THE London High Court has increased former president Frederick Chiluba’s indebtedness to the Zambian Government to more than US$58 million from US$41 million after adding interest and costs.
This came to light yesterday during a video conference court hearing between Chikwa Court in Lusaka and the Royal Courts in London where Judge Peter Smith was hearing submissions on quantum payments for Chiluba and 19 others.
This is the case where they were found liable to have defrauded the Zambian Government of US$46 million. The increase in Chiluba’s indebtedness means that he has to pay back $58,293,106 to the Zambian Government.
The London court also increased former Zambia Security Intelligence Services director-general, Xavier Chungu’s indebteness to $58,112,727, while that of Access Financial Services director, Aaron Chungu was upped to US$27,193,136.50.
The submissions increased Lusaka businessman Faustin Kabwe’s indebtedness to US$53,757,867, while that of former ZCCM chairman and chief executive, Francis Kaunda went up to US$100,575.
In the same submissions, the indebtedness of Swiss tailor Basile Boutique went up by US$500,000. The money spent on Chiluba’s clothes was originally US$1,815,736.
Congolese businessman Raphael Soriano’s debt went up to US$29,609,502.
Judge Smith also ordered for the evaluation of Chiluba’s Kabulonga house, whose amount should not be part of the US$58 million.
The judge also dismissed Mr Kabwe’s application that he be allowed to get 2,000 Pounds per week from his assets because he did not justify how he was going to be using the money.
Judge Smith also observed that although Chiluba said money deposited in the Zamtrop account on his behalf was from well-wishers, he did not specify who the well wishers were.
“And as a result, the Zambian Government is entitled to possession of his property,” Judge Smith said.
The submissions continue today. Task Force on Corruption chairperson, Maxwell Nkole said the proceedings were open to the public and defendants based in Zambia.
WOW!!!
The Matrix is working, the figures are growing everyday. As per 11 July, 2002
So u want to forgive this man who even corrupted the judicary including the chief justice. Shame!! Zambians should know the kind of leaders you put in power.
Recipient/Details Amount (US$)
FJT Chiluba, payment to tailors 1,200,000
FTJ Institute 36,000
Helen Chiluba (FJT’s daughter) 90,000
Miko Chiluba (FJT’s son) 3,000
Fred Chiluba Jnr (FJT’s youngest son) 10,000
Chief Justice Matthew Ngulube 168,000
Bonaventure Mutale 7,000
Katele Kalumba 8,000
Vernon Mwaanga (former Minister of Information) 360,000
Stella Chibanda (former Minister of Finance official now adviser to one of the World Bank Directors) 3,500
Shasonga (Ambassador to the US) 1,200,000
The most painful thing here as all this happening Millions of Zambians had no´food to eat and there was no medicine in hospitals. Council workers, nurses, teachers went without salaries for months.
My heart bleeds….
We are in danger of repeating ourselfs on this matter.He stole,he sold what wasnt his.At this point its not the amount.He just has to admit and cough up.Chew,Chew,Dress,dress,(he never even looked nice! HELLO YOU NEED HEIGHT MY DEAR). thats what he did.I feel so wicked towards these people in power who are me,all for me pipo.ITS NOT YOURS.Fish the others out and be done with them.
#2# I think i need to see a doctor,feeling very weak afer seeing those figures.I think its my heart?
#2 Tell us, how much went to chuchu’s 2001 elections campaign??
The noose is tightening! Finally, we are being vindicated. Zambians are about to get the day of recompense Chiluba proclaimed had come on his inaugaration in 1991! We shall not tolerate the idle posturing (threats to sue people and talk of plots) anymore and daily feigning of illness coupled by dramatics such as fainting episodes, and evacuations to South Africa at our expense. As Judge Smith has said – it’s payback time and $58 million it is! It’s a shame that even our local Judges were chewing with him no wonder the local case is moving at a snail’s pace – remember tricks used after the 2001 Presidential petitions, by the time the case was being concluded FTJ’s term was almost over.
#6 AM
Ask Chiluba. I am sure he would Know, since he is the one who financed the 2001 election campaign.
Fred is in big trouble……$58million worth of trouble.Interesting that someone asked for permission to withdraw 2000 pounds per week for his “upkeep”!! That translates into about 17 million kwacha PER WEEK !!! “Upkeep” is getting rather expensive don’t you think……i wonder how the rest of us have survived on a fraction of this gentlemans “upkeep budget”. I don’t see much sympathy coming their way on this one.
#8 Ba CITIZEN, ala FTJ mulwele, how can I ask him, the man cannot even attend court cases. He is on sick bed and no visitors are allowed, especially after hearing that the figure has increased to $58m, my God!! help him. Am sure #2 knows the amount that went to chuchu’s campaign in 2001.
#10
I am sure he can scribble the amount on a piece of monogramed FTJ paper, for your attention.
Chiluba go to hell and burn into ashes. You stupid unrepeatent thief.
How much of this money represent the costs and how much was stolen. This court and lawyers have not done a good job and saying exactly how much has been stolen. The entire judgement was only for $46m in total but now the figures seem to be out of world put together. They (figures) look really suspicious, these pipo must do a good job rather than seemingly playing with words and figures which risk loss of credibility. No. 2 has attempted to produce a list but has left out a lot more known expenditures such as LPM elections, mmd motorvehicles, BK facility, treatment abroad of various pipo including including his own cronies as well as foes such a LPM, mama Betty, donations to “churches” abroad, third term debate, and of course miscelleneous payments to “friends” of OP.
Now since it is purpoted that all this money was under ZISS budget, how is the current money under ZISS being used. Have they reduced allocation to ZISS since it doesnt really need this kind of money or still misused?
Yes #2 u should finish off your list, because the list u have produced does not amount to $58m. By the way are these figure millions or thousands, because if they are thousands, they dont amount to the above mentioned millions. I am sure u left some like #13 mentioned.
I should befriend FTJ maybe he could lend me or rather grant me some my money. If you cant beat them join them!
Puff adder you wanna get down with da thief? Ha ha ha ha the short thief an’t gonna get the billions he is demanding from his neighbor. What kind of a neighbor is he to demand that much? oooops. Trying to raise the $58m via fraudulent suits or tryna divert attention from theft case/conviction is not gonna work.
End of era, end of ftj.
let kafupi pay.he is feeling the heat,no peace for kafupi,UZACHIONA LELO.
ali muchibe-to all suppoters and that chewed our money,we are coming for you next.HOJA.
Dont cheat anyone by saying that corruption is being fought when there is corruption everywhere.even Lpm is corrupt.can someone explain to me about the millions of kwacha in ministries which have misappropitated.Lpm must remember these words that what goes around surely comes back around.so he shouldn’t pretend to be corruption free when he benefitted from it.
Wow, stupid and court naive Chiluba thinks he can get some life out of HH? Let him talk to Fred who wrote the post. Know HH and Fred are our current and future heroes. Shame to the thief. I want why honourable Simeza and Sangwa cling on the wings of this shameless thief and gebnocider
Thou Shall not use my name in vain!
Do not publicly use and quote God and yet privately do Satanic things!
Ask Jim Swargart and Fredrick Titus Chiluba!
The donations to Churches were a masquarede.
Whether LPM is corrupt or not, that is another court session. Right now FTJ has to answer, only Sata can encourage this behaviour. Uncharacteristic of Sata, he is very quiet this time, like a vocano waiting to errupt with vernom!
Every tribe must condem theft of such propotions, else free all those thieves from our rotten prizons!
Just hope judge smith will come back and say ”sorry l forgot to include his suits and shoes on the list of things to be seized” . FTJ should be left matakolukoso, he deserves no mercy, hes one son of a gun who never cared about the welfare of his fellow citizens. I wish Regina like confused Pule could repent and remarry Mwanza. As for you Zambian judges, shame on you, take a leaf from judge smith and conclude the criminal cases now.
I agree with HH that it was like giving a monkey to look after the maize field. Twabikile ka Kolwe as a supervisor of Zambia. Of course invited other Monkeys to the party.
The chap should just humble himself and plead with the country for mercy and empty his pockets with whatever change he has been left with after all that matrix of distribution. On time Verah said that Chiluba was capable to pay over billion.
Bus conductor … shame Chiluba FTJK
These figures cannot match the 95million US Dollars
pumped into Meidien bank and shared amongst the
crooks in the bank.These criminals in whatever shapes
they are must be pursued too.FTJ went on record stating
that an estimated 95 million dollars had ben fraudulently or irregullarly drawn from Meridien by the bank’s shareholders.This money must come back to zed.So already it is 95million + 58 million dollars which is 153 million dollars.From this sum we could give UTH 10 million$s,UNZA 20 million dollars etc.Cursed be the thieves,the zigebengas,the masholi..
That’s nearly a whooping $230M, shared by FTJ and his five ‘friends’…….and the calculations haven’t even finished yet! This might as well be equivalent to Zambia’s two months import cover in gross international reserves (GIR)for 2005. Need one say more about what sort of a character we had for the 2nd republican president.
Joe 13# I just set the ball rolling yourself you didnt not mention the amounts in your list. If you want to more ask Nawakwi she was Finance Minister and she was the first one to call FTJ a thieve. I wonder why we have to go to London to seek justice when we have people who worked in this ministries and departments. I have to tell you that daughter of FTJ she was leaving in the Mansion – I mean Villa. I can still remember one when I visited a friend who called this girl you should not hang the phone because I need 5 minutes to come to the sitting room. You know even then in Europe cellular phones were not yet for everyone. Why get a Villa on the first place where you pay thousands of pounds per month from stolen monies. During the FTJ era Zambia was like Animal farm ” All animals are equal but some are more equal than other”
l now understand what Vera meant when asked for 400 million USD in compsenation after her divorce.
1 to 24.No matter how you will cry about chiluba to give back the money he stole,you will never eat it.Why?because right now we have so much money but the economy is not improving at all.Only to see MPs doning well at the expense of people who voted for them.Believe me you when the money is recovered it will make lpm levy to make more trips that don’t bring any development at all.
Lets fight for the consitition and bring a fresh leader with fresh ideas or else we’ll continue writing on the blog and achieve nothing.
#17 gk just SHUT UP!!! that money wont make you rich.just stop ukundosa insuko sha-white mumablankets nokupepa ifyamba fyaku Malawi.
Africa twasebana, kuti twaleka shani bamwisa passing judgement on innocent pipo?
Bane listern careful sana sana, chuchu nomba yalamuzandila pantu some of the money was just in 2001 campaign te? elyo na maize from that katanga governor was used ukubosha voters, ask VJ, he will tell you. you know muchisunga you say ati “dont throw stones when you are leaving in glass house te” elyo na bayashi ba kapwepwe batile ati “umulandu ngawapita pa-style namukulubula kupita pa-style. Nomba bola yalawama…chuchu in trouble, ala na BP yayima oversize.
Ba FTJ dont worry it will pass.
#28 Indeed it will pass for FTJ in prison with no money
#28 Ba Jose makamba ala bengi bakasebana ngatapa ukulanda Shi Tito.
#28 This is proper FTJ speak! When he stole all that money, he must have counted on this kind of blind loyalty. Fortunately such are now a small minory in today’s Z.
It’s pay-back time!
#29
We know Chiluba very well, if he had anything to say which could change the course of events, he would have already let off his mouth.
Ninshi ababene bashi TITO bakalandila muchifungo mwa?
#29 ka citizen plz wimbala, just go and see Dr HK to give you medicine ya insomia iyo wakwata kumulandu wa insuko sha-white. ka citizen give respect kuli bashi Miko, bushe iwe kuti watemwa someone insulting your father nangula bali nindoshi te? citizen i think you must go and take a shower, ulenuka icibe sana sana nomba you have even forgotten nokusamba kufyamba ifiulepepa ifya nonstop. be a good citizen and start ukulandako ifikweteko ubuyo.
#27 moses, i salute you. we need young men like you on this blog not ishibutuma kwati ni chi gk and citizen.
Kuku where are you? ala baice bafyamba bapulamo kusele. are you still kuma order te?
#31 its not about loyalty its about considering issues objectively.why cant judge smith accept that chichi was given that money by well wishers.it does not matter wether they are not mentioned so long as some gave chichi that money is he not entitled 2 withdraw it.
What Chiluba has allegedly stolen may not be as much as that which Chiluba knows was stolen by the people who worked and stood around him. In this case government should use Chiluba as bait to bring out those he knows have stolen. The Americans are good at making deals with some criminals so that they can get more criminals. Let’s make a deal with Chiluba that we know he is an alleged thief and we want him to reveal those people he worked with. If he does, he will be spared by the wroth of the courts and if he does not take that deal, he will be reduced to poverty.
# A volcano does not have venom. A volcano produces lava. I just wanted to make sure that Chiluba is not scared out of his socks because we may have snakes near him but not volcanos. Thanks
#33 Ba Jose
Jose you are just a clown…a jester to amuse serous minds.The only intellectual property you seem to posses is a cheap vulgar mind.
Bushe tamunika ukuba ba fuzi ba kwa chiluba ?. I wonder what will be your children’s opinion when they read your contributions. You are shame to your family
iwe ka citizen wayambako insele te? i think wali major musele sana. or you just Remnant baka alice leshina pantu umutu umutulu teti alesabaila ngaiwe. mwaice grow up and be like #27. citizen na chi gk muli ndoshi shamupamba ishakosa imitima kwati mabwe. be humanist and feel pity for others.
#30 AM, let them give a chance ba shi tito in the court of law. a lot will be revealed and chuchu nomba tali pa easy BP ili very high, lest wait and see ukutuleya.
#37 Ba Citizen – pantu imwe nimwe ba fuzi wakwa Chuchu elyo mulefyaya bonse tube bakwe. Mwailasha!!
speechless!
#37citizen, kashi its true inwebo remnant wakwa Alice Leshina mwa? no wonder unukilla icibe.sad you are now in that sect yakwa chuchu where you have to give your soul to devil. plz mwaice repent and join reputable churches. i hope citizen you got my rich advice
Natina aba bakolwe twa votele! KK warned us,his words are still fresh in my mind about this MONKEY,’shi tito’.
You people leave the old man alone. God forgives you. So why can’t you do the same as well. Come fellow Zambian.
#39 You must have a mind of your own apart from being Chiluba’s Zealot you still continue to be that rogue Jose’s FUZI.Yangu ubulanda.
Chiluba stole more than what is listed and demanded. Our Attorney general did a wonderful Job by taking to court cases which could easily be prosecuted and guilty verdict arrived.
We expect more cases thereafter, including those of brown envolopes and the slash fund account may be auidted.
# 41 ka Jose,
I thought by engaging you, I provoke some intelligent dialogue from your. But I see that you a proper rogue or bum. You are as incoherent as a they come when drank with Chibuku.
You are a shame to your siblings
yangua ili futu #44!!! try to reconcile your body and mind to starting thinking ngomuntuse. otherwise uli futu lyamupamba without direction.
iwe chi citizen, have you forgotten ati you used to queue up pa ZCBC for SABINA soap from 5hrs to 18 hrs.Nomba wayambako insulting the person who brought dignity in Zedians te? plz grow up and go and take up a shower to remove ulukupa(bad bad bad smell) from your body.
Is there no law against stealing, self-enrichment through public funds and corruption? Are there no provisions for these in our constitution? … I’m asking because looking at the level Chiluba and his hedgehogs were stealing and knowing that LPM is refusing to have it changed then where are we heading to as a nation? In Zambia, people steal from us, we know it and they still come back to steal again. We can have more churches than the Vatican city and more mosques than the Kingdom of Arabia and the standard of our lives will continue to drop and our worries multiply. It is not enough to pray, nay, but to act and take positive steps that will show that we are serious to help ourselves as a people and then heaven will help those who help themselves. Perhaps we are yet to realise that religion is one of our weaknesses, not because of upheavals attached to it, but because we always turn to God for help rather than demand our rights and privileges from those who rule us unjustly either by force or by deceiving us to get our votes.
#44 Ba Citizen mwilaponta bakamba, ifye ngatwatampa ukumutuka tamwatemwe. Twamichindika namwe mwatapa imiponto. Ubumfumu buichindika ubwine. Ngamulefyaya ukuti twingile mu language yesu ba kaponyas tefundi sana.
#Out of 49 contribution yours Jose and AM are nonsensical.
If you must know anyone can be a bum if they wish, but not everyone can be a member of the intelligential.
What a fools paradise.
So much for the two of you, so long!!!
#49 AM this insulting business is still prevalent?Why cant people change for a while?That is why Africa will never develop, because even morality you want a whiteman to come and put guidelines on how to be moral.Will we ever do things on our own ?Come on gentlemen lets be serious with what we say and let us talk business, propound issues that will put zambia into forward gear.Let us stop begging and those with debts like KK and FTJ please let us pay with diginity.Sir Isaac newton in his third law of motion said’to every motion there is equal and opposite force exerting on an object’, let us put opposing views with substance not halucinations.Zambia needs to come out of this quagmire through home grown policies.The G8 group are not any better than us but have taken advantage of our stupidity and lack of seriousness in dealing with issues.
Nkhata mwaice am on commercial break,AM well done atleast you have been consisted.BaJoze be firm with irresponsible contributors, we must see change
Here we go again. Pandit … From your comment #9 i figure you are still in africa. I spend more than $1000.00 a week and i’m not even rich i just work.200P is not much to even talk about. DONT WANT TO KNOW if you dont have all the facts and figures dont publish half facts. Your total figure #2 is $2,969,500.00 we are talking $46M your figures dont even come close. You realise that this can be misleading. The issue is not about the figures Bwana Smith can increase the #s all he wants. The question is is it right for the government to prosecute its citizen a former president for that matter who is not in exile in foreign court? That is a million dollar question and that is what is mind boggling. This issue has brought our judicial system into disrepute, It has exposed how inept the prosecution is and how you can escape prosecution for as long as you are in bed with the powers that be. I’m sure part of the $46M was used to campaign for LPM in 2001. Also settling the K250M debt for FRA.
#52 Check your figures correctly, it is not 200P BUT 2000P…
Ba Joze 47# Where were still sleeping which sanity did FTJ brought. For you lineup for salad, or soap at ZCBC lies in the intergrity of Dr. Kaunda who refused on 1st May 1987 the loan of 300 Million dollar the IMF wanted to impose on Zambia. Do you that 1986 the Kwacha was 1:1 with the pound. From this day it started losing value. Kaunda made a fixed exchange rate of 8 Kwacha to 1 Pound. This meant to devalue our currency. You the well what followed attempted coup, SAP which left your uncle, aunt, father, mother cousins, friends neigbours jobless. The hour vote for change and you know where you are today if you got sick and you have to the operated the Theatre have no air conditions the risk of losing life is very high.10 years no air conditioning in the operatioN room at UTH. Citizen 50 # I agree with you Ba Jose and his friends are good at insulting and seeing the hour and we want change even it means next day they will go on empety stomaches.
Lot of sense SAGE. Not only did it bring our judicial system into disrepute, shame and a sense of incompetence, it has also brought shame on our president, who is not only the executive arm, but a qualified lawyer undermining the Zambian justice system. This is exactly what happened to Zambia when South Africans were coming to Zambia with their cars and selling them in Zambia willingly, going back to SA claiming insurance on the cars as stolen, then INTERPO would come and get them from Zambia. The losers were Zambians and the South Africans had double gain. The radical Mugabe said no to that nonsense when INTERPO went to Zimbabwe. He said he borders were enough to handle the screening. Unless Mwanawasa’s credentials as a lawyer a fake, only then and then only shall we agree that foreign justice is better than Zambia.Zambia is not a sovereign country, unless Mwanawasa can prove that it is. Why judge your own president in a foreign country? Zambian man. Muzungu anikonde
u blacks a fu*ked. all lazy and when u get da power u start thiefin’& fu#king. HIV going 2 finish u 1 by 1.
#51 welcome back kuku. what these pipo like gk and chi citizen dont know is to apply the principle of quantum mechcns in practice ie “The Uncertainty Principle of quantum mechanics states that both the position and the momentum cannot simultaneously be known with infinite precision at the same time” implying that we know the outcome of judge smith but to listern what ba FTJ will say in court. a lot with come out of this case and chuchu is wishing not to have sarted the case. ala momba bola yakasakasa, chuchu(LPM) ali muchipuki.
Kuku,be in charge, naya mukubaze.
#51 welcome back kuku. what these pipo like gk and chi citizen dont know is to apply the principle of quantum mechcns in practice ie “The Uncertainty Principle of quantum mechanics states that both the position and the momentum cannot simultaneously be known with infinite precision at the same time” implying that we know the outcome of judge smith but we have to listern what ba FTJ will say in court(not in press). a lot with come out of this case and chuchu is wishing not to have sarted the case. ala momba bola yakasakasa, chuchu(LPM) ali muchipuki.
Kuku be in charge, naya mukubaza.
Guys ignore white Star…He is not worth a breath.
I would like to make a few observations and offer an opinion of my own.I totally agree with the principle behind the fight against corruption but have questions about the methodology.I notice alot of contributions are either motivated by hatred towards FTJ and some are by the geniune concern for the nation.My comments are targeted for the latter and I believe intellectuals will concur with me that we need to put a system in place that would make it hard for any leader to abuse public office.We need to have the separation of powers namely,the Executive,Judiciary and Legislature.Allow the wings of govt such as the ACC to do their job without any Executive interferance.Otherwise,we`ll just see these demagogues taking each other to court without any meaningful outcome.
#52, what you spend per week, is errelevant here so long you have earned the money legally. Now FTJ stole that money, he must face justice at home or abroad it does not matter for me. This man is an excuse of a former president and has lost his dignity.
Mr Chapi good points but would explain how you would implement the total separation of powers? In theory there is a separation of powers already, indulge me
#54 kalanda kasikolo !!!mwati vyakulanda nakulanda , wetatawe!!!in 1986 kk introduced concoction that made a lot of zambians to have grey hair especially to our beautify ladies by introducing “tip top” and denying them cocacola. alot of marriages broke coz of waking up at 03 hrs to queue up at ZCBC for chikondia soap and the chaps called “by air” boys were busy breaking marriages. We are happy that is the thing of the past pantu ba FTJ balimbaza.in 1986 the kwacha was never equal to a pound, kwana apa wabepa and not even equal to a dollar. chosa data with facts not ubufi.
i can give you some clues on statistical nondistribution mappings. if you see a person in neighbouring country with grey hair chances are 2/3 to be a zambia coz of “tip top”
Ba Joze you are rulantic who doesnt even know how to read statatics. This lost sheep born after 1991. Dont expose your stupidness here many people have already complained about you shall fish you out. Some of us we are IT flicks. You have benefited to these FTJ regime we shall ask GI to prosecute you too. You should discuss sense here and educate others rather than dishing out insults. You dont even know your personal history. Lusaka Times take care of this Ba Joze he is denting the image of your media else someone will come and close it. We want constructive discussion here which can help the nation move forward. This goes to white star who wish others dead because of his greedness. Trace him and give him a warning this racist.
Sage(52),don’t make too many assumptions as to the place of residence of some the contributors.Elite(53) thank you for correcting our dear comrade Sage.A word of advice to White Star(56)….go to another web page you have no place on this one.An earlier contributor highlighted the speed with which the Smith/FTJ case was concluded.Interesting that our own judicial system cannot be as swift and decisive. We have similar laws guiding our courts and we observe the same rules of evidence…..why is securing a conviction or acquittal in a Zambian court a lengthy and protracted process???
I have noticed that some contributions here are driven by hate for FTJ. FTJ regardless of what what LPM has made it look like has done a great deal for Zambia. Infact arguably more that our founding father KK. I agree that some money may have misappropriated under his reign just much as under KK’s reign (unless someone proves to me otherwise – probably it explains the existence of ZAMTROP since 1960s). This country has been embarassed for no cause at all as this case has achieved nothing but self-preservation and political survival by LPM. For our so called donor friends, of course theirs’ is to show that development or a lack of it in Africa is due to corruption, especially with their economic prescriptions having undermined our development. Their countries are full of corruption but its only “corruption” in Africa that stops development. The figures mentioned in this case are highly suspicious, they dont just add up. We shall have to hear from the others when they defend themselves.
Numner 2 nalasakela,there many more who should follow
him.This the same thing Elisa Mpondela has been to to
the Inter company race money,For 8years no report on he has use the money.The government is now taking wrong
people to court ati 11’000’000 from the Inter company account was not accounted for.Thee part is that the government don’t even know the same Inter company account being refered to ati that is where the money from the ministry was put.Olny Elias alone to date know
about all the 6 accounts.What i have seen as a old man
athletics in Zambia has gone to the dogs. Am now 65years and i can not good any more,all what is the athletes to be looked after well.Inter company money is
hand to the mouth of Mpondela and girl friends.
#60 Chapi,our land has been inflicted with vernomous constitution.This document has been manipulated to suit ones needs.During Kapwepwe time KK amended it to bar other people from challenging him and this he capitalised because he was priviledged with knowledge to understand better than the rest.FTJ manipulated this document to eliminate Super Kenny through article 4, today the bone of contention is article 79.Until we get a constitution that will be an all encompassing legitimate structure for governance,all those dreams of having an independent ACC,judiciary etc will still remain a pipe dream.you and me must stand up and go and vote when the referundum comes, dont shy away this is the only way out to cut these excessive presidential powers which have abundantly corrupted these guys we send to plot 1 and do things as they wish.We need a time frame in which the new document must come into force so that 50+1 becomes binding for 2011.Minority rule(MMD) must be a thing of the past.
#54 Can you kindly interpret what you written.I fail to understand what you are trying to say.Seems you have a point.
#54 Can you kindly interpret what you have written.I fail to understand what you are trying to say.Seems you have a point though
KUKU #68 I applaud your reasoning and also for adding quality and substance to this blog.
#64 iwe chi easy ulindoshi umubisana sana and you dont even know how to write statistics “check line one” are you still doing metric? or you are writing sup exams in stats te? i can be your tutor and mode you to a first class student.
everyone knew that in 1986 kk ruled zed on experiment that ruined zed and it took time for FTJ to put things in place. i think you have ifwi mumutwe te? why being hypersensitive to the subject? my dear go black to look young and keeping appearance.
Forget about Ba Joze he is arrogant he will not listen nisele fwe. Kaunda was never imposed on us we made him what he became. He has resigned many times starting from 1969 and you called him back becos he is a good leader. Over line one my I just mistipped. I hope you understood what I put across after this is internet language. D-Day Ba Joze is 1st May 1987 Zambia refused conditions imposed on it. The suffering started and Zambia was isolated the same way Zimbabwe is sanctioned and isolated today for refusing to be underminded. All what they west will do is find something and use it for you start fighting each others. Today Zimbabwe is being labelled of abuse of human rights, police beating etc. You were the Zimbabwen Dollar is today. Useless. If KK was not intelligent Zambia would have ended like that.People be careful so no one can destroy the unity that prevail in Zed. Those who want to get thru there own interest they will use all means to bring comotion in the country.
Am so disappointed with kuku and ci Jose. Why do you guys still support a sakalanyongo. People where busy dying in the hospital whilst he was busy splashing thousands of dollars on vanity stuff. Did you know that his foolish kids used to smash defenders, BMWs,etc like toys while your relatives in your village used wheelborrows as abulances. I have no sypathy for thieves. Infact he deserves a blazing tyre for a neckless.
Gentlemen,I too believe that both KK and FTJ messed up a number of things during their tenures.But if you look at this critically,any person we elect as President will literally do the same thing because we have failed to enact a Constitution that would limit Executive excesses and provide checks and balances through legitimate institutions.Example,LPM has stuck to stolen vehicles and used dubiously obtained money to pay the FRA.No one has challenged him coz the constitution is weak.Honestly,in this day and age,is it necessary that the President must appoint an Inspector General of police?How would such an indidvidual operate independently?As long as our constitution remains what it is,we will continue being exploited by those individuals occupying political offices.One Max Dupree once said,and I quote,”WE CAN’T BECOME WHAT WE NEED BY REMAINING WHAT WE ARE”.These are wise thoughts that should guide our people in determining and fighting for the good of our country.
KC.. The answer to the important question you have raised is federalism. by definition: “Its a system of government in which power is divided between a central authority and constituent political units”. We dont even need the IG. All we need is a provincial Police Chief elected by the people as the case is with the Sheriff in USA. Look at our tax system? Why should ZRA collect money from Kasama, Send it to Lusaka and then let people who have never been to Kasama decide how much money Kasama needs. Why cant we have a government in Kasama which should be entrasted with a certain %ntage of the taxes collected in Kasama to develop Kasama. The whole system in Zed is counter productive with too many loop holes that facilitate the looting of national resources. The central government should only concern itself with policies.Our infrastructure in the country is delapidated because we have entrasted people who are not even aware of their existance to maintain them. the list goes on and on.
In as much as we have freedom of expression. I would like to advise people who send postings just to attack others, Please raise counter arguments if you disagree with someone, do NOT attack the persons personality.
Insulting is counterproductive. #72, please contribute constructively.
# 56, suffers from the same syndrome as others who feel their race or tribe is superior to others. Its un acceptable in the modern world, keep such beliefs to yourself as you know many do not subscribe to them.
SAGE,you are absolutely right.I think we are still living in the shadows of colonialism as a nation.We don’t seem to have the foresight that would increase the country’s potential to develop in a fast changing world.We are so many score years behind any meaningful development.The concept of the world being a Global Village has obviously not reached the Southern-Central part of Africa.What is even more shocking is that our leaders travel every day to foreign countries but have never copied anything meaningful from these countries.By this I am not advocating for foreign grown policies,I am simply trying to invoke a level of curiosity as to how our country can achieve those standards.We never seem to move from point zero.Leaders must tell the people it is not possible to achieve a level of high mass consumption like the US in a few years.They need to develop a long term development perspective.Not just coz one is President today then all goals must be met.
At least constructive and thought people have started contributing to this blog. 77 & 78 your ideas are prima good. I have to discuss this and believe the Consitutional Assembly is down however I hear it must be done democratically. So the CSO will conduct a sensors bring awareness to be people. Remember a constituiton is not some thing like you just woke up and you have it the next day. PLM has already said he will irrelavent after 2011 so we need to focus on those who which to be in leadership so that he cannt have a situation whereby people are dying of Malaria and our MPs are busy give themselves loans for cars. Dont just look at plot1 but also Manda Hill that is where the weakness starts. If a group people can agree at Lusaaka Kingdom over something with thinking about those who casted votes for them then we need institutions that will insteal discipline. On the hand there is an issue of land where some just woke up and sell it to foreigners. I dont want another Palestine in Zed.
#76 SAGE federalism can not and will not happen in Africa in general and Zambia in particular.We dont have developed systems in place that can contain such type of administration.Our provinces except for CB/Lusaka are not cosmo politan and are still tribal inclined and this in itself is a big hussle to begin with.Secondly infra structure development has not been even and is far from being balanced.From where we are today economically Zambia is billions of miles away from becoming a medium income earner until we start having surpluses in treasury shall we start thinking of diverse idealogies.I appreciate you exposure with the USA way of doing things but what we have is a typical replica of UK admnistration system with the exception that UK has developed its local Authourity that is why things look that advanced.Community empowerment is the key to eradicate poverty, let people participate in governance, engagethem in decisions making and use these for central planning.
#74Mwaice mala-msana wandalama , what has gone wrong with you?I just came to add life to the blog now you want me to go again,Im attending the G8 meeting with the plus five presidents from Africa where your President will never be accorded chance.We dealt with FTJ Smithgate scandal along time ago, go in the archives you will see what was deliberated upon.What must be discussed now is what will happen after registration of assets.I will not talk about FTJ cases mwaice because they are now irrelevant , move with time mwaice that is why Zambia is always trailing.You have serious problems in Zambia and Ndola in particular, Iam thinking about areas that will make Ndola a manufacturing city-Dunlop,Vitafoam,athol pplastics etc not about FTJ.Keep yourself in tune.People from outside came to demostrate about ‘privatisation’here in Heilegedamm because of the spiral effects felt,whatmore with you in Zambia who doesnot even get job seekers allowances?Let us ponder about development not FTJ,KK,LPM
Kuku.. The status quo is not acceptable. Even in the US we have economical imbalances among the states. For example Indiana’s state budget is less than that of Los Angeles city budget. So that is not an excuse.The whole point i’m trying to bring up is that money from Kasama should stay in Kasama to develop Kasama. There is no reason to first take money to Lusaka and then bring back 1% to develop Kasama. Yes our local authorities are weak but we have to start somewhere. If you look at our national budget, More money was allocated to Plot 1 than Western province. If you cant see whats wrong with that picture, i dont know what to say. Our goal should be to get money to where it should be while creating political and civic systems to under take the necessary developmental projects we so desperatelly need. I know it has taken 200 years for USA to be where they are but we have to start somewhere. And by the way Nigeria,South Africa etc have federal systems of government.
#82 please read through my comment especially the last senetnce.I have articulated why the system is not plausible and then conclude with what must be a stepping stone.Of course status quo is not acceptable but let us look at feasible strategies that are practical not to be over ambitious.RSA is an exceptional because the dutch never thought the black man will ever gain independence that is why you saw how the held onto walvis bay after Namibia independence it was home is here.Allocation of budgets of course state house is a very sensitive institution even in the USA they spent quite a while at white house because of the nature of business they handle.Provincial offices participate in budgeting and what we could allude is the inptitude and lack of knowlegde by the controlling officers.there is what is known now as developmental committees that oversee provincial development, until you know why the Mongu guys were under allocated it will be very difficult to argue.
Am tired of the Lil’ FTJ errand.Tired of that judge Smith.Tired of hearing bout stolen money.Tired of complaints.Tired of negative attitude.Time to move on…Whats done is done.Lil’ FTJ is a former presdo…he still deserves our respect..Smith talking bout his house,who the hell shud he dictate to us what to do.Besides,we shudn’t touch Lil’ FTJs’ house coz he still needs shelter…….
#84 playa, i salute. we need young men like you on this blog not fi so called citizen, gk, HK ifyabula style.
#77 nishani tata elo mwashikuka mwa? just go and wash amanongo and come back again and read my rich contributions tata.
#74 shauliyako if you dont like ba FTJ and continue dwelling in darkness na chuchu.
Kuku,the point that SAGE is belabouring to put across is one of empowerment of local authorities to determine dev. needs and set goals in line with Central Gov.They need to draw their own budgets,initiate projects as alternative sources of income or funding,sustain their dev. goals.Right now these authorities are at the mercy of Central Gov. and have been reduced to decision takers.This method has proved too retrogressive as most dev. efforts are frustrated due to lack of funding.Central Gov. can provide policy guidance only
Kuku,the point that SAGE is belabouring to put across is one of empowerment of local authorities to determine dev. needs and set goals in line with Central Gov.They need to draw their own budgets,initiate projects as alternative sources of income or funding,sustain their dev. goals.Right now these authorities are at the mercy of Central Gov. and have been reduced to decision takers.This method has proved too retrogressive as most dev. efforts are frustrated due to lack of funding.Central Gov. can provide policy guidance only.
Playa..FTJ issue is dead we have exhulsted the subject in this blog. Lets move on.
#83 i agree with you Plot 1 needs a sizable budget to curry out some of its functions. But do you anything wrong with spending more than a quoter of the national budget on one institution.Plot 1 last year spent K4BN in a month on alchohol.The balance of power does not allow for the so called developmental committees argue their financial requrements to the Minister of finance or even the parliamentary budgetory sub commettee. What do they do? who do they represent and how are these cammettees formed? We have a situation in Zed where the ministry of finance is the custodian of national resources yet they go to parliament to ask for how much they want to spend in the name of a budget. The executive will spend the money any way so what is the point of that circus. Chief Mpezeni asked last year why money allocated through the budget never gets to the intended projects? upto now no one has answered that quiz
KC..thanks well explained.
#86 KC I have already talked about COMMUNITY EMPOWERMENT in my last sentence #80 may be I define community empowerment-is a process whereby communities especially those that lack access to dev. resources are encouraged to become self reliant.In principle , communities assess their key development challenges and propose activities designed to address those issues and these in turn then form the basis of local regional and even national programmes,So KC what you are talking about I already talked about them in my comment 80.please read through slowly and then you will see that I didnt leave anything.
#88 SAGE, Zambia has a well streamlined way of approving the budget which is through the house.During budget estimate discussion every budget line item is discussed and nothing is left under carpet.K4bn on alcohol its neither you nor me to exactly say anything otheriwse anne chifungulo is better placed to asceratin whether it was a budget overrun or within budget.May be the people entertained during last year where drunkards visitors inclusive.My worry which I found not fit for purpose was the allocation of K6bn for rehabilitation of state house, some one somewhere was not being honest and I expected the house to obtain the basis of allocation.Ifwe strengthen and support the Auditor General financial discipline will slowly return to govt wings.I hope they make use of K50bn donated to them by the Scandnavians
The powers of the audito general are well stipulated in the constitution of “Z” why dont we have the Controller General? probably that office would prevent mis appropriations rather than forcus on how money was spent. I have brought up the K4BN in one month just to show you that Plot 1 is just like ZAMTROP. Its a means to steal money legally. If you do a complete audit of the GRZ accounts you will discover that half the budget cant be accounted for. Its shame, and this primarily because money always make a round trip Kasama – Lusaka ,1% Lusaka – Kasama. You just mensioned the Scandnavians. I have tremendous respect for these guys. By the way i grew up At a reaserch institute in Kasama which was funded by the norwaygians they are a very serious people and they mean development. This the type of people LPM should be talking to and not Chinese and Cobra’s Taiwanes. They are a waste of time.
#92 SAGE atleast some one is trying to reinvent the wheel, before the baby walks they must craw,the best remedy anywhere is prevention and this will slowly retun to the fore, having identified areas of weakness Am sure things will fall in place only when we crip the excessive powers enshrined in the Kateka by putting in a sound constitution.The president is always interfering in the autonomy of most govt wings and that is why people do what they do because they have had enough rubbish. You grew up in Misamfu Research centre no wonder you want Kasama to be an independent state, but Kasama has seriuous problems ranging from soils to terrain.Is NCU still there? Daksha Stores,Kwach relax etc
#93 Kuku… I havent been to Ksama in close to 20yrs. Misamfu was great then i have no idea whats happening that side of the world. You sound like you know kasama well. Thanks for a wonderful day i really enjoyed the discusion both you and KC have been incredibly intelligent and well informed. this is my email drop me a line may be we can talk some time. [email protected]
Have a good day.
#94 SAGE, many thanks my brother, you have long been gone, I dont blame you but urge you to bring that exposure and expertise to Kasama Central by being their MP.During my secondary school days I used to go holidaying in the village Chilubula until all my old folks passed on.I have vivid memories of the place and would want to visit since Mr Mumba is generating power in Mporokoso may be we can copy the formula and do the same on our Lukupa river.
I have taken note of your email and will be chatting with you so often, come down to Ndola and buy yourself a mansion cheaply
Br Kuku and Sage, It’S good to hear from you gentmen.You are bringinng old memories. I’m also a product of Kasama and I did primary and secondary sch in Kasama.Brothers I was in Kasama two years ago,there is no NCU/ZCF and Kwacha relax Hostel has been bought by the catholic if not mistaken.You have reminded me of Village Agriculture Programmes(VAP) and Rural National development Co-operation(RNDP)Brs if you are going to SNr Chief Mwamba via Kasama village,and Lukupa using Lukupa road during rain season you have to go to Mutale or Mukandawa village then back to Kasama village because the road is extremely bad thru kapenda forest.Kasama municipal council is always changing the road when giving plots to pipo wth money.I remember ILO invested alot in making this road. I wonder whether the Deputy minister/PS/ area Member of parliament visits his costituency to see how this has affected developments from his area.lukupa Health centre provides health care services even to pipo frm town.
#96 Kanyata the answer lies in you and SAGE.Kasama will only develop with people like you.People who understand the developmental needs of the province.Its sad to read the down side of Kasama town, I remember from Kasama boys to chilubula the road was dusty and during rain season slippery Am told upto now no tarmac has been put in place.Its this lopsided development which is worrying.100 years will pass and we shall be listening to the same old songs.VAP these are the guys who consfused my folks with one lima fertiliser and spoiled their soils which can not produce anything without use of fertiliser.The problem we have is we elect people who are based in Lusaka to represent our interests?How can surely people work like that?Let us choose people who are well versed with the place like I will do in Ndola because I know the town inside out.
#88-97, Now that you reveal you are from Kasama, I have some advice for you. I have been in Kasama myself many times, the best lodge in kasama by the way is the ‘Hostels Board Lodge’, Kwacha relax is a serious nightmare with cocroaches and rats, the manager Mr Lungu is trying his best but nothing will happen till there is some investment form the catholics.
Chipata, is about 4-5 times the size of kasama and has many lodges and motels.
To be honest with you, the difference lies in attitude of the peoples in the 2 areas. The 2 towns are both NOT minning towns. So ask yourself, why are the 2 so different?
#98 the answer is simple, the man we gave our resources in 1964 to 1991 instead of making Chinsali a suburban he took everything to chipata to impress his inlaws.Its the same like what happened between Northen Rhodesia and Rhodesia , one was developed at the expense of the other.You have more lodges than Kasama purely bacause your paramount chief is anaza( womaniser) those lodges are more of brothels than anything.Shame on you atleast despite our under development we have maintained our morals.May your souls enjoy the comfort of those lodges
#90-99 nzoona nimwe bakamushi te? you think this is the fora iya kusefwa pasamba te? you parasites. sorry kuku to say the truth te?
Hey..first of all greetings. you are talking about motels which shouldnt be a big deal any way back in the days we had Kwacha relax private, Kasama hotel council and the hostles.In the early 90s there was a hudge influx of retirees and retrenchees from CB to Kasama. This was primarily due to the boom in business between Tanzania and Zambia. Kasama experienced an explosion in real estate and small businesses. The problem was that no policy on the part of GRZ was designed to help these people go diversify into long term business ventures. The 2000 census data showed that Northen province had more people than Lusaka. Another sorry site is Luanshya and Ndola. I visited these 2 cities 2 weeks before coming to USA in 2001. The point is these cities can bounce back with fedralism. If you look at all the revenue generated on the CB. CB can turn into a johannesburg of Zambia. But as long as money is made in Kitwe but 99% is spent on Plot 1 and only 1% i sent back to Kitwe, you wont see much….
Zambia has a lot of money if used properly with accounterbility we can see some serious development. Just as we have the Auditor General, We should also have the Controller General
anonymous is sage sorry for that.
# 22 i agree wit you , these are ftj kicks of a dying horse, he will go down wit anyone within the range of his feets, shame on you FTJ, LEAVE HH alone
Br Kuku and Sage is it true that whn there was by-elections in Luwingu area the govt sent Road constructors to start putting tarmac along Luwingu road and after winning the by-elections Sable pull out sighting non payments by the govt.The question is whn is Luwingu- Mansa road going to have tarmac frm 1964 upton date? There is alot of development in the two provinces in terms of agriculture. Anonymous there are nice hotels, motels,bed and breakfast places in Kasama. I have always said and believe, shilungafye no bubwela, nakabundi kafushisha amabula kundo.Home is home. We young Zambians, at home, abroad and overseas we can make a difference if we can invest in our country thru small long or short term businesses. Eg, thru costruction we can create employment as well as good accomodation to others. All the flowers of the tomorrows are in the seeds of today. No place like home (Zambia)
#105, I support you over making a difference in our country.The future is us and we need to work together as brothers and sisters regardless.What we are seeing and learning where ever we are thru out the world should be used as a base for our motivation to develop our beloved mother Zambia. VIVA #105. Sage and kuku miss your contributions
Leave ba FTJ alone. Fine he made mistakes.Lets work on ensuring that what happened in that era never ever happens again by ensuring greater accountability esp from Plot 1.It is fine to rejoice in the wake of the Smith judgement, but are we also doing a cost benefit analysis. We hear we will try (yes only try!) to recover $58 million dollars, but how much are the “Friends of Chuchu” getting out of this and all the associated costs. Chuchu should not have been selective in pursuing the “loot” if he was serious about it. Lawyer that he is, former Chiwala boy, he can’t even get Katumbi from across the border to come and answer his charges, Not to talk about Xavier, Atan or even this coloured “Tonga” boy, Paul Steele who is an established businessman in RSA now. Thing is he directly licked from these boys’ hands during his campaign and can’t touch them. FJT is being punished for the leaked doc’s report on Chuchu’s “knocked” engine. Let FJT die peacefully.
#105,#106 Gentlemen, Iam already using Adam Smith’s principles in Ndola.Its me and BaJoze who are the only local entrepreneurs in Lusaka and Ndola.I was just telling SAGE that please come and buy yourself a mansion in Ndola for as little as K250m , the type of the great Mtines.If you continue being in diaspora you will be 50 years behind when you return.Kanyanta with the money I make I will not dream of leaving Ndola for what?There is no place like home-total comfort not when you skip your credit card payment you heart even stops pumping No! In 10 years time I will be the bill gates of Ndola.Very soon I will start visiting you people abroad to help you invest back home and this I promise.Us Kaponyas use every bit of opportunity that come our way we dont wait for others to do it for us.As long as you continue being away, Luwingu, Kasama , Nabwalya will remain status quo.
#108 Ba kuku, welcome back, u have risen with a bang!! We missed ur rich contributions. I hope bakamba with your coming back Citizen and the likes will learn manners from you not to insults us kaponyas who doing are good this country.
#109 Iwe ka AM leave kuku out of this ever since our first engangement with kuku we have operated with mutual respect. He has elevetated himself to admirable levels.
Unlike you and your fellow minibus tout(Ng’wang’wazi or gonen) ka Jose.Thats why you cannot operate Independently. And please do not use the highly respect name of Kaponya, because you are not one.
Education of ka AM and ka Jose on the term KAPONYA
The term Kaponya originated among the Nyanja speaking people of Lusaka . Most youngmen would move about town selling merchandise such as watches, perfumes and ladies shoes in single quantities by accosting people and enticing them to buy by offering very cheap prices. They would say “mudala tiponya item” meaning selling cheaply as good as just giving it away.People began refering to these younmen as ba Kaponya because of selling things at give away prices.
Eventually this business revolved into stationery corner shops called ka SIDO and later ntemba. The purveyors of these businesses ba kaponya evolved into serious minded business individuals. They are highly specialised in the art of marketing and salesmanship .They use lingua to attract customers and not to Insult.
Ng’wang’wazi on the other hand profane VULGAR individuals mostly found as bus touts. AM & JOSE are ng’wang’wazi
#110 Ci CITIZEN nakukanina shinifuna ndeyo. You dont that Ngwangwazi,gonena,kaponya we are same pipo. Uli Chikopo sana. You are wasting my time & energy I want to go ngwangazi so that I put food on table for my family, unlike you who is always begging from master Chuchu forever more. Thats why u fuzi for him, so that he gives u kick back. Selako tubombeko we Chikopo wee!!
#112 Ci CITIZEN bola panshi, naufumi naliso ngangoshe ali kulupako,if I start using my kulima tower language you wont like me my friend, because right now ur lingua is worst than we the so called ngwangwazi, who are better the beggers like u. Wataya ulemu mu bakamba.
#112 113 Ka AM I did not know that you are this thick.
Let me give you another explanation of therm Ng’wang’wazi.
This term was derived from UKU ng’wang’waza meaning to disagree or complain noisily. This term was applied to the bus touts because of the noisy they make enticing passengers and their general rowdy behavior.
Ng’wang’wazis are profane, uncultured,insulting,vulgar and general dirty mouthed.The like to operate in packs (UKUKUNGA).Whenever someone tries to reason with them they resort to insults and slander.Generally they are lazy low lifes mostly loafing (KU LAMBWAZA)at the bus stops.
Asses your self and see where you fit in.Definatly not the respected ba Kaponya.
#109 AM bushe ninshi twacita fwe ba kaponya?Cant we be left alone with our peaceful minds? Uyu citizen he wants to join our group nomba alomfwa insoni be real being a kaponya you learn alot and with total freedom of mind, spirit and soul.AM walibaza mudala keep it up.
#114 Ci CITIZEN the above description fits u very well and can now see why u behiour the way u do, because u know ur job description so well. I can also see that u want to entice others blogers to be like u with dirty mouth. Sorry mate, I am kaponya, ngwangwazi or gonena with dignity and I am not for insults.
#114 Ee naindi iwe Ci CITIZEN joinafye, ala pakwakana ubunga tapaba insoni, fyebanobe emotulila.
#115 KUKU this is not your issue kindly keep away I am sure AM can handle his own mess without help.
#116 AM I take it that you have thrown in the towel, I am sure after this you will know that it is not just any citizen who you can harangue.
I am sure you now have good manners. I will not hasitate to be on you again if you attack my person.
Bu chinyantenyante mwamona mwanyanta na pa muchila wa nsoka
#118 Ci CITIZEN you already described yourself in #114 so I know who I am dealing with and am not bothered by your kind, and I am not going insult u if thats what u want? I am throwing in the towel because I have to earn my living through ngwangwazing. Pipo are waiting for me to direct them which bus to get in. I will meet u tomorrow on this same blog and same time. Shala wewabulo ubuyo.
What a complete waste of precious resources!!!
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