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Nationalisation of mines opposed

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Luanshya Copper mines

The Mine suppliers and contractors Association of Zambia says nationalizing the mines is not the answer to the current problems in the sector.

Association president Fanuel Banda is of the view that mines can still operate buoyantly in private hands.

Mr. Banda said Zambia has learnt a number of lessons from nationalizing industries and can therefore not afford to gamble with mining conglomerates.

He observed that the benefits of having mines in the hands of the private sector are enormous.

Mr. Banda told ZNBC in the Copperbelt Province mining town of Kitwe that Government should instead address some of the grey areas affecting the mining sector.

He has advised Government to revisit the laws on the Investment Act which should dis-allow the externalization of money raised from the mining industry.

ZNBC

editor
editorhttp://www.lusakatimes.com

156 COMMENTS

  3. #1, of all the pictures why puting luanshya mine plant. All because it is closed. Any way we will survive we are used to it. God less luanshya.

  4. i pose a question to everyone………….are the mines run better now unlike under ZCCM? If no…..i think we just nationalise.

  5. Republican President Banda said, “Nationalise”.
    Association President Banda said “No Nationalisation”.

    It is evident that these Bandas are confusing the nation!! 😕

  7. Whats wrong with Nationalizing Mines if through it,Govt is able to safe guard Jobs for its people? Unlike the Situation we have @ hand where we’ve massive Job Loses on the C/belt?
    Can someone educate me on this please!
    I mean on the disadvantages of Nationalizing the mines. :o:o

  11. PRESS CLIP

    President Rupiah Banda has said the govt will soon nationalise selected mines in the country to avoid massive job losses. When asked just what criteria the govt would use in selecting these mines, the President replied, “I don’t know yet”.

    :-w

  13. Mines were run better under ZCCM except for the spoon feeding of the Miners with free napkins, mealie meal and the like which made the Miners feel like they had their heaven on earth.

  14. it is better to run the mines ourselves .what difference does it make, all the moneys are taken to their country`s of origin,look at nkana stadium right near the mines but has it benefited from the so called investers,the copper/copper money passes right over it.

  15. Has MMD as party have policies to follow? Its like every presdo in office though from the same party come with his own dreams. You sold them out yourselves and today mukuti nyeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. Any way we should blame ourselves for failing to push the boat to plot one. If you can`t manage UNZA what about the mines? shame on you. :((:((:((:((:((

  16. MR F.T. BANDA YOU ARE A GENEOUS HAVE STARTED LIKING YOU FOR WHAT YOU SAY THAT WAS GOOD WE DONT NEED TO NATIONALISE THE MINES

  17. As a short term measure, nationalising mines especially those which are closed is welcome. Afterwards, hand them over to capable Zambian businessmen/women. I yearn for a day when we will have strong Zambians teaming up together and taking control of these mines.

  20. I feel this issue of nationalising cannot work because of the corrupt tendencies we have inherited from Chiluba. What we need are serious control measures to be put in place that will control investors free-will hiring and firing tendencies. The point raised by the suppliers asociations are quite valid but when you look at them closely you will realise that they just want to safeguard their own interests so that they continue to drive Hummers in Chingola/ Kitwe.

  25. Can someone please educate me on the ‘annoying reliance/depedance on the so called foreign investment/investors. Why does the Govt. of Zambia make it so difficult for capable Zambians to invest in large corporations? Zambia has produced credible businessmen/woman that can locally help create jobs and develop the nation, yet opportuninities for investment are characterised by tonnes of gatekeepers. Why are we so afraid to entrust Zambians? 😕

  27. We can nationalise the mines that are being abandoned. The issue is they should be run as autonomy mines with very little state control, They should be run as a business. Then all the proceeds will remain in zambia and a large chunk pumped into the mines4recapitalisation.Zambian suppliers & contractors that meet the grade & proven(must be the only ones to deal with them).realistic pricing of goods & services must be the norm.all appointments must not be based on partisan lines.We Zed Engineers available to run them.

  29. PRESS CLIP

    Finance Minister Situmbeko Musokotwane has confirmed President Rupiah Banda’s announcement that the state would nationalise selected mines in the country. He could however not give specific details saying, “Let’s leave that to the President to announce after he has consulted the electorate of Chipata”. :-w

  30. # 19 mwaiche TIONGE its the same PONYAX nika new resolution tukwete for this year hopefully kaka baza. Natumfwa ukukula.

    sudan is leading 1-0

  32. #4 EX SHIMAIN. You cannot trust GRZ to run the mines. In Unip days Kaunda merged RCM and NCCM to form ZCCM and relagated purchase of mining machinery to no 3 behind buying cars for GRZ and Unip pay roll. He even employed OP officers to operate in the mines just in case some mangers failed to comply.This lead to to low production as the production tools were run down. Retrenchments were dreaded as miners had no houses of there own and seperation packages were too little- you were luck if you got 1m Kwacha. The only problem we have at Luanshya is that GRZ has been selling that mine to non mining traders who run away at the slightes sign of problem. I know what am talking about; I ve worke

  33. Zambians!! You should first listern before saying things that are different from what was said by Banda. He said “ nationalize those mines laying off works or closing”. He did not say ALL MINES. No, no!!!
    If I might add, in Africa Nationalization is the ONLY way to ensure that nationals benefit from their natural resources. Full stop. Examples of this has just been said by this guy: Externalization of profits. Look at NIGERIA, its one Africa country producing OIL. But the benefits NEVER trikle to the population. They are as poor as any African Country, if not worse. ZCCM was ok. Its only problems where individual behaviours. Otherwise, the idea was perfecto!!! It benefited Zambians: Employm

  34. Cont. I have worked for RCM ZCCM and now am with a private. I see the professionalism of RCM in these new mine owners not the ‘ANIMAL FARM” type of ZCCM.

  38. mwaiche moze shabepapo ine.

    pa blog they know me. Ask pama election results nalelasa. Listen to the voice of wisdom. :d/:d/:d/:d/

  39. I think when this man is talking, he is talking from without. He does not have any mine to operate that he can point at to say mines are operating well in private hands. We have been through both types and we have learnt lessons. We can buy back the mines and give it to the care of ZCCM-IH. The government will be able to dictate on the terms of reference for the for investment when need arise for partnerships. Luanshya sell to J&W was fishy and always Luanshya’s has been fishy. J& W was not the best bidder to LCM but they got the mine and got Chambishi as mbasela???? It is at times like this when we go into desperate negotiations and get deal that not favourable.

  40. Chakanga bakha, nkuku siyingamele. The government cant manage what the private sector has failed. Let them not even try it because things will go sour like what is happening to ZESCO and Zamtel

  41. Foreigners came, opened the mines, dug up our minerals, sold them & kept all profits. Now, tell me why this is good for us. It seems we enjoy remaining poor in Zambia.

  43. @39, I don’t know why we don’t learn lessons. After the BINANI sad story lessons should have been learnt to get the best bidder.

  44. and zambia is dreaming of taking part in 2010 world cup. hahahaha

    lets just use the cash to make more tours and increase pay for politicians

  47. Kuyamba Vintu Vimayamba bwino poor finishing ndiyo lenga.RB Iam not going to blame you awe,I will blame tha pipo who are advising you to nationalise the mines.After all you have just joined MMD.Mwandi Dad ndiwe wakayele.Katele and all the old members of MMD please dont advise your friend Ma Rabbish.You know very well why your so called investors are leaving the mines now.No more mineral muma Mines and you now want to put RB mundaka.No it doesnt work like that. [-x[-x[-x[-x

  48. let us get the mines back if foreigners can’t run them.Infact it’s a good apportunity to take them back.A country can’t develop without it’s own resourses.Sell them to zambian people who have money.let every zambians have shares in them.what is needed is govt to support them.Govt is there to create employement for da people.
    Mr banda take the mines back.Zambians are the ones who run the mines even if they owned by foreigner therefore they can’t fail if u govt support them.
    cheers!!

  50. I agree with 27, instead of waiting for another “infester” who will run the mine for five years, make his/her profit and leave workers and the country in a dilema

  52. Mines everyday. We can`t talk about other activities which can bring development to this country. Mr RB talk about something else plz.

  53. the problem is with our leaders who seem not to learn they offer very attractive incentive to these so called investors(thieves)after they make their mane they run away and leave our country with deep holes that will just be flooded.shame on this govt wait for satamania in 2011 tho it will be tolate to redem the situation”’

  59. Look at both sides private and national. The mines in the ZCCM error were standing and no song was sang about low price of copper. We have not seen the benefits of privatisation as a general populous but only (him) the suppliers because they are driving expensive automobiles in Kitwe. If they have done better othey could not be crying but they have no idea of how to keep and invest the money. Balelila pantu akapunda nakashinka. Can we entrust the mines to these chaps? No way.

  62. **==**==**==

    today warton sudan used players from darfu region,nowander we are done!!

    issue ya accident yabipa,is it a bus ,truck,car or chopper??

  65. #45. Tionge

    There is no football in Zambia. Not long before 1980, I used to know all the Zambian Players by heart like Peter Muhango, Ement Kapengwe, Kaiza Kalambo… Nowardays I do not even know a single player because there is lack of seriousness by the players themselves. I like the spirit being brought in by Marcha Chilemena of seeking talents! If this continues, Zambia will be back on its fit by 2034.

  67. This Fanuel Banda is really a silly Zambian. The big economies are all bailing out their ailing industries. If the mines were in the hands of Zambians, I would have said no to privitisation and seek other stimulus packages to save the industry from collapsing.

    But look, those foreign investors came to Zambia, got the mines for peanuts, received tax rebate concessions, made billions of dollars under our nose, externalised all the money and now that the prices have gone down, they say they will close the mines. That’s the ugly side of entrusting your country in the hands of foreigners in the name of Foreign Direct Investment.

    Please, privatise those mines.

  68. I think this scenario has given us an opportunity to seriously come up with what really is viable for our mines. We tried 100% GRZ ownership, the results were rampant misuse, no re-capitalisation, falling production efficiencies. We have now tried 100% Private ownership, we only saw ba Zungus flying in and out, siphoning all the profits to God knows where! Now, probably we need something in between, serious partnership, 51% GRZ, 49% with proven investors. Not those who are quick to pack at the slightest hint of falling prices, and NO INDIANS PLEASE!!

  69. Let me tell you the biggest problem with Zambians. Very few Zambians if at all any would do something good that wont be benefit them directly. Its really difficult to know if Fanuel Banda is speaking genuinely or he is just trying to safeguard his own interests. Could be he knows that if government came in, some of the loop holes where he is benefiting now will be closed or someone else will benefit and not him. In my view I see nothing wrong with government taking over until a suitable buyer is found.

  70. Is better to nationalise and call the Zambian experts who working outside to come and work home and pay them handsomely.I have a friend from Chile the world no.1 copper producing country- they nationalised and now the economy is booming -they can afford free eduction,health and many more..

  71. Let us look at the ability of Zambia as nation to run the mines and not just the interest of protecting jobs because jobs could be protected if strict policies are put in place to the mine owners.The so called investors never employed our people when they made a lot of profits but now that the price of copper has come down on the the international market they cut our people’s jobs,shame on MMD and their weak policies.

  72. Its sad that the people we entrusted our mines too can not even save the mines from collapsing. It would be better if govt could get them back.

  73. People, why are we complaining? investors come into this country,day in and day out. They do wrong things to our people day, and day out. Yet, day in and day out, we allow them into Zambia. I have never heard anyone say NO to an investor! So, someone please tell me, why are we complaining?

  74. #40 from your name i have a clear picture of a handsome indian or coulured guy…but from this comment in venaculor [-([-([-( am offf

  75. Lets try nationalization as the only solution for the moment why not if big economies like the USA have done it before for some of its major companies to safeguard employment. Ba youth nabafyashi bachula.
    The problem is Zambians do not believe in themselves, all they want is to work for other countries and people who later get rich and leave you and your families suffering. We have got the brains to do so and i feel its high time our Engineers and Economists sat together to plan the future of these mines seriously without looking at personal interests.

  76. #73 Ba Moze

    We are complaining because of the weak policies which the gorvernment has put in place which allow investors to terminate the contracts of our beloved people.If our policies are tighten we would not see job loses the way we saw them recently.

  77. Personally I think we Zambians are too nice. We allow people to stump on us. We can run our mines ourselves. Seriously, I don’t think there is much that comes out of copper compared to other minerals but even that little is whiskered away from us by the so called investors. Its not fair. I don’t know why we get the idea we cant run our own affairs. I think its better we nationalize the mines. Even if we mismanage them, thats better than letting foreigners benefit our natural resource.

  79. # 76 Sharp Steve-Kitwe

    I feel you man. But then we should be pressuring govt. and not the investor. What we need to understand is that the investor is here to make money and will use every available loophole to make profits. we the zambians, ndife bopwalala! Tulibatulo sana! there is no way a country can be coned day in day out for years! what is wrong with us?

  82. #79 Ba Moze

    Ba Moze,investors do not bring them selves here but they are brought in by gorvernment and they agree on certain conditions which in this case I refer to as weak policies.Therfore the blame is on the gorvernment and not on the investors.Si ndife bopwalala ba moze koma ma learders because they sign contracts they do not understand,quite right you and I have no access to those contracts but when things go wrong we will be blamed as zambians.

  84. What we should not forget fellow Zambians is that no person in the world can perfect your home. If you are expecting a starved man to come into your home and make your home better than your dreams then you must be in for the rest of the life. Let these Mines be run by Zambia. Where we fail, we have Qualified engineers from UNZA and oversees. I suppose they can manage. Unless you tell me that we are incapable of running our economy!

  85. #82 Sharp steve-Kitwe

    Yamveka iyo mudala. I guess there is sense in what you are saying. Kansi where have you been? Ukamba mushe maningi mwana. :)>-

  86. #79 Ba Moze

    The problem we have is that people in the rural areas such as shan’gombo,masaiti,vubwi,sinjembela,sikongo and many others understand better economics than us,as a result they impose leaders on us.

  87. Chambishi ex-miner,
    Sharp Steve-Kitwe,
    Alpha Male,
    The issues you guys are raising are very pertinent inspite of your holding seemingly divergent views. We need to understsnd that no investor will come and undertake developmental projects in Zambia unless s/he stands to benefit. If these issues are not put forward by govt as must dos by the investors, the end will always be the same,as has happened to LCM. Secondly, Zambians are capable of running their own businesses. Only problem is there is no autonomy for those managing these companies. Too much interference from politicians.

  88. Ponyax uli bwino mwa,how can those who were watching die. Are you happy. Ba Moze, I’ve just heard from a friend that 11 people have died in a road traffic accident at Kabangwe. A rosa mini bus which was coming from Kitwe to Lusaka and a truck which was carring some chemicals.

  89. We villagers do our part by producing your food. You town dwellers are the ones to implement conditions and terms of contracts.

  91. You educated town dwellers, dont you see where we are coming from? We may have the brains but do we have enough money to invest in those mines? Government involvement in those mines should be limited, let private investors do their job.

  92. Certainly I don’t doubt the calibre and technical competence of Zambian human resources. We caN manage our own affairs. What killed ZCCM was that the company had administrators and not business managers. THE COMAPANY WAS NOT RUN AS A BUSINESS ENTITY BUT AS CHARITABLE ORGANIZARTION. You cannot have over 45,000 employees all not paying for electricity and water supplied to their homes. The world over these things are paid. That is why after houses were sold to miners, majority of them accrued huge bills on water and electricty.

  93. No one has heard of Chile complaining despite prices of copper falling and it being the largest producer. Why can’t we copy with pride and look at Chile’s system and start moving toward where they are? Just thinking.

  95. An investor comes to make profit as someone has already pointed out but government has laws and framework under which mining contracts are executed. The problem is the monitoring aspect of these tools that is lacking. Capacity to monitor mining operations is an area which needs attention. There several propositions to look at in order to achieve viable monitoring of mining operations. The current laws are, I believe, more than adquate to give sufficient legal backing against non compliance of standards but what is lacking is the monitoring side.

  96. We are learning very slowly indeed. The risk of GRZ running the mines is as great as the Auditors General’s report and backlog.

  97. It would be extremely difficult to expect GRZ to engage in profit making business directly. For me It would almost appear that, in doing so, GRZ would be taxing itself.

  98. #93 Uwakwisano

    You are right on that one,but is it possible for copper producing countries to unite and set prices for themselves?As for it does not make any sense for farmer who has worked very hard for his harvest to have his crops priced by a consumer.

  101. Sharp Steve-Kitwe

    You need to go back in Zambias history to learn vital issues on that aspect on copper marketing and pricing. Valuable lessons you will find.

  102. #98 I meant

    As for me it does not make any sense for a farmer who has worked very hard for his harvest to have his crops priced by a consumer.

  103. Sharp Steve-Kitwe

    Your logic is very clear and welcome. The magnitude of the undertaking as you deal with bigger issues become such that you will eventually have to handover the marketing to specialists! That is the status quo. There was at some point in Zambia when a locally based Metal Exchange was being proposed but whose chances of succeeding were seen to be almost nil.

  104. The price of a commodity is I believe directly propotional to how marketable it is. If the demand is high, the chances are that it will sell higher. Competition to sell Metal is not just the domain of the producer country!

    Consumers are out and about looking for the best price around and if that price is offerred by LME, they will go for it.

  105. Yes Ba Weston. We are not saying Zambians are not capable. What we are saying the same guys that opposing to nationalisation cant do anything. Most of the mine have Zambians who are Engineers and managers. The basungu bring people in accounts and in all those elite posts. Chambishi is run By the COO Hirah Singh who as worked in chambishi mine for more than 30 years, There is Watson Lumbwe as the chief engineer, There is also Chama kapambwe Engineer. They brought in Dr. wezi Banda to run the smelter which he failed because since he was given that responsiblity the smelter was only making loses. Typical Zambian style. What im trying to is that there others who can do it and other who cant.

  106. Nationalise the mines now before its too late. BUT only qualified miners should run the mines, NOT political appointees. AND AGAIN, IT SHOULD BE ON CONTRACT PERIOD AND NOT WAMUYAYAYA LIKE DURING THE KAUNDA ERA.

  107. nationalize mines and restrict remittances abroad and see all “confidence”, built during the ten years of Chiluba, fly away. It seems Banda is dumber than I could have imagined.

  108. The reasons why GRZ cant possibly run business enterprise are as varied as you could possibly imagine.

    In the first place for it to do it, GRZ must completely decide to run the business as a private investor. This would involve completely detaching itself from the notion of Government. That in itself is simply unachievable. Let profit making business men take that responsibillity. Grz should just make sure that contracts terms and standards are adhered to by mine operators.

  109. Chambishi Ex Miner – I differ with you regards skills availability in running a mine, Zambia is SEVERLEY lacking in skills, especially world classs business skills. I don’t know what calibre of people run the mines in Z right now, but we have a serious skills gap, much worse than in the western world. Mining isn’t about just digging a hole in the ground and pulling out a mineral. That copper thing is just a commodity that is priced abroad and Zambian miners cannot impact pricing.

  110. No. 7 LUSAKA, I ve seen that during the ZCCM days the Copperbelt Province was different from what it is now. With the privatised mines atleast we have seen the best pot holes in Luanshya, Mufulira, the once upon cleanest town Angola, or sorry Chingola, Kitwe not forgetting Ndola. Oh and the dual carriage way. During the ZCCM day the zimandolas were based right in CB not Lsk. [-(

  111. Awe naimwe ba torontonian, what confidence? Here Nyamasoya has a point. Nabeba sana money ba kapoli aba. Lets get the mines back.

  112. The Blackman’s Child

    Those high days were a residue of the days mining operations were at their best. Zambianisation wrongly implemented killed the mines.

    Do we want to go back that way. The high times of Zambian airways was when families of employees had access to any destination of the world!

  113. I am wondering what people think about these two options that we seem to be in now;
    Which of the following is better?
    1) To close the mines and start looking for investors. Until investors are found the mines remain domant.
    2) To nationalise, protect the jobs of the miners while keeping these mines active in the economy while we look for investors and sell these mines at an appropriate and more beneficial time.
    Life is about weighing options, and the quality of decisions reveals what type of material leadership is made of.
    In my view, nationalising these mines to make them continue to function as viable business activity and keep the current jobs is a step in the positive direction.

  114. There eventually came a time when noticing that operations were grinding to a halt GRZ started pumpimg money into the system. They had to do it to maintain jobs and tapping into what then seemed an endless pocket of cash. In the course of all that very few people knew that all was not well. Those were the high times.

    Why should a civil servant employee bother when his pension is assured. That is the basis of failure of GRZ running the business of mining.

  115. Fine, option 2 sounds more viable. All we need to do is to wait about 2 years or so until the price of copper is normal i.e. $6000 and upwards and then dig the copper and sell it again until the price of copper falls back to almost zero. Then we can look for these fake investors including Indians.

  116. Fine

    As ever, yours is a good question. Whatever GRZ decides, it must be clear to them that it is not the business of Government to make profit, theirs is to ensure that Jobs are created through policy formulation besides their many other duties.

    Ultimately, your question borders on essentially on Government ideology.The essential responsibillity of monitoring mines would have given GRZ enough headway to prepare alternatives!

  117. To keep a mine operating for even one month is such a high undertaking. It requires heavy liquidity input, before you know, people are protesting for higher wages!

  118. #113 Fine!

    Both options can work depending on how hard the economic crunch hits us. Let me explain…sorry I have to go now. I will explain when I come back.;)

  120. Whatever the consequencies of the current situation, I means as regards those mines, GRZ must be clear on its ideological position.

    We dont need to be shuffling between undefined ideologies.

  121. #115 Real Brain

    Bazungu nibochenjela that is why our economy will never ever be better than theirs,the price of copper will never shoot to their dis advanatge because they are the ones in control of London Metal Exchange.

  122. Nationalizing has it’s pros & cons but right now i haven’t seen any assessment or recommendation in the Zambian or international press about what is best for our govt to do.Something tells me let the govt nationlize but when i think how ZCCM was mismanaged,i say no & when i think of how ZCCM helped our country socially & economically,i say yes,i think somehow we need big heads to come together & do some forecasts & assessments,is the industry still viable enough for the govt to commit itself to,will the prices of copper go up again,if so then we will benefit if the govt takes over again & job losses will be averted.

  123. Africa is the only place on the planet where foreigners are more powerful than the indegenous people, give them miners to Zambians but you need laws in place that will protect employers and employees and really that is all you need. Why can’t we run our own things for a change. It seems we are always afraid of running our own things that is why a lot of Zambians will always be poor. We are blessed with a lot of natural resources like minierals, water, good weather and yet we still can’t maxmise our potential with all these things, something wrong with the way people think in Zambia maybe we need to change our education system and see how we will start thinking.

  124. #123 To some extent i agree about the mentality of us africans but if your comment relates to mines then i say that no,we are not afraid to un our own affairs,mining involves huge costs & initially you start with losses so the major hinderence to why our people can’t take it upon themselves to enter into such major investments is capital & technical know how on some aspects of operations,african banks would not take a risk to lend money to any african investor for such understakings that is why it’s either nationalization or sale to major investors with the right financial muscle.With checks & balances brought in in the last 10 years,the govt can run mines better this time around.

  126. Thnaks guys for you great contributions to my question and views.
    I must also point out one issue here that I believe the govt should never stand polarised ont one ideology.
    I believe that they need to weigh circumstances and situations separately and implement what will be to the best interest of our nation, our economy and the plight of Zambians (of course not necessarily demands).
    Now if you look at the US govt, both the outgoing and the incoming, in view of the crising regarding GM, Ford, and Chryseler. Their consideration to the bellout request wast that govt would inject capital and carry out management takover for a period. Yet US is principly biased towards private driven economy.

  127. Fine

    Bail outs dont necessarilly mean taking over. Bailout essentially mean infusing liquidty into business so as not to collapse. In case of collapse of business, jobs are lost and a ultimately the economy of the country is affected. Indeed there is a question of state funded bailouts now challenging the whole capitalistic view of free enterprise by this. However, in most of these bailouts, Government does not enter into acvtual involvement in the enterprises.

  129. #121 Sharp Steve

    What you call “kucenjela” kwa Bazungu is in reality shear robbery. “Ubucenjeshi” in Bemba if you like. It is hard to resist opression when the weapons of resistance are in the hands of the opressor but if more Zambians utilise the investment opprtunities in their own country, things might change for the better.

  130. 😕 Interesting. The head of MAZ is for private ownership of the mines, but his remedy to the present situation is to not allow expatriation of funds.

    That would ‘attract’ a very different kind of mining investor, one that is in Zambia to invest in the Zambian economy, and sees a future in making money from the Zambian economy in the long run.

    The problem I would see with that is that we are also setting up substantial foreign ownership of the Zambian economy in the future.

    If ownership of Zambian mines was restricted to Zambians, that would not be a problem.

    I don’t see a way out of this without strong government involvement.

  131. Where will GRZ get the money to own and run the mines. They couldnt even manage to fully fund the elections. Stop dreaming, RB.

  132. 127. Anonymous
    I wonder whether you followed up the debates over the issue.
    There are two things which you need to know about the bailouts in US.
    1) Bailout of the financial sector (mind you sector, and not individual or particular private firm). This was a general boost of the entire esector.
    2) Bailout of GM, Ford and Chryseler who had made specific request for capital injection, and not the entire motor industry.
    The govt consideration was to do;
    1) Inject the requested capital into the three.
    2) Carry out management TAKEOVER for a given period to revitalise and create viability in the same.
    So what you mean bailout is not takeover in view of the US issue?

  133. I agree with #68 Uwakwisano!Just look at Botswana!Debtswana(De Beers Botswana)is 50% De Beers International(the largets diamond mining company in the world) and 50% Botswana Government.On top of that Botswana Government owns 15% of De Beers International!MEANING THE BOTSWANA GOVERNMENT DOES NOT DEPEND ON TAX FOR IT’S REVENUE BUT SHARES IN THE PROFITS!Why don’t we learn from our neighbours?And know this:AN INVESTOR IS SOMEONE WHO PUTS IN THEIR MONEY TO MAKE A PROFIT-PERIOD!DEVELOPMENT OF ZAMBIA IS OUR BUSDINESS!WE HAVE TO NEGOTIATE A DEAL THAT BENEFITS US-…..IT IS UP TO US ZAMBIANS-NOT INVESTORS

  134. 131. UK-Zed Observer,

    ” Where will GRZ get the money to own and run the mines. They couldnt even manage to fully fund the elections. Stop dreaming, RB. ”

    Where do ‘foreign investors’ get the money to own and run the mines? Oh I remember, they borrow just enough to get things started, and then use their turnover to fund their costs.

    The reason the GRZ can’t fully fund elections, is because they do not receive taxes from the mines, thanks to the Development Agreements.

    In 2004, the mines exported $4 billion (about $2.4 billlion in profits), and the GRZ received only $ 6 million in taxes, total.

    That’s why they can’t fund elections.

    Getting money is not the issue.

  135. nationalization is the way out as we all need the loot from the mines? our (fortune seekers)politicians without intergrity nor shame are the only ones benefiting…might as well nationalize the mines.

  136. #122 Jigga

    Copper prices will surely go up as China and India will continue to grow massively after the global recession.

    ZCCM was great. I worked there for 4 years. Managers were certainly competent.

    However the biggest problem was political interference. If can keep politicians away, and leave the company to run professionally and commercially, then we can have a successful Zambian mining co. But are politicians ready to do that. Look at how much they are involved in Zesco, Zamtel and Crude oil imports. They control everything.

  137. 133. Kachokwe-Dublin,

    ” MEANING THE BOTSWANA GOVERNMENT DOES NOT DEPEND ON TAX FOR IT’S REVENUE BUT SHARES IN THE PROFITS! ”

    A step in the right direction, but we could go farther than this. How about the GRZ owns the mines, but hires (or sets up) a privately owned mine management company to run operations?

    And put it into law that there is no interference with operations, no appointments from the family tree, not even improper contact between the state and management?

    If they do their job right (on specification and under budget), they can get a SMALL share of the profits they helped generate as an incentive.

  138. #136 contd

    In 1998 Indeni burned down. It only reopened in 2001. Znoc was forced to import refined petroleum products by road and rail to supply the whole country. Traditionally Znoc imported crude oil for Indeni to process. Apart from losing money due to Fire at Indeni, Znoc incurred huge costs by impoting fuel products. But Govt did not allow Znoc to adjust fuel prices because the 2001 elections were round the corner. Result, Znoc got into serious debt and collapsed in 2002. That is how big political interference is in Zambia.

  139. 136. UK-Zed Observer,

    ” However the biggest problem was political interference. If can keep politicians away, and leave the company to run professionally and commercially, then we can have a successful Zambian mining co. ”

    And you just went another step further than I did. If we can make parstatals run efficiently and without interference or corruption that would be great. All we now need is politicians in power who are uncorrupt enough themselves to put that into law, even in the Constitution.

    SAUDI-ARAMCO is an example of a very successful parastatal – they keep Saudi Arabia running and have made it a very wealthy country.

  140. Mr Banda, the UPND president HH has already mentioned this data in an exact manner, I think.

    Please, sell the shares to the mine workers and other indigenous Zambians who will feel for the fellow Citizens and then wont cut down numbers of workers.

    ======
    LT 2008 Award Winner. =;.

  141. #138 contd

    Another study case is Zesco. The company cannot charge tarrifs that reflect costs because Govt says NO. Then how do you expect Zesco to have enough money to invest in new power generating capacity. No wonder you have blackouts. Investors look at the tarriffs, to see whether they will be able to recoup the funds they put in. Currently, if they set up a power plant, it would take them more than 50 years to break-even. The tarriffs are not attractive. So what do we chose? Low tarrifs so every Jim & Jack can afford, yet have blackouts? Or higher cost effective tarrifs that ensure we have no blackouts? Ask the Govt.

  142. Zambian are so shallow. No one asks where the money is going to come from to Nationalize and run the mines. THE TAX PAYER ! It is amazing how illiterate Zambians are. We need to improve our universities so we can have people who can think and understand economics. Read Ghana web sites you will be impressed by the deapth of the knowledge of contributors.

  143. #139 MrK

    You are very right. The biggest problem we have in Zambia, and may be in Africa, is that our politicians don’t think they are accountable to people. They make themselves dons.

    Imagine, the Donald Chanda, when he was chairman of Znoc, operated from State House. FTJ used to summon managent any time, day or night. To politicians, parastatal companies are there as vehicles to achieve political objectives. No matter how competent you are as a manager, if you boss and employer is a politician, forget it or else you will be fired in a radio announcement. I am sure you would rather feed your family. Political risk is the biggest evil in nationalised companies.

  145. 143. UK-Zed Observer

    ” Political risk is the biggest evil in nationalised companies. ”

    That also goes to the independence of the civil service. We need a civil service that hires and promotes on merit. Let only the head of the civil service be appointed by the president. Let’s promote people through civil service exams, the way the Chinese have done for thousands of years.

  146. We must renationalize the mines and run them better than ZCCM did. The problem is that we have leaders who do not understand how complex systems work. This is why they are quick at selling our assets to Azungu because these leaders are too ignorant to manage anything. We may nationalize with good intentions, but our leaders will eventually cripple our mines. Look at how the late president crippled Zambia state insurance in favour of the indian owned company. Even in banking, he favoured the indian owned bank instead of zanaco. This clearly shows that we need to have constitutional points to force our leaders to focus on Zambian entities daily instead of favouring foreigners.

  147. #133 Kachokwe – the diamond industry business model is based on controling the price of Diamonds. DeBeers control the entire diamond industry value chain, from mining to retailing. They give diamond merchants annual quota’s meaning DeBeers have a massive inventory of diamonds and they release only a “desireable” amount into shops because they want to ensure that a diamond is forever. Copper mining countries like Zambia on the other hand cannot afford to stockpile copper in order to keep prices high. AND, your copper is sold before you even dig it up because it is purchased upfront and the people that own whatever stocks you are mining will determine what to pay.

  148. Even if Zambian mines were nationalized, the govt would probably be digging copper from the ground for years to satisfy commitments made. Either way, nationalizing the mines would send a clear signal that property rights and contracts are not respected in our country and this would result in a withdrawal of any meaningful investment and the kwacha will plunge to the 7000ZMK/1$ mark if we are lucky. By the way, people confuse Zambia for Zimbabwe so careful what we do.

  149. 132 Fine. The bail out of financial institution in US was meant for Govt to takeover the banks as way of controlling the banks for other reasons which only prophecy students like LT 2008 award winner may understand as we approach the new world order which is almost done. We are only waiting for final issue to deal with Climate change which a religious leader will perform to achieve their goal. Other wise I support Mr Banda on his comments over natianalisation of mines.It is going backwards.

  150. FIRST PRACTICE RUNNING THE ONLY TWO UNIVERSITIES B4 YOU THINK OF EXPROPRIATING THE MINES. IN FACT NATIONALISING THE MINES WOULDN’T BE THE BEST OF IDEAS. THERE ARE SO MANY THINGS THE GOVT CAN OWN: TRANSPORT NETWORK (ROAD, AIR AND RAIL), AIRLINE.

  151. if it means nationalising the mines which are threatened with closures why not?And this banda is talking about banning externalisation of products, does he think these guys he wants to continue running the mines will want that after all they are in it for the money

  152. Those who dream of the mines being nationalized are wasting their time. Where will Zambia get the money to do that. Right now the country cannot even construct power stations.

    Zambians are so shalow. We need to improve our educational systems so we can get intelliegent people who can analyze our situation.

    Look at Ghana they had elections the results came and every one accepted the results. In Zambia you have Sata and his mad followers trying to undermine the credibility of the Elections Commitee. Zambia will never get anywhere until we have well tgrained people in charge. Look at the way Obama has assembled his team. In Zambia tribalism will never allow that.

  153. 152 Cheese, good points I like your reasoning. Zambia missed opportunity to put in leadership the team which could have made the differance, the people chose the second best and left the best. We should blame ourselves.

  154. 146. Better Zambia,

    ” We must renationalize the mines and run them better than ZCCM did. The problem is that we have leaders who do not understand how complex systems work. This is why they are quick at selling our assets to Azungu because these leaders are too ignorant to manage anything. ”

    What would be needed, would be constitutional protections for parastatals. Also, there should be a go-between between the politicians and the parastatals, with powers of his own to protect them from interference, powers themselves conditional on parastal performance.

    I don’t see why mines can’t be run by the state, if there is enough distance between the state and the government of the day.

  155. Maybe it always comes down to depoliticization of the civil service. But they could be run on merit.

    Or, the government could create or hire a mine management company, while keeping ownership of 100% of raw materials.

  156. Excellent blog right here! Additionally your web site quite a bit up fast! What web host are you the use of? Can I get your affiliate link to your host? I want my web site loaded up as fast as yours lol

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