadership Search Zambia says the constitution making process should be without foreign influence to allow Zambians to decide how the process should proceed. ”

    Which is ironic, because the NCC process seems to have been directed by George Kunda. The NCC draft constitution is a document that is pandering to all kinds of special interest groups, but mainly the Christian evangelicals and the MMD politicians.

    The MMD prefers to get ‘donor aid’ from abroad (giving foreign governments a say in Zambian domestic and foreign policy) instead of taxing the mines and keeping Zambian resources and money at home. So for mr. Lifwekelo to now complain that foreigners are meddling in the NCC process is a bit much.

    Also, these evangelicals don’t spring from Zambia either, do…

13. Has this guy said anything? No. He has just made noise.

14. Fellow zambians what leadership does this fool ltalk about ? Rupiah.

15. What is being undermined in the NCC DC, are Zambian people’s individual liberties. Whether it is Article 48 (protection from discrimination) or Article 60 (press freedom).

    What is being undermined in the NCC DC, are Zambian people’s individual liberties. Whether it is Article 48 (protection from discrimination) or
    Article 60 (press freedom), there are so many exemptions put in that these articles become meaningless. And I think that is the story.

    Also, the statement that any person above 18 is ‘free to choose a marriage partner of the *opposite* gender’ seems very petty to me.

    And ‘life begins at conception’ turns every woman who freely chooses to exercise her individual right to use contraception, and her doctor into murderers (i.e., the takers of life).

16. By the way I am not gay, and I am not a (pregnant) woman, but I recognize suffocating interference by the state into people’s personal lifes when I see it. And we have all seen how for instance anti-pornography laws can be abused by the powers that be (Chansa Kabwela and The Post).

    This is all pandering nonsense, and I think it has no place in a modern constitution. This pandering to being ‘Christian’ is so 1950s to me. And what it is hiding, is business as usual. It is hiding that no powers or independence are transferred

    The real problem is that these politicians, like the colonial authorities of old, do not trust Zambians with real enforcable rights. Look at all the exceptions to a journalist’s right to protect his or her sources:

17. Freedom Of Media

    60. (1)There shall be freedom of the press and other media.

    (2) A journalist shall not be compelled to disclose a source of information EXCEPT AS MAY BE DETERMINED BY A COURT.

    (3) Nothing contained in or done under the authority of any law shall be held to be inconsistent with or in contravention of this Article to the extent that it is shown that the law in question makes provision that is reasonably required for the purpose of –

    a) in the interest of defense, public safety, public order, public morality or public health;
    b) protecting the reputations, rights and freedoms of other persons concerned in legal proceedings;
    c) preventing the disclosure of information received in confidence;
    d) maintaining the authority and independence of the courts;

18. e) regulating educational institutions in the interests of persons receiving instruction therein; or
    f) the registration of, or regulating the technical administration or the society; and
    g) specify the role of Government in securing and protecting the public interest in broadcasting

    *******

    So where do all these exceptions leave the right to protect sources, when any politician, police officer, etc. can just walk up to any judge, and state that the anonymity of their sources violates any of the above exeptions to freedom of the press.

19. Also, at every turn does the NCC DC give more powers to parliament, instead of transferring power from the legislature and to the judiciary, civil service, parastatals, etc.

    And there is an irritating tendency of saying – here, we are giving you a freedom, but in the same sentence we are limiting that freedom.

    There is no transferring of budgets from the central government to local or district councils, which is what real decentralisation ultimately means.

20. Just by reading the statement one clearly understand that this is a poverty stricken fool that want attention from the mulfunctioning president. Be careful when you talk about donors, listern just a few hours ago from the minister of Health Simbao pronoucement about AID.
    This MMD is a problem to Zambia and needs to voted out

21. Legislation cannot discriminate, but… look at all the exemptions the NCC put in where the law CAN discriminate:

    Article 48 (2) exempts none-discrimination for: tax collection purposes (a), hiring in public service (b), non-Zambians (c), personal law (d), customary law (e), ‘special circumstances’ (f).

    In other words, the exceptions to Article 48 listed in clause 2 render Article 48 meaningless.

    This is what I mean when they say they don’t trust the Zambian people with any kinds of real rights and freedoms. It has the suffocating imprint of central government, central control, the MMD, George Kunda and all the old one party instincts that this constitution is supposed to do away with.

22. listen people if we want to move our country forward lets kill all stupid old politicians. RB,SATA,this other dog called banda from malawi,etc.hahahaha join me in clearing these guys off. otherwise they continue dragging us back.

    OK I MEAN LETS FORCE THEM OUT OF POWER!!!

23. MrK I thank you for illustrating your point ever so eloquently. You are absolutely right in that the government finds our freedom as threatening to their grip on power, (though wrong understandibly so). Further, as in the above article, we have learne over time that without a strong and free unbiased media it is difficult to engage government in meaningful discussion over their continued tact of misleading voters with rhetoric. As is with the issue in Zimbabwe, foreigners have in the past acted more in the interest of their citizens at our expense, but that does not add up to them always/or in this case doing so. Rather, we have selfish Zambians using past and unrelated failures on the part of some foreign organisations to justify their acts of repression.

24. Just to ensure I am not misunderstood, I draw a similarity to the Zimbabwe land issue in that it is an example of something that was once a legitimate concern wrongly used (by Mugabe) to keep a grip on power and disregard the sentiments of the people in general. It is also ironic that when fitting to us we accept foreign inluence willingly and then call them enemies when they try to protect citizens from dictators. I wonder how many Zambians acknowledge that the end of KKs reign had more to do with Western influence than our on push for change. The West created democracy, the ruling party brags about it while denouncing the West. That’s just illogical and stupid indeed.

25. Abena CB, Thank you very much.

    I would also add that this push for having a ‘Christian Nation’ also comes from abroad, through the evangelical movement in the US, and all these Southern US preachers who make frequent trips to Africa. For instance Joyce Meyer was in Zimbabwe recently, and Rick Warren and “The Family” were behind pushing anti-gay legislation in Uganda.

    On the issue of land reform in Zimbabwe, a lot about this issue has not appeared in the mainstream press, and there is a lot more to it than what is allowed to be printed or broadcast by the likes of the BBC, CNN, etc. Please check out the articles and references on my blog at maravi.blogspot /com.

    You may be surprised to learn that landreform was reneged on by the British government, through Clare Short.

26. ts hypocritical, insensitive, overjoyous and impromptly inappropriate for my government to recall all embassy staff back home after all efforts that we have thrown behind MMD. If this is the new way of entering election year then lets but-heads because I am ready to expose the grand scheme under way for MMD to scoop the election dubiously! MMD under our current hypocritical tyrants have no place in our beloved country. In a few days I will be announcing which party Im joining.

27. I agree with you MrK when you say that many of these ideas are from the west, including the christian nation thing. Having no way to push that agenda in the west, they have found Africa easy ground to spread their discriminative messages. The anti-g.a.y issue is another one that is sponsored by western evangelists who fail to spread their hate in the west. Zambian pastors receive financial support from these people and then they start spitting their venom on very receptive and impressionable minds. Zambians need to be very careful of messages coming from some of these false prophets. God will never ask you to hate another human being. These people have failed to spread this message in their own countries and Africa is the only reason they have to hold on to these ideas.

28. Aba balwele naimwe….!

29. Maria and MrK, just where have you guys been?So refreshing to know the Zambians that see beyond the political affiliation pettyness still have the energy to contribute their ideas and oppinions. Again not to sound too polarized but I agree with the both of you entirely. Just to add to what Maria says, I find it ironic that we are unable to draw similarities between the use of the bible to justify slavery back in the day and it’s use to justify discrimination today.
    MrK, I’ll read the articles and thanks. I look forward to reading more of your contributions.

30. This boy Linfwenkelo does not look health at all. Pls put him on ARVs as soon as possible if he is not yet on them. It seems he is now paying 4 having used his little john carelessly. Hahahahaha ARVs pls!!

31. Maria,

    ” The anti-g.a.y issue is another one that is sponsored by western evangelists who fail to spread their hate in the west. ”

    They have had a setback because GW Bush lost the White House.

    The Republicans in the US have very cynically used two strategies, the Southern Strategy (race baiting) and the 3 Gs (God, Guns and Gays) in their ‘culture wars’. The ‘Culture Wars’ is what they used to get enough votes so they could push an agenda that no one would vote for – which was the destruction of the American middle class. They represent the top 0.5% of the US population. 20% of Americans are poor, 79.5% were middle class, and 0.5% owned 50% of the economy, they were the super rich.

32. And they have used race baiting, gay baiting and ‘liberal’ baiting to push that elitist agenda. The result is that the US consumer is broke, their jobs have been sent overseas, that they are under threat of losing their homes, and all through policies that have brought us the 2nd Great Depression. With the effect and I would say the purpose, of destroying the middle class as a power base.

    And here the MMD is putting Christian moralism into the constitution, without actually sharing power. I think that too is a very cynical ploy to maintain power. You can bet that if they manage to pass this Constitution, in future they will run on a platform of ‘moralism’, and try and get the Churches to support them on those grounds. And attack any opposition party as ‘immoral’.

33. The day is yet to come when we will have leaders that truly push agendas that are 100% Zambian. The last independent leader of Zambia was KK. He served no foreign master and was committed to uplifting the people of this land.

34. You know that a country is in trouble when people like Edwin can give guidance on national issues. Yes foreigners are welcome to contribute to the constitution making process. Zambia does not live in isolation from the rest of the world, and all stakeholders should be allowed to contribute to the constitution making process. The level of influence should however, be managed through transparency in the process. Left to their own devices, the NCC, would act in their political interests rather than the national interest. Who would otherwise provides the checks and balances to the interests of political parties, the christian fundamentalists and self interest groups?

35. This Edwin Linfwenkelo chap is just confused with his sickness. He must be flown 2 South Africa 4 specialised treatment on ARV therapy like George Kunda. Look at his head. Only mizipe remaining!!!

36. and check the lips of the character seated next to him. black as in shoe polish. as for li(****)elo the boy needs them ARVs quick. he is in a moving casket. anytime he may join his maker. let him enjoy the money but reserve some for his funeral expenses as it may be expensive to bury him or alternatively we can cremate the little Mr Bones.

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