THE rare trial of a gay couple of Kapiri Mposhi is in new twist with the defence challenging medical evidence proving the sexual act between the two.
Defence lawyer Sunday Nkonde, a former solicitor general, has argued that the medical evidence adduced in court by a State witness cannot be relied on because it came from an ‘unqualified’ medical practitioner.
This is in a case where Philip Mubiana, a hairdresser, and James Mwape, a bricklayer, both aged 21, are appearing in court for having sex against the order of nature.
The evidence in question was tendered in court by Melody Luhanga, a medical licentiate officer who examined the duo’s private parts in April this year.
Mr Nkonde submitted on Monday before Kabwe principal magistrate John Mbuzi who sat in Kapiri Mposhi that Melody Luhanga a medical licentiate officer at Kapiri Mposhi District Hospital was not qualified to be an expert witness and his testimony and medical reports he issued to Mubiana and Mwape should not be admitted as expert evidence.
“Therefore, in this case, it is appropriate for the court as the gatekeeper to inquire and be satisfied that this witness has expertise in the field of sexual assault examination or has forensic qualifications to conduct the subject examinations on both accused persons…” Mr Nkonde submitted.
He contended that when an expert witness appears in court, he must have scientific, technical or specialised knowledge on the subject matter to assist the court to understand the evidence or to determine the fact.
Mr Luhanga testified on October 25, 2013.
“We humbly submit that only a legally qualified medical practitioner with experience and training in such cases should be allowed to conduct such a medical examination.
“If a person is not specifically trained in the conduct of forensic sexual assault examinations, there is a risk that assumptions are made from the observations which are scientifically sound and which excludes other possible medical explanations for such observations,” Mr Nkonde said.
The State, however, said it could only respond to the defence’s submissions after studying them because it was given written submissions in court on Monday.
Central Division deputy division prosecution officer Lennox Kasungu told the court that the State will be able to present written submissions within 14 days.
Trial continues on December 5, 2013.
That is too hard for this incopetenant Presuction led by their head Nchito, expect another nolle prosequi soon
So in principle this lawyer means clinical officers are not medically qualified , any way I agree with this lawyer little knowledge is dangerous , I remember this Kama clinical officer called Sven or sweni he was so pompous like a dr, I told him off with his Kama wrong prescription that my friend get off here iam a pharmacist and I know about drugs in this world than anyone and just changed his amoxyl prescription from QID to TID these chainama dr is not things
Ndobo have you had your back door kicked in? You can come out of the closet, we will support you mate.
What is nature? and what is sex? Is wanking natural? who inspected their sewer pipes? He too might have just committed a crime. Verdict: Let them go!
let those chaps rot in jail..they are silly..
You think a medical licentiate can fail to conduct a physical examination? this is an insult to the fraternity.
Yes he can fail.I can`t trust a graduate from Chinama college.The argument there is valid.
@ Saulosi, I thought you support Mutembo nad Injustice minister Kabimba? You have to trust their witnesses.
Yes clinical officers are not qualified medically, I have heard of Pharmacists and doctors and Radiographers trained in zambia going to work abroad name it Botswana etc, have u heard of a clinical officers gone to work in uk ????? Shaaaaa
So in principle this lawyer means clinical officers are not medically qualified , any way I agree with this lawyer little knowledge is dangerous , I remember this Kama clinical officer called Sven or sweni he was so pompous like a dr, I told him off with his Kama wrong prescription that my friend get off here iam a pharmacist and I know about drugs in this world than anyone and just changed his amoxyl prescription from QID to TID these chainama dr is not things
Why Homosexuality si illegal in that poverty stricken country Zambia is beyond my comprehension.I know some narrow minded people will say that the Bible says this and that,but understand one thing,not all of us believe in the Bible,not all of us are Christians,silly cow!
Good argument right there.Please release those two gentlemen.It was after all an act between two consenting adults.I just don`t get it why people should make it their business what the other person does with his behind.I equally used to hate gays while living in Zambia ,but now after years of living in a country where they are tolerated and an offense to discriminate them i have come to understand them as “normal” people with normal feelings and sensitivity like any of us.Just because i stick it in a different chunk of fresh doesn`t mean mine is better.To be honest i don`t understand why a man can crave another man but just because i don`t understand shouldn`t be a reason to persecute someone who does it differently. One love !!!!
there goes soulosi again!! trying very hard to sound civilised and educated,, homosexuality is unnatural and against the order of nature… consenting what?? these people are lost they need help. you should see how some of these poor african boys who run away from africa claiming to gay.. the come to europe offer their backside in `marriage`, When they develop rectal problems after being used and they get dumped,, its a sorry sight!!!.. an anus is not like a vigina, an anus has NO provision for depositing sperms!!! sperms desposited in the anus can cause alot of harm when they rot!!! people think!!!!
@Ndobo I can’t even understand what you wrote, sounds you know somebody who… and that @Saulosi guy is really upsetting people in heaven, how can you say gays are “normal” and have “normal feelings”… honestly?
Nawishiba Saulosi, I am about to go to church in 30 minutes, I promise I will NOT include your soul in my players, including those gays in Europe. But I will pray for those brain-washed lost souls of Kapiri boys.
@ndobo come on.Now you are disappointing me as if you don`t live in Sweden where homosexuals walks freely.If i can ask you how have those homosexuals in your city affected your life financially or otherwise ? Am sure your answer will not be to the affirmative.And please don`t talk about natural.Who told you what is natural and what is not ? Stop using your bible on others and stop using your lifestyle as a standard to judge others.Live your life and they live their@Nostradamus…awe naimwe put me in prayers too.God must be a God of love and not hate Saulosi because he supports people(homosexuals) who have been marginalized like the Samaritans and the lepers in the bible.
@soulosi
is it true that you are Phd student?? if the answer is yes then am shell shocked!!! read my comment #5.1. show me in my comment where i used the word bible,, i dont hate homosexuals as people but i dislike and reject homosexuality as an act thats why in my comment # 5.1 i said they need help,, off course gays in sverige live freely and the law of the land allows but i in Zambia its against the law of the land until then it remains illegal. Thats should be piece of cake to understand for PhD student with white girl friend like you…
i would encourage you to google nature or natural to understand my point on that word.
@ndobo yes i`m a PHD student and it is not rocket science.I hope your shock of me doing a PHD is not a sign of inferiority complex in you.I`m one guy who has never had any problems when it comes to exams.I always pass my exams despite how hard i play(i just find school easy despite having a very active social life).Last time i checked you were boasting about the number of white chicks you have banged without using protection.How is your sin of sleeping around different from homosexuals ? No sin is bigger than the other my friend.By the way it is never too late for you to get a PHD.Sweden has very good universities(I have been to karolina several times).
@soulosi
Am happy for you with your PhD,,, personally No thanks i dont need a PhD,.. you dont need of a world with every jim and jack with PhD, do you??.. i know people who were great in life but were not PhD holders…. i even know some illiterates who employed and fired PhD holders.. micheal Sata is one of those illiterates..
so sir soulosi you can keep your PhD.. I personally dont need one
my fornication pass or present is a sin so is homosexuality.. but understand this by law in zambia homosexuality is illegal.. simple
Good ! Now you are talking.I also didn`t initially plan to do one but my faculty decided to return me because i was a good masters student.They opted to recruit from within instead of advertising the position.Well it is my hope that those laws and rules will one day change because the population dynamics in Zambia are changing(The society is increasingly becoming more cosmopolitan).
Wow. Can you now apply the same tolerance and common sense of a grown-up adult when commenting about political issues?
@Saulosi
wow. You are the very voice of reason and objectivity here. Kudos.
The Gospel of Jesus Christ does not teach that humans should judge and punish those who sin against God?? Remember the story of the woman who was found committing adultery?? Christians are expected to pray for such and to bring them the Gospel so that they can repent. Are Christians now doing what Islamists do???
I am very sure that those advocating for punishing lesbians/gays are NOT Christians. They may claim to be and may be attending church but they are NOT followers of Christ. Know them by their fruit. Yes, lesbianism/gayism is abominable just as murder, stealing and worshipping idols is. Look at the idols in our churches and no one even butts an eyelid. Hypocrites, keep quiet.
@I have this to say
“…..Yes, lesbianism/gayism is abominable just as murder, stealing and worshipping idols is”
The difference is that people don’t go campaigning to legalize murder and robbery. You have just admitted and described lesbianism/gayism as abominable, the question is why promote such a filthy practice? We know kinky people exist in our midst. People don’t have a problem with them as long as the homos keep their filth hidden from public view. People have a problem when such obscene and repugnant lifestyle is dangled as a legitimate way of life.
As a Christian, the issue of HATE for individuals engaging in homosexual activities does not arise. What I am strongly against is the act itself. Period. And by the way, the argument that since it involves two consenting adults it should be legally allowed, does not hold unless the same law also allows incest in our Country. And by the way, there is not scientific evidence that some people are born gay. Its a choice.
Come on your argument is baseless.Incest is another thing hence using that to drive your argument home is lame.Treat homosexuality on its on and not comparing it to another thing.It is high time you stopped hating and discriminating people you don`t agree with.They don`t even hurt anybody(no harm to a third party)
@Saulosi, I don’t know what distillation you’ve been drinking this weekend, but it’s quite obviously you responded on impulse, you need more time to clear your head and digest the clear points I have raised @7 above. Once you have understood, try to respond point-for-point . Maybe, just maybe, we can then have an intelligent interaction on the subject based on points from scripture, from science and from rational laws in Zambia. I expect more depth from you than this disjointed pointless noise you have made @7.1, or are you saying this is you at best?
Of course by scientist with huge world-wide acknowledgment from the scientific community? Or more likely frustrated and incompetent quack looking for equally incompetent audience of pseudo-religious bigots?
@142, Hullo there, are you trying to respond to any of the points I raised above, or are you just clearing your throat?
@Cactus I’ll respond to the points you raised in no. 7.
It’s ok to be personally repulsed by the mechanics of the act itself, no one can take that away from you. (By the way, I am too, whether between 2 men or between a man and his woman).
With regard to incest, there’s a biological reason why it’s not permitted. The probability of having malformed progeny is significantly higher when the parents share a gene pool. Add on to that cultural norms and you have a no-no.
You are extrapolating the issue of incest onto the issue of homosexuality – 2 totally unrelated issues.
You state that it’s a predilection and not something dictated by genetics – the jury is still out on that one. But even if it’s a choice, it’s a choice that no one should be persecuted for.
@High speed, For as long as the primary argument in support of gay relationships remains premised in 2 consenting adults, the issue of incestuous relationship will remain included. The aspect of malformed off-springs when parents share a gene pool are well known in mammals, but what’s to stop such people from undergoing a vasectomy or any suitable birth controls and thereby eliminate such an ‘inconvenience’? After all reproduction is not a primary aim in gay / incestuous relationships. Then what? People without norms are a lost people.
On the issue of preference vs genetics, don’t you think the jury been gone a long time, so long that some questions are begging to be answered? Like what if, after so much hype, they don’t know how to come back and break the news that …
Cont’d…….the news that genetics is actually innocent? Or what if they have noted that this unnatural disposition is the same one in incestuous as well as paedophiles? Then what?
Honey moon coming to an end? Damn nothing lasts forever!
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@ Ndobo,
Chill, i meant their everyday honey moon in jail since they are about to be set free, once they are out, everyone will be monitoring their moves which will make it even harder to continue their Njoyi njoyi… hihihihihihi!
?????????
Membe Post stop ubu4ntin. Do you know how many lives I have saved including your mama’s? I actually delivered u. Ask your mama, and today u insult me?
Pushi iam glad you in USA now trying to change carrier after your frustration at the hands of doctors who never allowed u to jump to go to ridgeway . Just own up to the fact clinical officer is not a profession recognised outside the corridors of zambia. Ask Peter Malasa I encouraged to run away from bu CO TO do pharmacy now he is happy.
Otherwise u will just continue revolving ka certificate in opthomology,anaesthesia u tuma courses Ba CO Ba chita.
The devil’s defense of the evil of homosexuality is “hatred and discrimination!” Wait until God “discriminates you out of heaven” then you will cry in hell for ever. Only then will you remember we loved you by telling you the truth.
“You have this to say” you are WRONG. Society is established by God and so is government to uphold the law. Otherwise I can kill you and no one can do anything about it! I can rob you and no one should do anything about it! If that is what you imply, your reasoning is cannot be accepted, Sir!!
Satan supports Satan! If he were not then his kingdom would be divided. The lawyers with the help of International Satanism have received money to defend evil! God is watching!
Saulosi, what ever you are called. The organisation sponsoring you supports gayism and its not that they saw some intelligence in you for them to continue with their financial support but identified your weak mind. They realised that its easy to brain wash you. They pick on weaker individuals like yourself. It also happened with me, the scholarship came but after analysing it, I realised that it was not worth it. Dont think you a brain buster but a sucker who cant stand on what is right and defend it regardless of the situation. Very dissapointed with you.
@Choolwe, well spoken. You have a point there. It could be Saulosi is indeed hooked up with a gay organisation here in Western Europe that’s why he sounds obsessed with this fight against the ‘imaginary hate’ of gay people. And yet he has been told over and over that its the act itself people are against.
The argument of incest is valid! Should the country allow incest for two consenting adults? The argument of consenting adults has been forwarded and a challenge has been put forward which needs honest answers! The argument is not lame.
It seems the topic has pushed illiterate cadres completely away from this talk. Thanks, it iI good and healthy.
To say the list, I have enjoyed the above discussion.
I disagree with fagets i believe sex should be between a man and a woman. I care not about the bible and all that remember the same bible tolerates slavery and advises a man to marry a girl he rapes. The fact that i do not agree with the act is no reason to criminalize it. 2 or more consenting adults should be free to do as they please providing they do not hurt anybody. If our law is based on the bible then our law is very double standard. Why then do we allow people to re marry when marriage is supposed to be till death do us part??? why is divorce permitted on grounds other than adultery? There are lots of sins that are committed in Zed why are the fagets singled out??