No shortcuts in Constitution making process

1. We have too many job seekers in this country fighting with their tooth and necks over survival opportunities. The constitutional change has just proved one such Golden opportunity to cash in allowances. Political parties are all yearning for renumeration from the national treasury to survive(Coded “need for capacity building”.When a bill to bump up legislatures’ renumerations in the house is brought forward, it receives no opposition or debate by parliamentarians irrespective of the deficit it creates in the national budget. But on decisions such as modes of Constitutional changes believed to endanger vultures’ opportunity of cashing in through astromical allowances possible is seen, vultures are the loudest.Its a lost generation of vultures rambling out of selfishness. Thank God, lawyers are hard to manipulate.

2. I agree with Paparazzi!!

3. It seems to me that the debate on the mode of adoption has taken on a life of its own. We will go on debating how best to adopt the constitution for as long as all our leaders, including the opposition, continue to be indifferent. It would be helpful if the government took a lead and proposed an adopting method that did not give the impression that they were trying to position themselves as the final arbiters on the content the new constitution. Aside from those who see this as a money making opportunity, there are those who rightly or wrongly feel that the CA is the only way that is not open to manipulation by the incumbent government (and by proxy, MMD). Initially the government was adamant that the CA was out of the question. Recently, they have been calling for a referendum. This week Magande was quoted as saying that donors were prepared to fund a CA. Contradictions and misinformation have characterised this debate. We need leadership and not self interest on either side.

4. Paparazzi(1), Naubafyanta mudala. You have hit their heads. We have vultures masquarading as as our mouth pieces when the agenda is the allowances the the seatings will offer. They have it tough coming. Trully the lawyer in the chair is hard to manipulate. One thing i know is that anything that has received KK’s support suffers dehumanising defeat at its end. Countrymen do your own research and sharee here the end result of every thing KK has supported.

5. It is sad to see that on one side there are those who want the CA for their own selfish ends, and on the other side you have those who just want to frustrate the whole process. Somewhere, caught up in the middle, are those who sincerely want to see a good document adopted. Unfortunately, this being Zambia, the honest hardworking folk will be drowned out by those who shout the loudest, including government who have tax payer’s resources (ZNBC, Daily Mail, etc) in their control and the opposition who lack principals and direction. Go help Zambia!

6. Chitapankwa(5),like Paparazzi(1)you have also squarely nailed it all only that the loudest already budgeting for seating allowances they are smelling will not get it under this lawyer. This is a fact, only time will prove it all.He is is prove hard to manipulate. How come those rambling with deafening noise over this issue are the same ones that crafted and kissed it hardly 10 years ago when they were beneficiary yet today they want to makes us believe they are mouth pieces? Trully, it is a Generation of vultures. One fact i know is that vultures will never get those allowances they are counting on as long as this battle is on the watch of that lawyer in plot one.

7. The self interest issue was highlighted at the beginning of this debate a few years ago!! The Govt. took the position that it was too expensive to go via the CA although it had agreed to it in principle (subject to certain legalities of course).The famous mouth pieces found the highest hill, stood on it, and proclaimed manipulation by LPM and Co.500,000 per day per person???It is no wonder nothing is ever done.

8. That ZK 500,000 per day per person figure if properly tailored and crafted in the MMD and GRZ anti CA propaganda, folks we could be heading for a stunning anti CA hateful section of the 6,000,000 plus eligible voters across the country wallowing in poverty. I see the advocates of the CA countering dangerous hatred over that allowance the majority poor will take them as dangerous vultures after the national treasury. The GRZ propaganda machinery may just stay consistent with that damaging message that heartless job seekers loudest for the CA method, are after earning themselves hefty seating allowances of 500,000 per day per person against GRZ’s road map that will save needful resources. If this is done consistently using every tool of dissemination to the people in every party of Zed, I can confidently predict a violent anti CA period. I refuse to pretend. The submissions to the Mung’omba commission did not carry a significant representation of the voting population. Already, GRZ machinery is across the country doing its rounds when noisemakers are still rambling on empty hills of Lusaka among a busy and practically uninterested Zambian populace. Interesting time to follow politics and democracy.

9. That ZK 500,000 per day per person figure if properly tailored and crafted in the MMD and GRZ anti CA propaganda, folks we could be heading for a stunning anti CA hateful section of the 6,000,000 plus eligible voters across the country wallowing in poverty. I see the advocates of the CA countering dangerous hatred over that allowance the majority poor will take them as dangerous vultures after the national treasury. The GRZ propaganda machinery may just stay consistent with that damaging message that heartless job seekers loudest for the CA method, are after earning themselves hefty seating allowances of 500,000 per day per person against GRZ’s road map that will save needful resources. If this is done consistently using every tool of dissemination to the people in every party of Zed, I can confidently predict a violent anti CA period. I refuse to pretend. The submissions to the Mung’omba commission did not carry a significant representation of the voting population. Already, GRZ machi

10. That ZK 500,000 per day per person figure if properly tailored and crafted in the MMD and GRZ anti CA propaganda, folks we could be heading for a stunning anti CA hateful section of the 6,000,000 plus eligible voters across the country wallowing in poverty. I see the advocates of the CA countering dangerous hatred over that allowance the majority poor will take them as dangerous vultures after the national treasury. The GRZ propaganda machinery may just stay consistent with that damaging message that heartless job seekers loudest for the CA method, are after earning themselves hefty seating allowances of 500,000 per day per person against GRZ’s road map that will save needful resources. If this is done consistently using every tool of dissemination to the people in every party of Zed, I can confidently predict a violent anti CA period.I refuse to pretend. The submissions to the Mung’omba commission did not carry a significant representation of the voting population. Already, GRZ machinery is across the country doing its rounds when noisemakers are still rambling on empty hills of Lusaka among a busy and practically uninterested Zambian populace. We are in interesting time to follow politics and democracy.

11. Admin, apologies for the duplicity. Kindly delete my post 9 & 10. I did mean to.

    Thanks

12. Ba Paparazzi(10), people often underestimate the power of the govt. propaganda machinery.Your points are very valid and the loudest mouths seeking a CA have to regroup and counter the believeable spiel even Sports Ministers are giving!!! Will the CA advocates propose participation in a CA be voluntary ???Chances are, those who want to be in the CA “cannot afford” to donate their precious time and as such only the wealthy or the retired may participate!!Creating parallel structures to deal with the constitution is complicated business and unfortunately the common man will be so confused at the end of it all,that they will soon lose interest and concentrate on putting food on the table,clothes on their backs and their children in school!!

13. The “combatants” on both side are being dishonest in their dealings in respect of the CA. As has been observed on this blog, high profile people are keep contradicting each other on the matter. Shall we get an official govt position stated so that “we the people” decide the forward?

14. #13 Chitengi, what is being pronounced as MMD position is the govenment position. What these chaps have done LPM, Kunda & Co have decided and now unleasshed all thes Cadres to tell us how those suppoting the CA are wrong..and they just sit in the background quiet and create an impression as though the people don’t want the CA. This is the same as the Third Term strategy FTJ used. So the govertment position is clear ..they want to do the constitution the way it has been done in the past..the status quo and they are very clear ..;they don’t want the CA.

15. Ba Pundit 12, there is no way the CA advocates keen to participate in the campaigns would do it free.From my reliable sources am aware that even BOMA and MMD makes heavy resource commitments to their propagandist you spinning on radios, blogs and TVs be it at home or in the Diaspora. That devotion is never free. Then why the CA turn themselve free advocates?

16. Ba Phiri(14)& Ba Kitwe 09(15),please correct me if i’m wrong.For the CA and constitution to materialise we must: 1. have a census. 2. have a referendum 3. repeal a few laws 4. constitute an assembly of representatives(parallel to Parliament) to receive submissions and frame the new constitution 5. enact a new constitution (with or without Parliament ??).

    Meanwhile,you have no drugs in hospitals,poorly paid doctors/nurses/teachers etc,poor road infrastructure(cannot support intended development),poorly funded universities,seasonal disease outbreaks and prisons that are almost full!!! (the list can go on, i assure you)

    If you were in PLOT 1 where would your priorities lie??

    Please note, just in case it is important: I’m advocating a major overhaul of several provisions in the existing constitution…..i just have very few ideas as to how i would do it!!!

17. too many spokespersons on the constitution.Gabriel your portfolio is sports, so how the hell do you jump in to the constitution fray? such sensitive matters should be handled by the office of the president or the Government spokesman

18. Ba Pundit, you are right.This is why these MMD guys are laughing all the way with victory assured

19. Pundit, you are correct that is the process that we should go through to get to the CA. But this whole process is being done in bad faith by LPM & Co. As a president he can by pass this whole process and have the CA adopt the constitution. The current constitution allows him to do that. But he wont because him and his co are simple minded men. Everybody knows it is going to be costly and he can do the right thing and save the nation loads of people.

    We are not asking LPM do do what has not been done before. If you you recall when MMD came on the scene, the nation was supposed to hold a referendum to repeal the constitution and KK being wise used his power and scraped it and just repealed the necessary piece of legislation and Multi-partyism was born without a referendum stipulated in the constitution at that time.

    This is what we are asking LPM & Co to do. It’s been done before in the interest of the nation.

20. what happened to sacrificing for the nation? CA members can sacrifice part of their pay.Besides the people who are likely to be on the committee are already on the Government payroll some how . It is time we saw true patriots.We are tired of pipo who want to be rewarded all the time at the expense of the country. Let us go by what can you do for the country, now is the time

21. I DON’T SEEM UNDERSTAND THIS DEBATE, WHY CAN’T SOME PIPO WHO UNDERSTAND EDUCATE OTHERS? I TELL U, THIS DEBATE IS FOR A FEW LEARNED COLLEGUES, BUT ZAMBIA IS MADE UP OF A LOT OF PIPO MOST OF WHICH ARE THE OPPOSIT OF THE FEW.I UNDERSTAND THAT THE GOVT IS SUPPOSE TO DO THAT BEFORE ASKING PIPO TO VOTE FOR OR AGAINST ON SOMETHING THEY DO NOT UNDERSTAND.THE OTHER QUESTION WHICH TROUBLES ME IS THAT WHY DO WE SPEND SO MUCH TIME ON DEBATES WHEN THERE ARE OTHER PRESSING ISSUES LIKE UNEMPLOYMENT. AND WHAT WOULD BE THE PROBLEM OF GETTING ANOTHER COUNTRY’S CONSTITUION AND JUST CHANGE WHERE THAT COUNTRY’S NAME APPEARS WE REPLACE ZAMBIA. THAT WAY WE CAN SAVE MONEY AND TIME.

22. #20. Mbulawa
    Sacrifice must be MUTUAL.

23. The constitution making process isn`t in any slightest imagination going to be cheap.It would be inconcievable to expect people doing this for free.Don`t tell me that this chap(Nalumambe) is in Mansa on voluntary basis.He`s busy raking in govt allowances at the expense of the same poor he seems to be concerned about.Talk about their gratuity and car loans which they don`t even pay back.His boss always rushes to UK for treatment instead of using those kind of resources to buy equipment for the local hospitals that would benefit the masses he seems to be corncerned about.Very clear message to these Demagogues that whatever it takes, we`re ready to have a constitution that would stand the test of time…period.

24. #21. Chalo Chanda
    Getting another country’s constitution and then replacing that countries name with “Zambia” to make it our own? You see nothing wrong with that?

25. Chalo Chanda, your ideas can not work where you get a constitution from another country and just change it to Zambia. First, the people must understand what is contained in that document, and how it will affect their lives. We can’t just get an American constitution for example, and bring it to Zed. They are just few things we can borrow from other countries’ constitutions and blend them into ours.We really need a people’s constitution in Zambia, not one full of biasiness of the Party in power. We need a constitution today, and not tomorrow. Without a good constitution, we will continue experiencing the same UNZA demos day in day out.

26. #21 Chalo Chanda ever heard of PLAGIARISM?What you are talking about is criminal and if that is what you are doing in your studies better stop and use your brains not some ones work.No wonder the qualityof education nowadays is diluted because of people like World(Chalo) Chanda.
    Coming to the subject above,I feel LPM and Co must be sincere in what they are trying to do.Firstly LPM and his Cohorts have taken Zambians for a ride,when he appointed the Mungomba Commission what was his preconceived idea about their work?This CA is a recommendation by the commission not anybody else and is based on the evidence collected from all 9 provinces not MMD.Some of you on this blog you just open your mouths without due reasoning.Even if CA will cost a few Kwachas its worth it, how much does LPM spend on by elections which are an everyday thing because of corruption?So far three by elections have cost us more than K9bn through nullifications, so how does it become impossible for a governing document

27. #27 It makes sad reading that even people who are supposed to be enlightened sink so low to be bothered by allowances such as K500,000, there is nothing for free,and it just shows how backward we are,If you are genuine condemn the nullifications of these corrupt by elections and channel that money for better uses than being so myopic about the CONSTITUTION,this doucument forms the cornerstone of Zambia, complicating it with stupid idea is an insult to the Zambian populace.Let us be sensible and objective in the way we take things
    #23 good points

28. I see Guys we are in serious problems of this constitution issue because there is money to gain in terms of allowances and on the other hand power to lose. So here it real demands on what you pipo want China is busy copying the Germany constitution as a whole because they find it good. My suggestion Govt bought an election equipment which was not used at last year tripate election why cant we use it collect data instead of using CSO. Another cheaper mean which very costless is the Internet we connect to ZNBC so that when results of voting come in are monitored and they can not uttered. We just need one day to do this. Or those who would want to sit on the some are govt officials and others are in private sector and have either salaries or business so no allowances its time to sacrifice. The money at we have attain from Debt relief should be canncelled in solving agent problems improve educational standards at UNZA, Give students loans so that they can pay their fees, Get all street..

29. Ba Tboz(17), it is called singing from the same song sheet!!! That is what you need in a strong govt.Imagine if GN said the opposite??

    Ba Chanda Phiri(19),be careful what you wish for!!If you allow presidents to “bypass” anything you are asking for irreparable damage to the integrity of the very democratic system we are trying to build.

    Bottom line,comrades…..we cannot hope to acheive economic recovery and spend lavishly on a new constitution.Under the current scenario we have seen positive growth both actual and potential.Can we not find middle ground somewhere??We may have to sacrifice growth for posterity….how many of us will agree to this?? I propose we move forward in phases….every two years a major component of the constitutional review process be undertaken.This way we safeguard and protect current growth but still pursue the ideal document to govern us all!!A very provocative suggestion and comments in support,refinement or indeed total rejection are eagerly awaited

30. This is an interesting public choice dilemma. Am just wondering if this couldnt done at less than K500,000? The draft constitution itself and the ERTC have been done at great cost.

31. # 20 well said. this country has been plundered because of greed for money.Small allowances should be paid to CA members.The less money CA members make the faster the process.The country has no Money but that does not mean we cant have a proper constittution.Stop making excuses, we have the brains and the will to do it let money not be a hinderance

32. Kids give them skills. The president should with immediate effective hault the allowances and gratitudes the salary Minister get should be enough. We should also put in place our MPs of parliament if they serve their constituencies for two term- 10 years they qaulify for retired package which enables to continue to lead moderate lives.This a good weapon to fight corruption. Allowance should be given after be transmitted to other sectors like job creation. No MP or Minister should pocket more than K5 Million per year if one get more than that he has to declare give this money to a charity organisation like hospitals, school and many other good projects like craft and art at Kwabata. Minister should pocket the money donate it. If we start doing this you will how we can improve our lives.

33. Has any party (Govt, Desert Forum e.t.c) come up with the figures? I mean how much it will cost us to come up with a new constitution? And how much have we spent so far? Someone educate me.

34. # 29 Pundit , what is the role of the govt spokesman? or the spokeperson in the office of the president? can you imagine if every minister started talking about sports. every minister should stick to his portfolio. That way we can have an effective Govt

35. indeed can someone give us the total cost for the process. We seem to be speculating on the cost.The process should also include sacrifice.This process is for the good of the nation so every one must play a role.

36. If an Zambian wants to make monies then doing business is the solution because that is investment reinvestment is makes the money circle complete and it leads to job creatíon and improvement of condtion of services. Once we achieve gentlemen then cake will be big to share it among all Zambians in form of cheap transport and communication, health, shelter, clean water supply. Do what means to attain this much recreation and peace will prevail no UNZA strikes and stoning of cars by student there are a lot of benefits. Its us Zambians to do this we should wait for a good samaritan because he has his own interest.

37. RUFQUA page 7735, quote John F Kennedy on his inaugural speech “ask not what America will do for you but what you will do for America” end of quote. Iwe Gabriel Namulambe what have you done to Zed? But look what Zed has done to you. You were ka paper weight nomba utumasaya twapopa and you start ukusabaila te? WAIT you are just remaining with 3 yrs you will be NOT even HISTORY but like black dot on a white cloth.

    In zed ba POLOTICIANI are seeing Zed kwati cangalilo and they are not even chess players, thats why they can’t think in broader terms but only for themselves first and zedian last. We need CA full stop.

38. The most expensive commodity any country can buy is democracy. The president’s main responsibility is defend and protect the constitution. There is no provision in our constitution with allows to amend section 79 without a referendum. The reason the constitution was crafted this ways was just for Kaunda to make it impossible to change from one party state to multi partism. in 1990 Kaunda floated the constitution by amending certain sections of the constitution without going for a referendum. by the way that is an impeachable offence. Folks if we want to amend section 79 then we have to go through a referendum and pay the huge price. Legal expert argue that we dont have to amend 79 because we are making a new constitution. True, but there is no provision in the current constitution that allows for dumping a constition and facilitate a creation of a new one. At this point in our life i dont think its advisable to float the constitution. We have to set presidence and through the …..

39. I believe the cost will be in Trillions bypassing the what FTJ and Co. stole including the debt relief we got. Its exorbitant because this lose money get without sweating for it. Hard earned backs Bamudaala you think twice before even you can spend. Where is our presido Ba Joze has been knocked or he has already started doing the responsibilities we assigned him. We need money not kuya ku Orders Party Fundraising you be the priority now Ba Joze. All the GWAGWAZI should help. VIVA BA Joze and his Cabinet.

40. Ba Tboz(34), in cabinet they compose a song.The govt. spokesman passes on the lyrics to the media,more like a laison officer.Cabinet ministers are instructed and use every opportunity to sing the same version of the song agreed in cabinet.Their duty, among others, is to dessiminate govt. policy to whoever is unfortunate to have to sit through their speeches.That is how govt. works!!! Ministers are often fired when they play a jazz version of the original song that had words in it.(VJ)

41. painful process of a referendum. People if we want a new cosntitution we have to deal with section 79 and that requires a referendum. If we are not ready financially to fund the project then lets just deal with the electrol act. As things stand, tough Levy is just doing his job. And he is right. I believe the constitution has to be dynamic and change according times. But we have to go through this painiful process of making it dynamic. We can safely say the constition will be safe with paliament bacause i dont see any one party holding a clear majority in the nex 100 years.

42. SAGE38# Laws and rules are made by we pipo and they can changed at anytime. Dont mislead us if Zambians want complete change of the constitution can be down without this long process emcompassed with a chain million benefiarers. Are one of them? Democracy is all the Majority and compromise. Yes I agree with that we have to safegaurd the constitution and this not only for the president but every Zambian. If walked in a office and someone ask for money that is corruption you must report him this what it means to defend the constitution. The problem you guys you are look at one aspect the powers of the president we should look at this at a wider specutrum. There is Bill of Rights the cardinal issue here.

43. #41. It is true that Laws and Rule are made by people and can be changed. But if they are to be respected they must be changed LAWFULLY. Let us change our constitution lawfully, then we can be sure that it will retain the ‘respect’ that should be accorded to the law of the land.

44. #43 is a response to #42 and NOT #41 as stated. sorry for the mix-up.

45. Look SAGE some of these things are easy to do i.e we have Parliament, National Assembly and Cabinet you if we want to scrap one of these replace it with a commission which can look at pressing issues that cannot be agreed in Parliament you mean cant do because of article 79. I doubt my dear we are leaving in the 21st century. Give you concrete example 10 years ago a telephone was only for the have in Zambia but to day anyone can have it. We didnot not need to repeal any law to attain this, you all these are regulate in the constitution of Zambia. Read it from A up Z like the bible to understand it. I started going to Parliament when I was three to listen deliberations and discussion we have alot to do to educate Zambians about this constitution. Look today ZNBC is everywhere and we have more than one radio station if real we want to do this refrendum I tell you it just one we need like we go voting the next day will have the results. Zambia now is well balanced because we have opposit

46. ctd… ion this go we need strong opposition without opposition no democracy.

47. EASY ulishani? When a nation crafts a constitution and its adopted and becomes the governing law of the land. Any thing that happens in the country has to be in conformity with the law, which is the constitution. It has to be protected and defended at all costs. Your job my friend is to obey the law and report the law breakers to the police. LPM’s job is to protect and defend the constitution. The majority now want a new constitution. Ask yourself as an individual, what do you really want the new cosntitution to address? You will realise that most people dont have a clue on what they want the constitution to address. 90% of the queries are on the electoral act. If you dont want to spend the money just deal with the electoral act separately. The president also has to provide leadership. He cant just do things because people are screeming on top of their lungs. He has to be steadfast and his actions should always be consistant with the law he swor (sp) to protect.

48. I’m not a lawyer, but my hunch is that if the people were told that the only affordable method of adopting the constitution would be through Parliament, many of them would have said lets live with the FTJ constitution. There’s no value-added. So i also dont agree that Levy is being helpful here. Perhaps the contentious issue is more political than legal. Lets have credible cost figures…

49. #41 our constitution has been playing around articles 4,79 and I dont know which article KK used to stick to one party rule but to cut the story short, how many times has USA changed the constititution? Depending on your answer what makes you think ours must be changing according to times?Its not like that, all these things are being done because our leaders are mere job seekers and have never bothered to serve Zambians had they been, we should have written our constitution on the leverage of a bible and that is the stance USA took to write theirs in the 19th century.The bible is never repealed nor amended as and when we feel like, it has 66 books which you have been reading eversince you were born.Marjority of Zambians today dont even know what is all about for someone to propose a referendum,If I was to ask , how many on this blog have read the constitution and understood its contents?You will be amazed at the answer.Sincerity must prevail and use the stupid K500,000 by this foolish

50. EASY, i dont know what to say. read your comments on #45, can you surely compare having a phone to creating a constitution? Do you know that you have a cabinet and parliament because the constitution dictates that we have one. Ba Jose and Born Rich is this the guy you need in your government as a minister? Easy The government appoints ministers from parliament because our constitution says so. If it was upto him he would go to his village to appoint ministers. First things first, take time to understand the magnitude of the subject and the provisions of the constitution before you replace cabinet and parliament with a commission of inquiry.

51. Spoken like a true SAGE(47)!! Maybe we should backtrack and find out exactly what part of the constitution is truly contentious.The creation of parallel structures to solve everyday problems is indeed a waste of resources.There can be no shortcuts either.To illustrate the mass confusion out there, one contributor(38) has confused the Penal Code with the constitution and yet he/she has internet competency to contribute to these debates!!!

52. ctd Namulambe who thinks to be Minister you breath different air.LPM has got his Mulongoti to speak about govt matters, recently LPM stopped MMD people from discussing his successor but has allowed this ***** to be mascarading as a spokesman, last week in Mufulira he said the same rubbish, in luapula he is at it.Law and rules were made for man not the other way round and easily be changed in much the same they were enacted.so article 79 should not preocupy your thougts.Mungomba is a lawyer by profession and has read the same law LPM is trying to play with.for him to chair that commission he had people of Zambia at heart and it was the committee’s resolve that this process be adopted they way they recommended.Otherwise LPM should not have taken trouble to use donor funds on something he had a hidden agenda on.How many us understand the meaning of CA? and Referendum?

53. i do apologise i meant contribution 42

54. I wonder what is wrong with the constitution we have or had befor? With adjustments I feel it would serve us just fine. A constitution is supposed to be a dynamic instrument that adresses the needs of the society to which it’s applied. Istead of rewriting the whole document all we should do is address the parts of it that we feel are contrary to general intrest and move on.
    Patrick Mvunga can write a contitution in his sleep consult him!
    loadist out!

55. #54 ever heard of the Mvunga commission? do some research and come back to contribute stop day dreaming

56. #51, thats exactly the problem we have. We have politicians whose major concern is to get to Plot1 confusing people on the constitution making process. You can only create a new constitution if there is a clause in the current constitution to self distruct or giving powers to parliament to distroy it. The current constitution doesnt even allow parliament to amend certain articles like 79 with out a referendum. The new constitution is designed to change the political spectrum. It will not offer anything to a comon man on the streets.

57. #52, We are not supporting LPM’s use of donor funds or his hidden agenda. But we agree with him on the fact that you can not have a CA with a referendum. The refendum simply means eligible voters have to vote for or against repealing of article 79. If the no vote prevails or less than 50% registered voters show up. We revert to the status quo. If the yes vote wins then and only then can artile 79 be amended or deleted from the constitution. The fear most politicians have, is that the referendum will fail. This is just because people dont understand the nonsense and also they have gotten a raw deal from the goverments past and present. people dont feel GRZ is there for them but just for the few crackers at the top of the food chain.

58. #50 SAGE, that boy Easy sometimes he talks from without and I think he has memory lapses. Oh yes, it’s a serous case, read his contradictory comments. Sage I picked my shadow cabinet from the bloggers by looking at the areas they articulate flow of data.
    Coming to your query on RUFQUA book. It weighs 4.3kg and it has has 10000 pages. I have 6 copies now and if you need one I can spare it for you at a reasonable price. Come pa interz and ask for my worker ‘Stuffnurse Asrida Tembo’. Plz give time I will give you the site where you can order it.

    #2 agree and come up with you now ideas. In Rufqua page 2953 states that kind of pipo as DAWDLER. It’s not an insult but a fact.

    #44 born rich mwaice, stop writing utuma-one line sentence plz. In the book of RUFQUA (page 2954)such pipo are referred as SLACKERS

59. The fact that even Parliament is restricted in it’s legislative power points to self protecting clauses that must be encouraged. With the lopsided representation we tend to have in African parliaments you can imagine how often “ruling parties” would tinker with a sacred document like a constitution.Clauses such as calling for a nationwide referendum are there to protect the majority who on a day to day basis are voiceless.Like SAGE(56)says we must watch out for those aiming to cause confusion just to get into Plot1 (many of whom would be happy with just Plot 2 !!)Comrades, let us do this right and avoid the dangerous precedent of shortcuts.

60. A constituent assembly is a body elected with the purpose of drafting, and in some cases, adopting a constitution
    A referendum is defined as 1. the principle or practice of referring measures proposed or passed by a legislative body to the vote of the electorate for approval or rejection.
    2. a vote on a measure thus referred
    The question is what will it take to hold a referendum on a population who barely understand the document? Our innocent Zambians are ignorant of these issues that is why even during the past reviews these have been more or less boardroom excercises, the Mwanakatwe, the Mvunga ,etc other countries which have adopted their constitution through CA include -Iraq-2005,Bolivia -2007,France-1789,Norway-1814,Russia-1918 ,Germany -1919 ,Ireland-1922 ,Syria -1930, China(Taiwan)-1946, India-1946, Pakistan -1947,Elsalvador-1982 etc so why cant we take what the marjority want.If people are unsettled by certain clauses i.e 50+1, why not come out in the open

61. Maybe we should just dump the whole process and We go ahead and amend the existing clauses which are anti-democratic and archaic laws.

62. DR Kenneth Kaunda has opposed the government’s proposed referendum over the constituent assembly(Today’s post)

63. #59 Pandit, we should labour to maintain self protecting clauses in our constitution. You see Zedians are have a short memory and they want to just deal with the immediate and not seeing far enough. Do you guys remember how the motor theft crime became unbailable? Let me remind you. Archi took FTJ’s wife. Now are these the guys you want to entrast the constitution with? Do you know how FTJ came up with getting police permits before holding a rally? because he was facing an uncertain future politically. As i always say we can not trust parliament because once elected all they want is to become Ministers. These chaps will vote on anything without reading it. Today its sounds easy to say lets just float the constitution because of the current anti LPM euphoria. As educated men and women we should look and plan past lunch. We should weigh the impact of such actions on our society. 1998 if FTJ proposed that castrate anyone who grabs your chick, we would be grappling with the stupid law.

64. URGENT REQUEST…….lusakatimes.com

    Due to the power invested in me by my shadow cabinet and ruthless opposition party headed by Dr HK and ci gk. I request lusakatimes.com to give us good topic to debate on so that I can make use book of RUFQUA.

    Sign by Ba Joze…the favourite presdo candidate for 2011.

65. URGENT REQUEST…….lusakatimes.com

    Due to the power invested in me by my shadow cabinet and ruthless opposition party headed by Dr HK and ci gk. I request lusakatimes.com to give us good topic to debate on so that I can make use book of RUFQUA.

    Sign by Ba Joze…the favourite presdo candidate for 2011.

    PLEASE GIVE US YOUR CONTACT:

66. #59 If LPM was a genuine leader he would have not instituted the CRC but should have extracted the bad laws from the current constitution and these are the ones he must have subjected to the referendum so that people deliberate on them duly.But putting up CRC was a short form of going through that route, CRC took care of all the submissions that bordered on bad laws and everything else picked those that were compelling.So today to go back to a referendum is just sheer waste of time and resources.Forty three’ years (43yrs) grace period granted to our presidents has been long enough. Which means that – that trust put into our leaders has been exhausted, Hence, it is time to demand for people-mandated CA please

67. #66 You are absolutely right. The CRC was constituted in bad faith. It was designed to pasify the people. The biggest problem we have is no one is genuinely interested in fixing the constitution. remember the constitution in its current form favours people in power. For LPM to really do what is right, he has to stop looking at MMD and himself and start for once looking at whats good for Zambia. Although i agree with him on the referendum , i dont believe he is genuiunly interested in giving us a constitution that will stand the test of time. The whole issue about the CA came up because people dont trust the government. When you look at the few draconian laws in the constitution. We dont even need to amend article 79 to fix our electroal process. The only way we are going to start trusting our parliament is to stop MPs from becoming Ministers. We have to get MPs to start serving the electrolate.

68. The issue of adopting a new constitution through a CA is more paramount than the cost of doing this.We should endeavour to provide all necessary logistics at whatever cost to put in place a legal document that will protect and preserve the foundations of our great nation.Our people need to make sacrifices in order to appreciate the greatness of life.It is not up to gov. to decide how much or question why we should spend so much money,but the interest of all Zambians,old,young,rich,poor,educated or uneducated.We cannot go on pretending all is well.The present cost of adopting this constitution will be a future gain to the greatness of Zambia.Gov. needs to realise that the Zambian people are determined to create a destiny in their own country that will bring hope.

69. Ba Kuku(66),how was LPM expected to identify the “bad laws”??The CRC highlighted peoples concern and illustrated for all to see just how passionate Zambians were over the “bad laws”.Would zambians have accepted a “list” of bad laws drawn up by LPM and his cronies without the CRC?? We cannot run away from the referendum…it is the law(assuming you still want certain clauses repealed).Comrades, there are no shortcuts unless you want every future situation to be dealt with via shortcuts!LPM is an educated president who appreciates the value of leaving a good legacy.He is far from perfect but his methods are far much better than those of his predecessors!We can still achieve our aspirations whilst observing the law….it just takes a little longer but it will be permanent!!

70. Ba KC(68),there is no bankrupt,underdeveloped country that has time for constitutional issues(Somalia,DRC etc.)When have heard baKaboke talking about a constitution?? We cannot sacrifice what has been started.”we cannot eat all the relish at lunch…what about at supper??”

71. #68 KC, I agree with, like the saying quote in the book of RUFQUA “cheaper things are expensive in the long run”. That money the govt is trying to serve who will be the beneficiaries? Only the big fish and its Clone as sitting allowances and in the long run pipo’s right will be oppressed, suppressed and intimidated. If 50+1 was in place Chuchu would have been in sticky situation in which FTJ is going thru. The MMD govt is stingy and does care about the pipo who put in power and it wants to be wamuyaya by adopting useless tactics. MMD govt learn to listen to the pipo and give what belong to them.

72. The same old story CA or Refrendum? We want to move on and solve this constitutional crisis. So since both are always in conflict a way out is sort him. All the 73 tribes should choose learned people to represent them on drafting this new constitution. Zambians why dance the same the same tune for 43 years power struggle hhuuu.

73. #70,kindly take time to read and assimilate what people write.Do not pick out a few words and form a shallow rebuttal.Whether bakaboke have talked about their constitution or not is neither here nor there.If they have been constrained by a lack of funds,let them hang.My concern is Zambia.The sacrifice I have alluded to is one which Zambians need to make to ensure a good constitution is enacted.We do not need the excuse that it will be costly.You seem to be one of those chaps comfortable with the fact that under-performing MPs can approve for themselves $53k car loans and hefty mid-term gratuities.Your lunch and supper analogy has no place in this equation.Try something else.Your gov. is arguing that it cannot support the adoption of the constitution through a CA coz it is costly.I am saying,we do not care what it will cost now as long as it will benefit the country in the long term.Aren’t you appalled that we always have CRCs whenever there is a new President?

74. #69 Bein a lawyer ,LPM knows the weaknesses of the current constitution and in his wisdom underated the participating populace in the submissions, such that even areas he ignored or perceived otherwise were adequately dealt with leaving him exposed.Let’s begin with the good parts first: The idea of incorporating the people’s popular demand of a constituent assembly, as the preferable mode of adopting a revised constitution is good. Also the idea of using a referendum for amending Article 79 is sanguine.
    Democracy has constantly been abused by the so-called “people’s representatives”-MPs.who are always Jumping from party to party (promiscus politicians)for the sake of maximizing their personal gain – is a blatant abuse of people’s trust.Earlier on MMD suggested that the constitution be adopted thru parliament but he saw the resistence from all stakeholders and did a 360 degree about turn.This is were now every one is not comfortable with LPM

75. #70 have you been following LPM’s attitude from the time the CRC submitted the draft report?Its amazing that you Pundit in your right frame of mind cant see that all the reasons LPM puts up are undemocratic.Leaving a legacy???? Which legacy?Let us debate with open minds,if your Chuchu had wanted to leave a Legacy he should have been the one to show iniative in concluding this issue but he has gone out of the way pulling at each and everyone in the land.A person who is sincere must be open to suggestions,I dont think him and his clonies are the only better placed people who understand the process better than the 11m people of Zambia.A good Leader must be able to give and take,Only people with legal knowledge are priviledged to understand the nit grits of this doucment hence its always them who head these CRCs otherwise it will be useless.People like you and me just blend in.LPM’s legacy may will be winter maize according to RUFQUA page8972 ,tefyo BaJOze

76. Easy says:

    “The same old story CA or Refrendum? We want to move on and solve this constitutional crisis.” Quote

    Ba Easy,be corrected that there is no constitutional crisis under the current dispensation.

77. #76 Kadansa read comment #58 about Easy. Such kind of pipo in the book of RUFQUA (page 121) are called “ne’er-do-well”

78. Ba KC(73),a very harsh but objective response.We live in a global village now so you have to care what your neighbour is going thru,becoz it will inadvertently affect you.i suppose going by your argument we should not re-equip UTH,repair roads and fund universities properly,instead we should fund the CA immediately becoz the same people who want it have no need for the tangible benefits of roads,hospitals and a good education. I never once said no to the CA,i’ve merely questioned it’s apparent immediate importance and furthermore i have advocated following the law to the last letter in getting it done.On MP’s, trust me i will spare them not, as i feel many have let us down and cannot be trusted…..but that is another topic.The constitution so far has not hampered investor confidence and our economy is growing.Lets build on it and not destroy the little we have achieved.

79. #78,Pundit,I am looking at it from a Cost-Benefit point of view.Of course we cannot negate developing these sectors.However,the government’s stance is that of a referendum, which in my opinion,will be even more costly,not just financially but retrogressively affect our country if a level-headed constitution is not enacted.We will suffer even more irreparable damage.

80. Kasanda my brother if there are no crisis hey then do you cry foul of the existing constitution. I thought you want a new constitution which will stand the test of time. Pundits 78# I have found your reasoning always good can you shade more why popi are cry for new constitution after 43 years of independence. Someone above is refuse that all is not well but advocating for change of the COZ. What is this are we wasting time discussing or you making constructive contributions to the Nation. Plzi help nipapa. Ba Joze is a become a bogy with is Kaponya boys at Inters today he is in bad mood because we took him task of reading his book again the RUfqua and start fundraising for the 2011.

81. Ba Easy(80), nachiba noku ponena muma pint nomba madam nasenda fund ku Constitutional Review Salary and Allowance account!!!We all agree that certain aspects of the existing constitution need to be changed/removed and some things included.The problem is how are we going to do it…and when!!We cannot change it until we have referendum(very costly)we cannot have a referendum until we have a census(very costly)we need all want a CA(very very costly).Ba Easy,tuleke ukulungisha imisebo,twishita umuti,twipela UNZA indalama ishakwana and do this now?? Epo fishupile mwentungulushi shesu!! Ba Joze wants another Intercity to grow his business,but if we do all this now, even the one he is operating from is in danger!! Any ideas from that book of yours??

82. People of Zambia don’t be fooled, there is no way the gov’t can say this or that is costly because the Zambian mines for example made US$ 400 million dollars just last year in 2006!! How then does the gov’t come up with stories like this or that will /or is costly? Surely can’t we get a good constitution either via CA or whatever other democratic way that people generally agree to have a good people oriented document? Can’t we even have some “change” for infrastructure, mass employment creation and good well supplied health centres, good schools etc? But this same levy and co. allows all that money to be taken by foreigners and then they turn around and claim that there is no money? That is pure nonsense on the part of politicians. The biggest problem we have is that we have not moved away from mental slavery bcoz this document everyone is talking about is a colonial document written by Britain to rule and control us.I say let’s burn the costitution and have a new one!!

83. 50+1 is all what you need and what if not party reaches this what is the alternative. Can remember when KK lost to FTJ he proposed a coalition govt but our constitution has no such provision. Many western countries have 50+1 and not only that also the nummber of seats a party get counts once they get to twothird majority they are eligible of being in govt because they can make reforms. If no part get more votes then a coalition govt should be made in the interest of the nation instead of having staginant situation. Why should be so difficult to repeal the laws when they are found not to suit the current sitaution. In some countries parliament or the president can table a motion of no confidence, its debated and voting taking place. Such measure are not costly business of the house goes no whilst this other process are taking place.

84. Ba Joze have you gone kuma Orders your friends are attending interparty meeting today in Lusaka to discusse constitution process. Are you attending I believe not because your party has no name mwalilaba bakamba to form a party but just rushed to appoint ministers. You see now who has lapse of memory is it you or me. If you can forget some many things like converging a meeting I afraid we heading in the ditch. On a serious note hoping those in power and opposition gave come out of good result as far as new COZ is concerned. Kuku which way are we okay after the drinking spill bamulaba ukuboka. A when was the first constitution commission review what was the name given to it. Iam not asking you for funny but I want us to educate the popi of Zambia to understand what is meant by CA or Refrendum. Who chaired this CRC and why was it called and how did the govt of the reacted. If cant answer I know Paparazzi or Pundit will help since you older than mean and you have made meaningful contr…

85. ctd… ibution I know you will get it right. Plz educate our fellow blogers here that the president has immunity from proscution when he is still in power but these doesnt imply that he is above the law. His duties are well defined so are his powers that is where the problems Iam not a lawyer but I took interest to know the laws and rules of my nation at at an early stage, starting with the Bill of Rights.

Comments are closed.