Patriotic Front (PF) president Michael Sata has said part of the solution to ending the wrangles that have rocked the pact with the United Party for National Development (UPND) is to choose a presidential candidate who will lead the two parties to next year’s general elections.
Mr Sata said in Lusaka yesterday that apart from harmonising manifestos and other issues, the critical issue for the pact was to choose a leader and that a roadmap that includes electing the president had been prepared to bring the differences to an end.
He was commenting on a statement by Mr Hichilema that the pact was facing problems that needed urgent solutions and that the issue of blaming each other should be tabled.
Mr Sata said a joint committee with representation from both political parties was planning to hold a private meeting to salvage the pact from collapse, but top on the agenda was the issue of the leadership.
He declined to state when the leadership would be elected and insisted that the matter would be discussed internally.
Meanwhile, UNZA political scientist, Phinias Baala has said the differences between the PF and UPND were serious and advised the two parties to disband.
Mr Baala, a lecturer in the school of political science, said the differences were deep and that it was impossible for the two parties to reconcile.
And Southern Province Minister, Daniel Munkombwe has said the current divisions in the PF and UPND have proved his earlier prediction that their pact would not last.
[ Times of Zambia ]
Stop cheating yourselves that a cure for this paralysis has finally been found. The ego and ambitions of a self anointed dictator and that of a tribal stooge are diametrically opposed and irreconcilable. What legitimate mechanism are you going to turn to for the Presidency when you are allergic to elections? Who doesn’t know that this thing called pact was relegated to the dustbin of failed dreams the very day it was announced?
Please ba HH, Sata had more votes than you in the last 2 elections. Give the majority the Presidency and guarantee yourself as future presido because Sata wont last forever. Just show us that you are not greedy by giving away the Presidency without these never-ending meetings when we all know what needs to be done. VIVA Pact!!!
Ba LT y reporting about the pact everyday,mmd has worse problems bt u hav chosen t ignore them,u know very wel that they a nt democratic
The best thing for these two leaders is not to correspond to each other using the press but why can’t they sit down on around table and discuss their differences? Are they so divided now that they don’t even want to talk to each other in person than using the press? Mind you if they think they can unseat the MMD in their individual party’s then they are just day dreaming. MMD with their tricks of vote rigging will be smiling all the way for 2011 elections because there is NO formidable party to give them a serious challenge.
Senior Citizen,
Calling Sata and HH names as you have just done (dictator & tribal) is what belongs in the dustbin you have mentioned. Whatever you call does not matter anymore. Let us now wait for them to select the leader and meet and beat MMD in 2011.
Someone is asking, asfter you have been recalled from the embassy are you going back to announcing the program line-up on TVZ (now ZNBC)? I suppose not, no wonder you worship MMD
#3 Samba, I thought you knew where LT belongs in terms of partisan politics. just look at the sources of their news on partisan politics: it is usually Times of Zambia, Daily mail, sometimes QFM (just to ‘balance’ things).
By the way, this story is from “Times of Zambia”? You guys have lost your true ethics of reporting objectively! For times of Zambia, daily mail and znbc, it’s campaign time for MMD all the way up to 2011. It must be easy being a journalist at these institututions coz all you do is churn up a bunch of crap about the opposition, and you’re in the game. SHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAME!!!
Is the Presidency of this defunct pact a preserve of two egoists only with others there as uninterested cheerleaders or imifuko yabuka holding no dream to the presidency? How did this nonsense of restricting the Presidency to the two professional ballot rejects come about in a democracy? If they cannot open up to democracy, how can they preside over a democratic nation? Isn’t this a paradox if not a historic ordeal before citizens?
Which solution?stop washing dirty linean in public and declare the PACT died,period.
am very disapointed.
ba fi ka la!!! after giving us hope.
Just how and why should anyone let outsiders dictate what you will cook in your own kitchen? The PACT leadership problem was and remains an internal issue that did and still does not require non-PACT entities to force the issue to this sad end. I have always understood the PACT arrangement to mean work NEVER against each other. One would have loved the issue of who the Presidential candidate for the PACT would be to the very end, maybe after the announcement of the election by ECZ… sorry make that by the President.
8. Senior Citizen
The pact presidency is not restriced to HH or Sata, there has never been such a declaration! Even if it was, it is because each has a following and leads a political party. Unlike MMD who have said RB will be unlike MMD that have said RB will go unopposed at the convention, shame.
The real ballot rejects is MMD as 60% of Zambians rejected them in 2008
However the pact or MMD come up with a candidate is an internal affair, as long as the national constitution is not breached when they face each other in 2011 to lead the nation.
For over 1 year wasted since the so-called pact was born, all Zambians have come to know of this political shell is their menu of insults, lies, fantasies, delusions and failed antics may be because its been a leaderless dream. No policy articulation, game plan, idealism, or clear cut scoreboard. Zambians have seen illusion after illusion from the theater of Ichilema and his concubine Sata.
It is so anoying that we pay these HEFTY taxes in this country and a huge chunk of the money goes to refurbish such unmeaningful institutions like Times of Z, Daily mail and ZNBC. Nga ni ba ZNBC bena, we even top up TV License fee so that they can buy new cameras ya ku kopa fye ba RB na ba George K na ba Siliya wherever they go. Awe mwandi!!!
13. Senior Citizen
Name calling wont change anything, just wait until the elections next year. Chembo is ready to return home, he has plan. Have you? After all these years of reading program lineup on TVZ are you not ashamed you now need to l1ck 4ss for your daily bread?
What has been the primacy of this polity if i may candidly ask their zealots right here?
Makes sense and this has been what we have been calling for and nice Mr Sata step up to the plate. What the PACT need now is a single leader and we start compaigning for that leader , the rest will fall into place
Ba Senior Citizen, you still haven’t answered the question above about your plans when you return from ku mangalande after being fired in 2011; bushe ni “back to continuity/program announcer nangu shani”?
#12, You are very right; “The real ballot rejects is MMD as 60% of Zambians rejected them in 2008”
15. Senior Citizen
Please rephrase the question in a clear way
“the critical issue for the pact was to choose a leader and that a roadmap that includes electing the president had been prepared to bring the differences to an end.”
This is why this pact is doomed to failure. Mr. Sata what you need to structure and not electing the president of the pact. The problem with the pact is it has no structure. What Mr. Sata is trying to do is tie the pact to the leader the same way the PF is tied to Mr. Sata. This should not be the case. The leader must be tied to the party. This is why Mr. Sata is PF and PF is Mr. Sata.
This is also why the MMD has been the most successful political party in democratic Zambia so far. It is because the MMD has got a structure and the leader of the party has a mandate to fulfill the goals of the MMD and the…
The tribal Tonga Bantus-tan wont accept the venomous cobra for president and obviously the Bemba Bantus-tan wont accept the tribal HH.
LT cannot do investigative jounalism, too dull. Sometimes they depend on me for news. OK let me tellyou something. Ka Chiluba made this country lose $20m (yes 20 Million USA dollars) in a botched arms deal/sale to Zambia. The arms were never recieved by Zambia up to today and the money was and has never been recovered and will never be under MMD & RB. Thats how money was plundered in Zambia. So Fi LT investigate this one.
Senior Citizen’s prayer is for the pact not to work for he knows that if it works, it will signal the end of him and the Government job he has. Wake up man and heed advise on what you will do upon your return from the States. May be you will decide to stay put and start washing dishes in restaurants there. Good Luck and stop those irritating tantrums and just concentrate on building the shattered image of your party.
#15, ehh?
cont from #19
mandate to fulfill the goals of the MMD and the Zambian people. This is why the MMD manifesto is in writing as well as the vision 2030 which is readily available to everyone.
The MMD has been around for so long because it has a strong structure. They can field any of the best candidates to run for elections and if they win, continue with developmental projects. This is different from the PF which becomes non-existent without Mr. Sata. The reason is because the PF does not have a structure. The party is tied to the president.
Is Senior Citizen the editor of thos blog. each time I post something against him is blocked. Small wonder all reports are quoted from Times of Zambia
Pact against Crucible of leadership
One year on, much to the chagrin of the beleaguered pact fanatics, the promised united front has been disgracefully aborted at the hand of tribal cabals masquerading as leaders. Their so-called pact they floated on has only shown a spirit and surge in despotism, corruption, ego, vandals, baseless threats of civil wars and asylum to Taiwan of a 5th ballot defeat.
asylum to Taiwan after taking in a pending 5th time ballot defeat.
“If they cannot open up to democracy, how can they preside over a democratic nation? Isn’t this a paradox if not a historic ordeal before citizens? “
And that is an important question the Pact must answer. If they cannot open up to democracy, how will they preside over a democratic nation?
I still remember Mr. Sata in 2008 stating that whoever wins the presidential by-election must rule for 5 years. I wonder if he still holds this view especially taking into account that months after he lost, he was calling for early elections.
@Mwamba keep on dreamng. ‘ things will fall into place’ is a phrase that does not exist in the vocabulary of a strategist. Dooooooooooooooooooom awaits the PACT because on the day the presido will be chosen all hell will break looooooooooooooose
Everywhere you go citizens now are dismayed at the evanescent of political opposition they have long wished to have that could be organized to give checks and balances to the democratic ruling MMD. Non democratic actors as the so-called pact have made the opposition politics unattractive to potential voters.
#25, nga imwe??? Kindly advise!!!
Voters now know that the solutions to Zambia’s problems are long term, thus incisive leadership with the right implements and resolve evident in the Rupiah Banda administration is needed to keep strategizing and extricating the country from past political conundrum while insulating it against tribal cabals the dead pact would spell on the country. Voters keep rejecting these professional ballot rejects understanding that their dictatorship is not a panacea to the time instead, democratization which is the catalyst of political and economic reforms need to be actuated and taken seriously by democrats.
Can anyone please help me with UPND’s foreign policy,particularly in relation to china?
These unelectable pact dictators would only give the country a bifurcated system of justice and political witch hunting typical of their ways. Remember how management and corporate executive icon Mwnamubotu Kambela Anderson Mazoka with all the value he had for the common good was unceremously hounded out of MMD just because he was elected as Bauleni ward chairman.
sata agree the pact is a marcarated stillborn. give presidency toHH and ba kaponya in lusaka and CB will desert you. the little support you have in bembaland will melt away. should HH give presidency to sata then ba tonga ba lozi ba kaonde lubale lunda will all shift to MMD. pact is a bomb which will explode in the face of sata and hh. these two will regret having gone into a pact
On “Meanwhile, UNZA political scientist, Phinias Baala has said the differences between the PF and UPND were serious and advised the two parties to disband” what does the UNZA lecturer mean when s/he says the two parties disband?
Does s/he want them to cease being political parties in Zambia? Does s/he want them to disband and them form one political party?
Clearly, the news reporter at the Times of Zambia did not report the item from Mr/s Baala properly.
Have a blessed day.
_
Matt 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you.
#33, which democrats are you praising here? Definitely not the MMD and Rupiah Banda we all know? Where have you been my friend? Have you eaten too much KFC where you are that you are not even in touch with reality any more? I knew you to be objective some time ago but now, eiisssh!!! Anyway, bread and butter…. what can we say!!!
RB would rather go to the MMD convention to be declared sole candidate (Self imposed) and you call that democarcy? Why can’t he just defeat Mpombo and Magande fairly at the convention instead of “vigilante” bulling style of politicking ensuring that no one stands against him? Puliiiiz, how democratic!!!
#33 Senior fimo fimo Face the facts RB only won by a crooked 2% from Shangombo who doesn’t know it was the OP who voted in shangombo? You fear Sata and you know he can turn tables and you know with the pact you are completely gone. If you are real democrat as you purports you must be aware that MMD is the most corrupt party that has ever lived in the history of Zambia. You will die with your small Kafupi MMD political consultant with his convicted stolen wife.
On “Mr Sata said in Lusaka yesterday that apart from harmonising manifestos and other issues, the critical issue for the pact was to choose a leader and that a roadmap that includes electing the president had been prepared to bring the differences to an end… He declined to state when the leadership would be elected and insisted that the matter would be discussed internally” it is great that Mr PF/Sata MC has now told his followers that the 2011 PF-UPND PACT presidential candidate will actually be elected and not appointed on compromise between him and the mighty UPND’s HH.
Thus, let PF go to a convention so that the list of delegates for the PF-UPND PACT convention that will elect their 2011 PACT presidential candidate is put in place as soon as possible.
_
Matt 6:33
#34 You will wait till Jesus returns for an answer on that one. HH shredded all UPND policy documents that the great Mazoka left. That is why he is working with Sata , so their policy is PF policy. How can the two walk together unless they be agreed?
# 18 how come the party/parties whom the 60% zambians voted for, never formed government?
It’s all sad to read that while the spineless trolls of defunct pact in the name of opposition politics, are seeing their defacto dictators freely brutalize their political party fantasies, the same poor cadre here are banking and placating them. All this vanity against people’s MMD, the father of the “Zambian Renaissance”. Sata has taken advantage of trolls’ gullibility to insulate himself and stymie all democratic hopes in the pact.
People’s ruling MMD, is the father of the “Zambian Renaissance”.
Against all odds, Sata and Ichilema have ushered into the political arena a strange and psychologically demented political philosophy latent with unpatriotism, lies, insults and vandalism known as “defunct pact”.
#42 continued..
I guess # 18 you left out the breakdown of the 60% which was:
PF 38%
UPND 19.7%
Heritage 0.76%
And the above results my dear brother is why MMD formed government.So trash the crap of 60% zambians did not vote for MMD,atleast 40% did.
# 41, thanks for the answer.I guessed so.
#42, are you with us or are you lost? Do you even know what you are writing about? Why am I even wasting my time giving an answer to somebody who may not even know his/her name? Don’t comment about things you don’t know lest you get burnt. This is not elementary school where I have to tell you that 60% (the opposition in this case) divided by 2 is 30% each, which is why they didn’t form govt. because at the time they weren’t working together (reason for the pact). How old are you by the way?
#46, 40% my *ss voted for the MMD!!!
I hope this can be sorted out the soonest- Most of us will be let down except LT and their minions
#49 cont., That’s why the pact is everybody’s concern now. Na ba MMD kumo… very concerned… TALK ABOUT YOUR OWN ISSUES MU MMD.. INCLUDING THE PRESIDENCY. Sort out bena Mpombo, Magande and company and please leave the pact to the interested parties… or are you also interested parties? Am sure you are interested parties in that, if the Pact succeeds, you looooooooose big time. OH NO!!!
we expected solution to conflict rom leart not this nosense the leacturer is saying this country is multipartism. this are people can not help their country with their education if you want to show as how learned you are analyse the all political movement in zambia and give us the alternatives.
Ba MMD, please leave the PACT issues to the interested parties to sort out. What is your interest in this? Mind your own business for once, e.g. Mpombo/Magande presidential issues. I think you have enough “cooking” in your own “kitchen” to keep you veeeeeeeeeeeery busy! Thank you.
# 49,I guess by the tone of your language,you must be a PACT thug,who cannot avoid the temptation of insulting even when there is no need to.So get down on your knees and ask Jesus for forgiveness.
I guess it is either now or never.If they can`t iron out their differences let them disband now, atleast it will give time for the individual parties to reorganise themselves.
This is Drama at it’s best!:o
42 Rigger,
Simple majority as eveyone knows. MMD 40%, PF 39%, UPND, 19%, other/spoilt 2%. You want me to explain it like I am telling a 5 year old? Are you so to thick you dont understand this??????
The best way to face the future is to look at the past, What happened with Simon Kapwepwe and Hurry M. Nkumbula, what is expected from HH & Sata? If the two gentlemen are not careful they will be best for achieve news in Zambia.
As for MMD, well I doubt if the party still exists because we are now with the UNIP reforms at work.
Good Afternoon
Others have described this problem far better than I could, so I won’t analyse much.
Only that from the start, our eyes were drawn to the pact because we thought here comes serious opposition for the ruling party. We tried to ignore the daily prognosis from Senior Citizen& co. that the pact would soon implode in an internal power struggle.
And now, instead of putting fire under MMD, they’re busy juggling solutions to avert their looming end. Desperate solutions will not secure the future of our country. It will not come as a surprise to see how the so called pact is reduced to a mere poitical rook in the incident of power sharing with the pre-dominant MMD.
29 Mr. Capitalist – 3 E’s steering economic growth greetings and I hope you saw that we use about 500 KWh/month at our home of 5 in Lusaka on electricity.
On “I still remember Mr. Sata in 2008 stating that whoever wins the presidential by-election must rule for 5 years. I wonder if he still holds this view especially taking into account that months after he lost, he was calling for early elections , this is a campaign message for UPND 2011 presidential candidate to the PF and UPND members who will meet at the PF-UPND PACT convention to elect a 2011 PF-UPND PACT presidential candidate to open their eyes on why Mr PF/Sata MC must not be presidential candidate.
_
Galantians 6:9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.
hey, Senior Citizen, nangu ni bootlicking, Or ni praises just for your bread and butter is too much..You are far away from the truth and reality.stop talking about your dreams and ask us who are in Zambia to tell you what is actually happening on the ground..MMD is dead my dear….whether you insult, bootlick, just start packing for your next plane home..FRIENDLY ADVISE-jump off the ship before it sinks with you….viva PACT!!
# 56, I am actually 2 years old.Now look at my 2011 forecast:
MMD = True blue MMD 40% + Disenchanted PF 18% + Disenchanted UPND 10% = 78%
PF = 7%
NRP = 7%
UPND = 6%
New Generation = 1%
Other = 1%
The continous insistence by PF (eg #2 above) that HH should just give way to sata now and be assured of being a president after sata’s life presidency ends during his presidential funeral is what is so disturbing. why cant there be a proper election where anyone including hh and sata can stand for PACT presidency instead of just hh giving way to sata? Oh is it becoz PF is anti-elections? This scheme of trying to force hh to step aside for sata is what will lead to the eventual break up of this marriage of convinience between upnd and pf. Let the PACT show us that they are democratic before we can risk giving them our vote to state house. We dont want a govt that will spend 5 years bickering and killing each other with pangas and machetes
“greetings and I hope you saw that we use about 500 KWh/month at our home of 5 in Lusaka on electricity.”
@ #59 Maestro Hhehhehhehhe for 2011 would-b President of Zambia HH, I have saw it and I thank you for the response. It has helped me a lot.
#61, spare us your nonsense. You can’t even add properly. 40+18+10=78 sure????
Actually I understand, you rightly said you’re 2 years old. All understood.
Now we know that we shouldn’t take any of your comments seriously. Thank you!
HH and MCS need to look reality in the face. It’s absolutely impossible for their pact to survive and are just wasting their time and energy looking for solutions to their problems.
If HH was realistic, he should yield to Sata for the pacts presidency because MCS got significantly more votes than him in the last elections. This is the only solution that might work. Even then, there’s no guarantee that the rank and file of the UPND will accept MCS.
The alternative of MCS ceding to HH is inconcievable and will result in the immediate implosion of the pact even if HH were to win primary elections – if they were ever held.
PF will not accept primary elections as they have no way of proving their membership – they don’t have membership cards in their party.
Solution to all this -…
Disbanding the PACT,is not a solution. It is high time Zambians started working together despite the differences in tribe. The major problem in the PACT is tribal sentiments by people who are backward and retrogressive. In this age and era,one is not supposed to think more about his/her tribe to be superior. Make a confidence test and find out a candidate who can dislodge MMD. We are in for a great shock should MMD win in 2011. It is a party that want to legalise theft of public resources. MMD winning in 2011 will mean end of Zambia. Nepotism,corruption and segregation will be order of the day.
Cont’d from 66
Immediate dissoltion of the pact.
#64, ah you are intelligent afterall.I left that additional problem for you to spot out.But why are you hanging out with the Kulima tower lot?
yah but choosing a leader now will give MMD an advantage. rite now MMD dont have where to aim their guns , so naming the leader will give them a target and they will destroy that target. Pact go on with out a leader and this will keep MMD in Disarray
Ba LUSAKA TIMES! LEAVE THE PACT ALONE!
#69, it is not MMD that will destroy the target,it is actually the Pact Bantustans(Tonga & Bemba) that will destroy that target.Neither are prepared to give in.A quick survey of this blog attests to this fact.
The Pact has actually no choice at the moment.Whether they name their candidate now or a day before elections,the implosion is inevitable.
HH is cursing the day he refused the vice presidency from LPM (M.H.S.R.I.P).
HH will go down in zambian history as a wanna be who never was.
SATA and HICHILEMA have no solution to the problems of the PACT. The TWO are the problems the PACT has.TOO MUCH ILLUSIONS IN THEIR HEADS.THEY HAVE NO DEMOCRACY IN THEIR PARTIES AND NO FREE DEBATES. DIVERGENCE VIEWS IS TAKEN AS BEING REBELLIOUS. LEADERS WANT TO HEAR THEIR OWN VOICES AND NOT FROM THEIR FOLLOWERS. SO FOR THEM DIVIDE AND RULE IS THEIR MOTTO. SO THEY WILL CONTINUE CREATING BANTUSTANS IN THE UNITARY ZAMBIA.THIS CAN NOT WORK HERE CITIZEN CHIEFS.
Andrew Banda, is he RB’ s son with the first wife? If not who is the mother? Were they married or it was just cigololo? Any difference with Sata?
Please somebody who knows the story should advise.
63 Mr. Capitalist – 3 E’s steering economic growth you are welcome.
65/67 Ricky Bobby? on your suggestion PACT is dissolved now and “The alternative of MCS ceding to HH is inconcievable and will result in the immediate implosion of the pact even if HH were to win primary elections – if they were ever held.[..] PF will not accept primary elections as they have no way of proving their membership – they don’t have membership cards in their party, it appears that you are an MMD cadres who is also probably advancing the RB as sole candidate for MMD president at a possible MMD convention.
The PACT must hold pres. cand. elections even if PF is anti-elections.
_
Galantians 6:9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint…
DELETED
What does my fellow learned friend mean when he talks about impossibilities? What sort of academician is he, a primary school teacher who says to his pupils 1-3=it can’t?
Come on, reconcilliations are possible.
Didn’t the scholar see KK and FJT toasting?
I have been observing the stories that are being published here on LT and I have come to realise that most of them are centered on the negative issues of the opposition. Is LT state owned? MMD also has problems of Mpombo & Magande but they are not reported on as much as the differences within the pact.
These days reading news on LT is like listening to Z.N.B.C news!!!
Ricky Bobby?: in other words you are saying Zambians are too primitive to practice democracy. This is the same reasoning KK used in the early 70s to shove a one party system down our throats. It is essential for the pact leaders to go through a primary contest for the grass root supporters to choose who they want to represent them. If we want democracy then we must learn to live by it’s rules.
It’s common knowledge that Sata is against elections because he is guilty of lying, fermenting tribal hatred & exploiting UPND elections 4yrs to expand his support base. He is worried that MMD will use the same tactics to weaken the pact.
If you want to make it in life you have to be tried and tested. The UPND/PF pact is now going through that phase and if they can pass this test then be assured MMD will be out.
The current happenings are a clear indication of victory for the pact and only foolish people will not see this.
They say pride comes before destruction: Yes vice president, Geoge Kunda’s statement that MMD will rule beyond 2030 whether people liked it or not is a clear indication of a proud man. Mark my words MMD is over next year.
This short set back the pact is facing has helped them to clearly express there feelings and thoughts and also expose those that were pretending. This is actually an opportunity for them to sort out their problems and it is clear that they are now coming face to face with reality.
OBSERVATION:: The MMD has two main oppositions to face: 1 is the UPND/PF pact. (2) Is the constitution. They have and seem to defeat the constitution particularly on the 50+1 issue. These two oppositions have some similarities in that the Pact brings the majority opposition who make up the majority voters and like wise the 50+1 would at the end of the day do the same in fact on an even larger pact.
the pact is here to stay..forget about the ARV veep…
MoH Zambia sent a truck with medicines today to Zimbabwe for measles immunisation. The breakout of measles came from Zimbabwe, just like it was on Cholera Zambia donated drugs there. This is good cause prevention is better than cure, so PF/UPND pact, you are failing to cure the disease. The MMD packed is doing more on the ground for its citizens you will forever be fighting
The Unza political scientist, Baala is so pessimistic even to the extent of saying it is impossible for UPND and PF to reconcile. I don’t know how he is applying his political knowledge. They say the word impossible only appears in the dictionary of ……s.
Let the PACT,let it die
The PACT, you are a bunch of useless dumb polititians. I donated K76m to this cause when we met at Ndeke Hotel. HH & Sata, can you give me back my money. I have been going around in foreign countries trying to drum up support for you *****s. Stop wasting time by giving interviews to the press when you know nothing will come out of this. You are taking Zambians as fools.
” Meanwhile, UNZA political scientist, Phinias Baala has said the differences between the PF and UPND were serious and advised the two parties to disband. ”
Really? Does ‘UNZA political scientist’ Phinias Baala work for the MMD?
The MMD is history. They should have disbanded as soon as they reached their goal, which was to introduce multi party democracy in 1991. This is almost 20 years on, and they have no economic ideology that is different from whatever economic fad there is at the IMF and World Bank.
In other words, they have run out of ideas. It is time for a new crew to take charge, have new ideas, disrupt old corrupt political deals and get the country moving forward.
#83 to 86 Good observations. I agree with you.
Iwe #93 at Sakala finshi alembele #83 that you agree with. Dont just agree analyse issues.
Hi guys, I just returned from zambia. At first when I told many brokers here that the pact will not work, some of you called me all sorts of names concerning HH and Sata. To be frank, the main problem is Sata. it is very sad that you just give death ear to things which are very clear. Many members of the pact do not know whether Sata has a degree which is the main requirements for the job. They were told to provide the degrese both of them, but sata never brought one. This prmpted UPND’s HH to say, your intention of fielding a person whom without the requirements for the job will lead for the pact UPND/PF to be disqualified by the chief justine…!!! Sata tried all his tricks for the pact to delay assuming the new constitution will not be ready at the time of the elections.
Sata knowing very well that the chief justice is very close to banda and will approve the new constitution, decided to go and shake hands with chief justice sakala even though a veryone knew his greetings were not genuine but to try and embarass the chief justice. UPND will go a head to field HH as it stands because Sata failed beyond any mind to prove to pact or JNC which is the supreme body of the pact. Sata still tells them that the new document will NT be ready soon..!!! but UPND did not buge and aged him to provide a degree qualifiation….!!!!! Knowing so well that his plan is caught decided to met HH privately to delay the announcement of the presidential candidate, if it fails he will settle for VICE president…and say young man I allowed him to lead..when he was knocked out..!! !
I think it is true Mr SATA has no degree because he has failed to show it to the public if he has one and which university did he go to.PLEASE TELL US we google it not just talking or pretending.
” To be frank, the main problem is Sata. it is very sad that you just give death ear to things which are very clear. Many members of the pact do not know whether Sata has a degree which is the main requirements for the job. ”
It isn’t. There is no degree requirement in the current constitution, and the NCC Draft Constitution isn’t likely to be enacted before the 2011 elections.
Therefore, ‘frankly’, Sata is not the problem.
no sch of political science at unza. Lecturer of political science
Sata you are a big problem yourself,that is why the PACT is headed for failure.The reason is you are the I KNOW IT ALL BY MYSELF.Jack of all TRADES and MASTER of None.
98, Everyone knows sata is a problem,, The pact looked at the various angles, like the one you said the old one does not require a degree..!! If the pact choose Sata and proved not to hold any degree MMD will not let it go..!!! what will happen??,, Are u saying JNC {joint national council} of the pact will call another indaba to say lets us choose other one..!!! be honest man..!!! SATA was seriously looked at to be considered to lead the pact but he does not have a degree in case the new constitution is anacted..!! It is the cause of these problems..!! Chiluba in ndola even told the cloud that shikuulu sata does not qualify to stand as a your presidential candidate..becuz he does not have a degree…believe from me…{ him chiluba..}….!!!! The old one I agree he does qualify… !!!
Nalilota ifilechitika!!! Politicians put their needs first, how do you expect Sata to be President when HH wants to be President? How do you expect HH to be President when Sata wants to be President? Its not possible. loleleni
The moment the PACT choose SATA mmd will just wait and amend or approve the new consititution just a few days before nomination then what will happen? IT is true this guy has no degree because if he has one let him have it filmed by ZNBC and then demand that let the degree clause go through if it was not targeted at him.Please face the reality.
May the PACT rest in peace. We new this was not going to work the very day it started. Now lets hope SATA will accept the results if he looses at the convention, Lets hope he will not use the CHAWAMA formular( WAFWA NAPANGA HH).
MMD is the only party which is not based on personalities and very democratic. imagine PF without SATA.
@101 Kizito,does KAFUPI have a degree? From which compound in zambia? Mulelila,muzalila benangu. PACT is coming like a rolling warthog. Even Bob has 6 degrees but his country is worse of the earth, may be in Mars or Jupitar. Genuinly speaking, i think the only degree holder has been Levy. Namano uale iticka. The wife(Golddigger-Maureen) just used to disturb that man and misdirect him sometimes. Within 30min of posting of this article, everyone is on it-looks like some one is scared. I guess is problem was a public issue and it is just right to handle it while the punlic is awake-very transparent-mind you there will be no convention in MMD-RB has already been endorsed by one GK.
Chao! & VIVA PACT.Now i can vote.
Okey, my comments are not being published becuase iam PACT. I will read the post then and will start my own ZAMBIAN TIMES-ZT tomorrow.
viva pact
we are all obsessed by the problems in the PACT………..could someone tell me what the problems are. I don’t here of what the problems are but only ‘the problems in the PACT’.
91 # PACT Contributor
I told you not to give these guys money. First of all, you are a Lawyer, a Businessman and have worked in Diplomatic Mission before. How could you have been dupped by these guys?
Remember the advise i gave you at Heathrow Airport on your way to Chicago Jan 2010. If I were you, I would not even post these comments on the cyber space. Call me,…
Bringing people together to achieve a common goal is not easy especially that we have different views,opinions and expectations.You need to research,analyses and implement.Choosing a leader for the PACT now or tomorrow will of course be good,but you need to put your cards and house in order.Removing the incumbent is not easy..you guys..i wish you understood what is going on in the background…
MrK
Many are the times I have said on this forum that there is no Pact and the much publicised launch was a fallacy but like always ,you have chosen fantasy over reality.However,the good thing is,there is still time to come to terms with reality and accept the irreconcilable differences that are sending your Pact imploding.
The logic thing to do is to allow HH lead the pact, since PF are still planning for their convention in November. Mr Sata should be Vice or else forget about the pact. As UPND will shall not accept the President who has never been voted for by his own party. Otherwise we may put a dictator as President.
Hey, knock it off and give HH a chance. We gave the MMD a chance in 1991. See how you’ve loved them since?
You all Blogers Dont Know what you are saying. SATA will be the Pact president and the only workable solution will be to have HH as Vice president. He stands a chance of becoming president in 2016. If it is the other way round, I can assure HH cant win. The guy has no political muscle or charisma to convince voters.
You like it or not with or without a degree or Without Pact SATA will context next years elections and will ultimately win. HH had entered into a political marriage with UNIP and FDD and still they came third while PF with SATA as their leader came second. Its only logic that SATA take the leadership of the pact as he leads a larger group and his political performance has always been positive.
Sata would not hand over Power to HH… Come on face the facts. Sata is all me me & me.
That is nonsense things will stabilizes, rubbing shoulders or differing will always be there. The difference is building the pact.
Pact is the only tangible altanative that guarantee a different taste of politics in Zambia, it is not easy for the two political parties to amonise all the political differences they might be facing in a overnight, but then with time they can, People wat you need to realise is that they have two different structures which they should try to accomodate each other, in conclusion the Peoples wish is the only solution and not Mr. HH or Mr. Sata, though they are building blocks which requires to follow the design of the beholder Zambians. Pride should be brushed off their heads
Let us not waist time on the PACT presidency. All know that Sata should be the president for the PACT coz he leads a larger party. Let us just strategise how we will win the 2011 elections and what policy we will embark on when in power. These are the thing we can now concentrate on as the PACT than these useless differences we are observing. Let us unite in order for us to remove this dull corrupt MMD gonernment. Zambia is so rich to be reduced to a poorest nation in the world. Please UPND and PF
113# You are underrating HH, Sata can not win this time around. NW, Southern and Western are non go area for Sata where is going to find the winning votes if he loses those to MMD if he is put as Pact leader. Those provinces are the winning areas for any party that should win the elections. Re consider your thinking things change with time.
117# All know that Sata should be the president for the PACT coz he leads a larger party. I disagree with your notion that “all Know” it is only PF cadres like you who wants Mr. Sata, even when the writing is on the wall that this time around we need “real change”.
Ah ah, so the pact is not fully dead. But we cannot postpone the funeral much longer, can we? Shall we say we meet Friday, day after tomorrow at Mutumbi?
Who would have thought Sata will be a factor today? MMD are s.h.i.t.t.i.n.g themselves! That is why you want to get rid of the abuse of office clause. Lelo lelo! Lelo lelo! Lelo lelo! Lelo lelo!
# 118 I do not under rate HH but I am speaking with facts. Am sure that u know that when UPND in 2001 came second to MMD???? while PF was came out number 5. in 2006 PF came second while UPND, UNIP and FDD under the new leadership of HH came third. In 2008 PF under Sata again came second only loosing by 35000 votes to MMD. From this statistics, I can safely conclude that SATA stands a better chance of winning compared to HH. You need to back your points with statistics when you say NW and Western province are no go areas for SATA.
122, I do not agree with you,, if Sata stands, MMD will win very easily. Remember those votes he collected, will not be.. If HH does not stands, Banda will get more votes now.!!! polically, copperbelt and lusaka will still vote regardiless who stands apart from luapula and northern provinces..so for HH he will lose 2 provinces,, Sata will lose 3 provinces..!excluding eastern province..belongs to banda..!!! Anyone of them will win Lusaka and copperbelt. From this calculations,if sata stands he will win luapula, northern, lusaka, copperbelt provinces. if HH stands he will win southern, western, north-western, central, copperbelt and lusaka..!!! no more mwanawasa fact now..!!! Believe me sata can not win any provinces apart from those he usually wins..!!!
This is why these UNZA professors are merely job hunters-Simutanyi Neo,Lungwangwa and the this Baala N’ombe. I wish LT would publich the complaints by doctors against mobile hospitals but i know they wont. So waste your time bloggers.
#122, Mbingu: what you are not taking into consideration is the fact that Sata increased his votes in 2006 because he took advantage of the confusion within UPND to grab voters who backed UPND in the 2001 elections mainly in Lusaka and other areas. Such voters are likely to go to default mode if HH stands on a pact ticket and back him. HH will also benefit more from from voters who backed MMD in 2006 & 2008 as a result of the Mwanawasa factor in Central, Western, N/W provinces and Lusaka rural. Copperbelt will be a bit dicy for HH as a result of the FTJ factor but it being an urban area would favour the opposition. Sata can do well as well but my only fear is that MMD will work hard to discourage voters in Southern, N/W and Western provinces from voting for by playing the tribal card.
#122, Mbingu: what you are not taking into consideration is the fact that Sata increased his votes in 2006 because he took advantage of the confusion within UPND to grab voters who backed UPND in the 2001 elections mainly in Lusaka and other areas. Such voters are likely to go to default mode if HH stands on a pact ticket and back him. HH will also benefit more from from voters who backed MMD in 2006 & 2008 as a result of the Mwanawasa factor in Central, Western, N/W provinces and Lusaka rural. Copperbelt will be a bit dicy for HH as a result of the FTJ factor but it being an urban area would favour the opposition.
Sata can do well but my only fear is that MMD will work hard to discourage voters in Southern(the fourth largest province), N/W and Western provinces
#122, Mbingu: what you are not taking into consideration is the fact that Sata increased his votes in 2006 because he took advantage of the confusion within UPND to grab 2001 UPND voters to elections mainly in Lusaka and other areas. Such voters are likely to go to default mode if HH stands on a pact ticket and back him. HH will also benefit more from from voters who backed MMD in 2006 & 2008 as a result of the Mwanawasa factor in Central, Western, N/W provinces and Lusaka rural. Copperbelt will be a bit dicy for HH as a result of the FTJ factor but it being an urban area would favour the opposition.
#122, Mbingu: what you are not taking into consideration is the fact that Sata increased his votes in 2006 because he took advantage of the confusion within UPND to grab voters who backed UPND in the 2001 elections mainly in Lusaka and other areas. Such voters are likely to go to default mode if HH stands on a pact ticket and back him. HH will also benefit more from from voters who backed MMD in 2006 & 2008 as a result of the Mwanawasa factor in Central, Western, N/W provinces and Lusaka rural. Copperbelt will be a bit dicy for HH as a result of the FTJ factor but it being an urban area would favour the opposition.
Sata can do well as well but my only fear is that MMD will use divide & rule tactics to discourage voters in Southern, N/W and Western provinces
#68, which Kulima tower lot am I hanging out with? “I left that additional problem for you to spot out” my @ss!!!
#122, Mbingu: what you are not taking into consideration is the fact that Sata increased his votes in 2006 because he took advantage of the confusion within UPND to grab voters who backed UPND in the 2001 elections mainly in Lusaka and other areas. Such voters are likely to go to default mode if HH stands on a pact ticket and back him. HH will also benefit more from from voters who backed MMD in 2006 & 2008 as a result of the Mwanawasa factor in Central, Western, N/W provinces and Lusaka rural. Copperbelt will be a bit dicy for HH as a result of the FTJ factor but it being an urban area would favour the opposition.
Sata can do well as well but my only fear is that MMD will work hard to discourage voters in Southern(the fourth largest province), N/W and Western provinces
# 125,your kind are reminiscent of kulima tower where insults are part of normal conversation.
… and the Poor Finishing party leader will produce a Cabinet line-up from his hip pocket:
will Minister of Defence Hon. Mark Mushili, MP
Minister of Finance and National Planning Hon. Geoffrey Bwalya Mwamba, MP (Grade 12)
Minister of Home Affairs Hon. Dr Guy Scott, MP
Minister of Health Hon. Jean Kapata, MP
Minister of Foreign Affairs Hon. Mumbi Phiri, MP
Minister of Justice Hon. Wynter Kabimba, MP
Minister of Local Government and Housing Hon. Col. Jerry Chanda, MP
Minister of Communication and Transport Hon. Willie Nsanda MP
Minister of Education Hon. Prof. Frank Bwalya, MP
Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services Hon. Mwansa Kapeya, MP
Minister of Mines and Minerals Development Hon. Chishimba Kambwili, MP
Minister of Science, Technology and Vocational Training…
#123 I see you are basing your arguments on assumptions and not facts. All you are saying is “will will will” just take time and look at HH political graph from the time he became president of UPND and look at SATAs Political graph as well. If you have done statistics am sure you understand that there is what they call a trend. The importance of a trend is that it helps you predict with a higher confidence level, what the next outcome will be. Mind you we are looking at a situation were HH supports SATA or SATA supports HH. You will agree with me that sata only needs a few people (35000) to convince for him to beat MMD while HH would need 300, 000+ votes for him to win. If Sata becomes pact president the job will be easier because the man has what we call ‘charisma’
#123 Mbingu: I can see you are also basing your arguments on assuptions. You are ignoring historical factors and the fact that politics is very dynamic. In politics you can be a hero today and a villian tomorrow. Now let us look at Sata: in the 2001 presidential elections he was 3rd. In 2006 he was second and increased his % vote by a large margin, why? On of the main reasons is that Sata capitalised on the division within UPND and literally took a good chunk of UPND voters to his side. That explains why also all MPs in Lusaka were UPND in 2001 & almost all Lusak MPs were PF by 2006. Sata used Sakwiba Sikota to portray HH as a tribalist & novice in politics. Come 20008 Sata decided to build up on his political fortunes to turn the presidential contest as a two way horse race between RB….
Smuggler’s Draft is on Zambia’s side and does not see PF the presidency with Sata heading that party. MMD will win [again] because the opposition is not united and it is currently ruling. Either party would do well to groom new candidates and promote them. The HH song has been sung for too long, Sata has had the ability to effect Zambia since independence [been in power in each and every single administration], his time is up.
Zambia needs to move forward and not dwell on the past; who will lead us into a middle income country, who will breakdown ICT barriers, who will focus on infrastructure? Who knows, that party is the party Zed needs. Voters also need to be wise enough to pick parties based on merit and not tribal affiliations. :-w
…cont from #29..and himself. Using the Post newspaper he launched a vigorous campaign to encourage HH supporters to throw their weight behind him if they wanted to remove MMD from power and stop RB, who they portrayed as a tribalist, from becoming president. This discouraged a lot of UPND supporters from voting. It encouraged those UPND supporters who hatred MMD with a passion to vote for Sata and those who disliked Sata to vote RB. In 2011 things will be different. A lot of people have come to know HH better since he has gained a lot of political experience. Most voters who are disappointed with RB’s failure to continue with the Mwanawasa legacy are more likely to vote for HH than Sata because UPND has similar policies to MMD than PF. Those and other factors would give HH a better…
I do not agree with people who are suggesting that a new leader should be adopted to lead the pact. It is better to choose between HH & Sata since we know them well. I believe both Sata and HH have very good leadership qualities and have what it takes to lead Zambia. You just have to read their biographies to understand that they are geniuses in their own right. It’s unfortunate that we have a lot of doom mongers who do not appreciate heroes in their own home. All what we need to do is to ask them to tell us thier vision on how they would develop the country. Instead of dwelling on personalities and what tribe they are let us for a change challenge Sata and HH to tell us their vision for Zambia and then we can choose the best between them through a primary contest.
The opposition is not about PF-UPND pact but other political parties as well. If every Jim & Morris wakes up and thinks they can be President of this country then we are up for another 20plus retrogressive years. All political parties must for now suspend all personal interests and look at what is at stake come 2011. If we do not work as a team then we expect to see the same short-comings everyday. Believe you me we will see extremely more bad governance than we are seeing. The issue is to unite all stake holders just like what we did in 1991. Sata and HH are not a solution to daily suffering of the people but we are the solution that will choose a leader that will get our children out of this type of poverty we see everyday. We need a hands on leader for the sake of tomorrow.
# 5 thank you for your observation. i however, got reservations as to whether you could provide me with answers as to why some1 who wont last long should lead? dont you see this as costly? its like running a business and put old fleet vehicles to be on long routes and new ones on short routes. definitely your business will be non profitable as you will just be incuring losses on repairs.
Ladies and gentlemen.. part of the reasons why most of you still live in diaspora has got to do with govt consisting of old folks. these people dont seem to have outright solutions for the many problems we the young face. Guys its like going a long journey by putting an old vehicle (smoking off course) in front of a new one with clean vulves hoping to beat time. are you sure of arrival on time… Quick development need young leadership that will deliver without stress. gentlemen/ladies, these old folks like sata hardly encompass critics as evidenced in his sacking of so called ‘rebel’ MPs. he is scared of going to a convetion to pave way for the young. dictator he is. young leaders best!!!
2010 : Even if a new leader or party comes up we will end up with the same mess. We are our own enemies because we spend a lot of time discussing people and not ideas. What we need to concentrate on is challenging parties or thier candidates to expalin their manifestos in details to enable us understand what their vision is. Unfortunately the first thing we focus on is what tribe one is and why we can not choose a leader from that tribe. This is what is killing democracy in Zed and we MUST all make an effort to discourage such behaviour.
Let us for a change challenge Sata, HH, Milupi and RB to debate their vision on Television so that we can choose the best among them. It’s up to us the ordinary folks to make this happen otherwise we will continue sneaking incompetent dinosaurs into State house.
#129 stop cheating the people in 2001 lusaka was mostly for FDD and not UPND. if HH was a candidate 4 UDA coz of populalite why can’t SATA be now. no selfishiness ba yama!!
i am wat i am : before you start arguing a point it’s better you check the facts. Go to the Electral Commission of Zambia website and you will confirm that most people in Lusaka voted for for UPND in 2001. The facts are there for you to double check.
The UPND/PF pact arrangement is different from the UDA arrangement. FDD or UNIP had no chance of forming govt in 2006. UPND on it’s own, if given a favourable media coverage, can give PF a tough run in 2011.
Just a remind in case you have forgotten, PF was also in a pact with Sikota’s ULP in 2006 and after the elections Sata swallowed almost all of Sikota’s MPs.
sata can never have solutions to the pact, he is like a person trying to solve trigonometry wanting to follow the long way of doing it and in the process forgetting even the question.
during mwanawasa’s time i had support for HH but he has just put me off the line hence, the reason for me to go for RB in last elections. sata out of topic, he will just bring more suffering to our country with his medieval style of leadership remember he was the first man under democracy to introduce violence in chawama and kabwata after the by elections. viva milupi
#129 I understand you have a strong mind to defend your opinion. However, I wish to let you know that Zambian politics are based on the individuals ability and the region he or she came from and not the party and its manifesto. Am sure you will agree with me that in 2001 Mazoka was president of UPND and the man had Charisma and this made him come out second. When HH took over UPND has been going down with the same manifesto used by Mazoka.
I know you will defend your opinion, but I suggest that we agree to disagree.
#142 Mbingu: A house built on rocky foundation can not stand! This is a simple fact. A good nation is built on good systems. We need a leader or party with a good vision, a good vision will translate into good plans and good plans will lead to good actions to improve the welfare of people and develop a nation. If we as Zambians consider charism and tribe as the most important factor in chosing a president then we shouldn’t complain when we end up the Chiluba type of leaders.
My hamble opinion is that HH is better than Sata & Mazoka, as a leader, but unfortunately most Zambians look at him with tribal tinted eyes and as a result can not see the real man.
Mbingu: just to add another point…Mwanawasa was not charismatic and he came from one of the smallest tribes but he managed to win the presidential elections twice. This is proof enough that charisma and tribe are not the only factors in Zambian politics.
Didi…da..di..dah…!
IT`S ONLY IN ZAMBIA WHERE CHEQUERED ARTICLES LIKE SATA CAN OFFER SOLUTIONS AND PEOPLE BELIEVE IT
The debate goes on , but the fact remains that HH took over the reins of UPND after Mazoka’s death and people did not know him and lost a lot of ground , people of western were annoyed with him coz they thought he grabbed the position from their son SAKI. but the dust has settled and the people of W/P have come to realization that SAKI is failure who could have made UPND distinct by now. Before he could reorganize himself there was presidential by bye election and he got the third position. UPND has got back W , NW ,Lusaka rural and some part of CB and southern central province,most of the pipo that don’t like MMD are likely to go for UPND than PF
This time around PF will still lose in Nakonde, Mbala, Isoka, Mpulungu ,Serenje ,Mkushi and has also lost some grounds in Luapula going by the recent held local gvt bye elections in (luapula) CB and Lusaka. Those who think that PF can go it alone are either blind or they don’t like Sata.MY advice to the old man and the Zambia pipo is that let us all encourage the PACT to work if we are patriotic to our nation.let us use our heads and not emotions and tribal inclination. Zambians is bigger than any one of us.MC should either negotiate with HH ,although he lacks that skill, if he has to live beyond 2011 or he allows HH take PACT presidency and he takes up VP ship that will still be wise decision than dying of depression after losing for the 4th time