THE PF/UPND Pact is neither sustainable nor viable because of the ethnic and regional support bases mainly among the Bemba and Tonga speaking people, an opinion poll conducted by the Centre for Policy Dialogue (CPD) has revealed.
The poll conducted in five provinces of Zambia indicates that because of the ethnic and regional dynamics, the pact alienates other non-Bemba and non-Tonga tribes and has the potential to induce an anti-Bemba and anti-Tonga political mobilisation.
More than 1,000 respondents in the five provinces were sampled, giving a confidence level of 95 per cent reliability, with a margin of error of +/-2.
The poll conducted last month over a two week period in Lusaka, Southern, Copperbelt, Luapula and Northern provinces interviewed 50 per cent women and 50 per cent men.
The tribal inclinations of the respondents could be seen in the choice of candidate between the two leaders.
PF president Michael Sata and UPND leader Hakainde Hichilema’s support was drawn almost exclusively from their ethnic bases.
Of the Bemba speaking people surveyed for the poll, 65 per cent preferred Mr Sata compared to 20 per cent for Mr Hichilema as leader of the pact and 2011 presidential candidate.
The same was true for Mr Hichilema among the Tonga speaking ethnic group interviewees.
Of the Tonga speaking people surveyed for the poll, 67 per cent preferred Mr Hichilema compared to 13 per cent for Mr Sata as leader of the pact and possible presidential candidate in the 2011 polls.
The poll also revealed that between the UPND and PF, the latter has its highest support in Luapula, at 60 per cent but has the least support in Southern Province, at 17 per cent.
On the other hand, UPND enjoys maximum support in Southern Province, at 50 per cent and the lowest in Northern Province, at six per cent.
“While these survey results cannot easily be generalised for the whole population, they are highly representative of national public opinion in as far as the PF/UPND pact is concerned and electoral preferences of the electorate,” the poll reveals.
It is also clear that whoever is eventually selected to be the Pact presidential candidate would not necessarily receive endorsement of the other party to the pact.
While the results indicate that the supporters of the pact would have no problem supporting the other candidate in an event that their preferred choice was not selected, ethnic and regional dynamics would militate against that.
The findings of the poll strongly suggest that both PF and UPND are highly dependent on an ethnic vote and their support bases may not favour a situation where their candidate was not selected.
In the event that their preferred candidate was not selected, they would then prefer to go it alone.
Age and education are not significant factors in the support for both PF and UPND. What seems to be more important are tribe or ethnicity.
The dominant position of the Bemba-speaking people in the five provinces partly explains PF’s electoral support.
It would be important to undertaken a nationwide survey to determine the electoral support of Mr Sata and PF on one hand and that of Mr Hichilema and UPND on the other hand.
The poll report concludes that the PF/UPND Pact is not sustainable or viable given its ethnic and regional support bases drawn mainly among the Bemba and Tonga-speaking people.
The Pact potential alienates other non-Bemba and non-Tonga tribes, thus inducing an anti-Bemba and anti-Tonga political mobilisation.
[ Times of Zambia ]
N.O.N.S.E.N.S.E mmd propaganda
If you go into each other strongholds and carry out a poll, what do you expect? But the Copperbelt and Lusaka cosmolitan and thats where you find highest concentration of interlectuals and no bias. Even RB, when you do a poll in Estern Province, he will score more marks just like he did during election time. So dont limit to the two parties, this cuts across to include the MMD.
“Age and education are not significant factors in the support for both PF and UPND. What seems to be more important are tribe or ethnicity.
The dominant position of the Bemba-speaking people in the five provinces partly explains PF’s electoral support.”
But what do you expect from PF. This is why die hard PF cadres and bloggers insult in bemba on this blog. PF is the most tribal political party in Zambia’s history. That is the same reason the PF vuvuzela Post gives Mr. Sata headlines over Mr. Hichilema. PF is so tribal that most of their campaigns are in Bemba.
Regionalism of the PF will not develop Zambia. Is this the change you guys are talking about? change on regional grounds of the PF?
The MMD is the only party that is all inclusive and unites the nation.
It has always been a known fact but we pretend as though all is well. This country harbours high tribal preferrences but we cheat ourselves into believing all is well. We ned to tackle this problem as a nation or else it shall remain a time bomb with devastating effects at explosion. When you see national leaders use Bemba to address people in Western Province, or Lozi to address people in Mansa, then we have a problem. Certain leaders are shameless as they portray a picture that their language is superior to others. Let us give respect to every tribe. I have personally been abused by a Bemba man ( living in Lusaka) from Chief Nkula’s area who almost became physical simply because i didnt understand his Bemba saying! This Zambia belongs to all of us regardless of tribal size.
The strength of ruling party in Zambians history is bigger because they control resources to bribe and influence. Ruling [party finds it easier to bully Asian communities and Mines who are given supper conditions at the expense of Zambians to donate with a threat that Investors Chinese & Indians Mines (foreigners) investment will be taken away If MMD booted out.This goes onn until pipo get fed up like it is now wioth MMD. When the MMD lose next year, they will became a shell, a fossil like UNIP. Wait for 2011.
Oh dear And I thought Lozis were the Tribalists. Bembas want PF because of their man Sata and Tongas want UPND because of HH. Easterners are giving and will give unquestionable support to MMD because of RB. So the mo.ro.ns who like going after Lozis please shut up because in 1991 despite Arthur Wina losing the MMD to Luapula tribalist Chiluba Lozis still voted for Chiluba giving him 84% of votes in 1991 despite their man Wina losing out to Lazo. Now we are being told that Bembas will not vote for the PACT if HH is the Presidential candidate and Tongas as well will not vote for Sata if he’s the presidential candidate. Tell me who the tribalists are amongst the Bembas, Tongas and Lozis?
It iz very sad and dangerous that a government-run newzpaper, Times of Zambia, should report storiez that suggest that certain tribez in the country cannot co-exist. Am neither one of the mentioned tribez, but I see a lot of warm relations between them.
#6 don’t jump on your high horse and think your people are pure and holy(Lozis). Expand your vision and look at this on a broader picture, tribalism, favoritism, racism, segregation, you name it are all an off shoot of man nature to prefer what looks like him and so we pick race, tribe, career, religion or whatever. This is a sin we are all guilty of. As the bible puts it we are all sinners and we always tend to favour people like us. Last night I was watching a Champions league match and guess the team I wanted to win? Young Boys. Why because my fellow Zambian Mayuku plays for that club. We all have this animal in us to favour our own.
Solution is to put a system in place that gives everybody an equal chance. If a LOZI or Tonga was a VP when LPM died, today we would have had ..TBC
Jesus warned many believers that in the last days many will come in my name and say this and that. Do not listen to them
Today as we draw near elections many politicians will use all sorts of tricks to break the UPND/PF PACT. Be warned they are wolves. Tribalism here is picked as the tool in breaking up the PACT. Those who don’t think with their heads will easily embrace the allegations and make it their reality. NO! Use your own head to make judgements that will stand the test of time. It is easy to loose even that which is already in your hands. UPND/PF are about to win but they can easily split votes and lose. We are much better having both PF and UPND in govt than continue with MMD. The choice is yours. Tribes dont feed us. It is good leadership which will feed you.
Kaunda new why he used to sing “one Zambia one Nation”. He knew we all came from different tribes but needed to be reminded not to differ on tribal grounds but think we are one.
Personally I do not make decisions on tribal grounds. I am always aware what tribes are around me and behave carefully not to offend others. I am in an intermarriage and sometimes my relatives will comment on tribal grounds, same with my wife relatives but it is all good. We know we are not the same but also know we are not enemies. For Zambia to develop, it will only happen when the majority of Voters start focusing on issues being sold to them by politicians. We probably need a 100 years to became. Look how long it has taken America to have a black president. How long will it take for Britain, France etc.
ct from #8 ..if we had a VP who was Tonga when the president died , today we would have had a Tonga President same applies to any tribe. Chiluba picked somebody from a small tribe in Zambia as his replacement and he was accepted and voted twice into office by Zambians. We are all guilty of segregation and it is a system God put in us to make choices but it gets abused by us all. I used segregation to pick a wife, I used segregation to pick a secondary school I went to and the list goes on.
My point is let us not attack each other’s tribe for this or that. Lets offer solutions on how we can put in place a system that guarantees fairness for all. There is no such thing as good men. We are all sinners period, and need God’s grace.
It is a fact that the PACT is a real threat to the MMD and as such a lot of money has been used to bribe weak minds in both PF and UPND to start this nonsense of TRIBE. Am a Bemba speaker from Mambilima, Mwense, Luapula but if the pact went to a convetion and picked HH, I would welcome that outcome and give him my vote in2011
6
Chendabwamba -Read 12. All the talk is just as fictitious as an 007 film
I have no confidence in the LT but this survey seems to reveal the real issues on the ground and anyway-this is expect and more disaster is coming.Infact like the saying goes (Blood is thicker than water) its just natural to support your own unless its impracticle. The pipo in power ar the main causers of this problem coz of regional appointments,biased political campaign.
ITS A GOOD SURVEY INDEED,I WISH IT COULD GO FURTHER TO OUTLINE THE MAIN FACTORS THAT LEAD TO TRIBALISM–I.E ANY KEY PREFERNCES ATTRIBUTED TO TRIBE INCLINATION.
this is all crap and evill..please stop this propaganda..don’t bring tribal politics here ..
How many useless kantemba organizations like CPD is our tax money being wasted on?
this is part of MMD’s propaganda from the chief adviser (RIGGER) V.J.
trump cards at play….tribal wars…used to the maximum is all that remains and they know it.
Some langwages are too difficult to learn while Bemba, Nyanja are easy. Tonga is also a bit easy to learn to some extent. But others like Lozi, lunda, Chokwe, Luvale etc are very difficult. Thats why a lot of people prefare to speak the two. its not tribal, please lets not bring tribalism into this. We are all ZAmbians and lets learn to live together
Am glad NEVERS MUMBA has told off his fellow clergemen to be able to critisize the govt. Check it out. These guys know how to hibernet only when it comes to state functions and you will see them presenting presents to one RB. May God judge us as they say-the worst place in hell is reserved for those who see wrong and still remain nuetral- About tribalism-MMD BOOTLICKER-you are right. When i was watching the game, i wanted TH to win because am against the dubious transfers KALU has been money-milking these kids & am glad MAYUKA did not come on at all. These are personal preferences-I must say that lets still hold the one zambia one nation thing as we all know, it has done us good since independence. Lets uphold HH or SATA on meritorious grounds & not their skin or linguistic basis. we can!
Mubiana should stand then…a woman prezidento would be refreshing…and no, am not from western province…
My question is how are they going to chose amongst themselves who will stand as president or are they both standing. If they are both standing then they should forget beating MMD
Can never be a better research report than this.Tribal parties led by tribal warlords cannot preside over a process of building a democratic multiethnic state. Fortunately most Zambians are not tribal fundamentalists like Sata, Kambwili, Sanda, Sejani, IIchilema, Madyenkhuku, Fred M’membe and Frank Bwalya. Sata is the worst vicious tribal chieftain ever in competitive politics this country has ever had.
Opposition politicians have a lot to do with this tribalism. In desperation they work night and day to make sure that Zambians replace their religious faith and political beliefs with tribal extremism. This helps them disguise their ineffectiveness by vainly smearing the tribe that holds the presidency with all sort of malice.
” UPND is like buttocks that will never come in front and HH is an amature provincial leader” said sata.In retareation;” Sata is a useless old man who backs anyhow like a dog and he is not leadership material” said HH.now you !diots did you really think these two hypocrytes could work together?
Sata and Ichilema are generals in a continuous tribal conflict.
This is all nonsense! It took Tongas and Bembas working together to rid Zambia of the British colonialists.Today MMD propaganda wants to say Tongas and Bembas cannot co-exist, utter nonsense.Before and since independence Bembas and Tongas have always offered opposition to corrupt Zambian governments.
Sata and Ichilema even before smealing power are now locked in tribally motivated political struggle that could tear the country apart if ever tried. Sata is under pressure to deliver on behalf of his uneducated and lazy unproductive dependent tribesmen who may not be willing to wait indefinitely before they ever come to power.
Ichilema, on the other hand, has his tribal fundamentalist as advisors like Sejani, Mwananjiti and such, who fear that a Sata presidency would put their wealth at risk. They have reason to be afraid understanding the incorrigible hatred, envy and unpredictability of Sata who has no respect of institutions, democracy and constitution.
I wouldn’t count on this poll because it isn’t credible and I do agree with #2.
The debate about tribalism, ethinical inclinations and any other verses that tend to favor one because of belonging to that sect are disgusting. I agree with any one else believing that this problem is real and is present with us. its unfortunate that government and media are ignoring to open up debates time and again talking about its criminal part of this war. some tribes feel to be more superior than the other because the appointing authorities have decided to do that way. I am jus warning the ation and my fellow bloggers that the Lozis are up for a bigger war never experinced in southern africa. loo at the demands they have submitted to the CRC. someone shud realise that something is coming-up. It is of this cause that the appointing authorities ( OP permanent secretaries and Officers
Hehee…now we know who are killing the PACT – MMD and its papers. This survey is not efficient nor empirical in its findings if ever it was carried out. Check this on the analysis please.
1) The analysis has just taken Southern, Luapula and Northern pronvices leaving out copperbelt and Lusaka where all tribes of zambia are.
2) The analysis has just taken the two tribes(bemba and tonga) into consideration leaving out other tribes.
3) the analysis has just given percents of Tongas and Bembas and not the figures of the total sample of both Tongas and Bembas in the survey
4) The analysis on a whole has failed to give the general stand point of the 5 provinces surveyed.
In view of the above inconsiderations, this survey is deemed biased and as such it is all rubbish.
It is of this cause that the appointing authories ( OP permanent secretaires and the Officers selection board at ZDF HQ) in security wings are so careful to appoint either Lozis or Tongas to top security positions. At UNZA some lectures are predoniately known for their tribal characteristics. Students are fearing putting their names on the assignments because some lectures with either give them bad grades on tribal bases. this unfortunate and am saddened by this trend which shud be denounced bby every reasoning zambian.
i think by now we all know that the zambian masses need the pact for redemption or let me put it this way just some sort of RELIEF. and we know those not only wishing but midwifing the arbotion of the people’s only HOPE – the pact.
I don’t believe in the so called opinion poll, because if you remember, someone wrote the same sheet in times of zambia that according to the poll conducted in chifubu, ngambi’s MMD was going to win the by-election but it proved otherwise, infact these NGO’s are not even political pundits, what comes out from there research is total rubish, don’t divide zambians with your tribal reporting please, can someone stop this Nonsense.?
Senior Citizen mafi yobe wembushi!! Come 2011 you will vanish koswe!!
It is so sad to have the Gonvt papers encouraging and entrenching trabalism. I have never heard it since my birth. Instead of preaching one Zambia one nation we have LT preaching hatred of tribe against tribe.
LT, why sure? I thought LT was a good blog but alass I was wrong. Just see how LT and Times and daily mail are fueling tribalism in Zambia especially between Tongas and Bembas.
Shame to you LT and your fellow evill Gonvt papers. You should be ashamed LT that every day you are there to fuel tribalism in the country. Why cant you promote and preach one Zambia one nation?
LT you have disappointed me ….I cant understand why you are so bent to encouraging tribalism LT.
Ba LT you have lost all your principles…..its so sad LT.
The MMD full throttle trying to destroy the PACT cause it has a strangle vice on their throat. I expect them to come out like this, but the Zambians are abe to see through this poll and analysis that it is flawed before it was even started. The PACT has given them sleepless nites. They Know it’s survival will spell DOOM to the MMD. The PACT will survive, the PACT will kick MMD out.
#36 Yes, it is so sad that the Govt controlled and state owned media (times of Zambia) is being used to be in the forefront to peddle tribal sentiments. meanwhile the MMD Controlled and owned Govt., says it not tribal. Very confusing MMD as usual thats there hallmark. I ask the question: Why is MMD fearing to lose POWER? Any answer from Bloggers.
Regrettably, as a popular African adage saying goes, when two elephants fight, it’s the grass that suffers. Whatever showdown emerges between these two tribal diehards, will involve tribal sentiments. My fear is that if both sides fail to agree to share power, they will summon their tribal militia of poor people to do their dirty work for them against each other which they call Chawama or Matatizya formula.
THE RESEARCH OR OPINION POLL CONDUCTED WAS JUST A HEAP OF CRAP TO DISCREDIT THE PACT. PF IS VERY POPULAR IN BIG AND METROPOLITAN CITIES SUCH AS LUSAKA, NDOLA, KITWE, ETC. WOULD YOU CONCLUDE THAT ONLY BEMBAS LIVE IN BIG CITIES? YOU WILL BE SURPRISED THAT THE PACT WILL WORK. AND IT WILL WORK. IN FACT, THIS IS THE RIGHT TIME TO CRITICISE IT WHEN WE STILL HAVE CHANCE TO MAKE CORRECTIONS. WHAT ABOUT THE CONFUSION IN MMD WHICH HAS NO PACT WITH ANY OTHER PARTY, AT ALL?
#8 and 11 MMD Chief Bootlicker….on your comments today, you have earned my respect. You have put it exactly the way it is. Lets not pretend, its naturally for like to favour like. Its not coincidence that Obama got the majority of the black vote or that Hilary Clinton got the majority of the Hispanic vote! What we need are systems that will give equal oppotunity to every one. If Zamba only had one tribe, people like Sata would have finished already coz they are no substance but becoz of tribal affiliations, he is a contender.
We need federal states in Zambia and very little powers in the presidency. If we decentralise, it will be more important who the local governor is than who the president is. Let the prez be voted from among the MPs and this should be rotating….just toughts!
#38, THE reason they want to erase the ‘abuse of office’ is the SAME reason they don’t want to get out of office. They have abused their offices and previldges, stollen, compromised the laws of the country, covered and still covering thieves as they are also thieves, they have never done what they promised the people and the list is endless. Thats why they see the pact a BIG threat to them and to them they should frastrate it to doom. But, they wont succeed. I don’t think Zambian people are that stu.pid now.
Am happy that finally people have now realised that this thing of accussing each other of being tribal is all political hogwash – we are all the same. The Bembas have in the past potryed themselves as the patriots while everyone else was potryed as tribal if he did not agree with them. We were told;
Tongas – Tribal
Lozis – Tribal
Ngonis – Tribal
and now finally we are told
Bembas – tribal!
Some people will shout that we stop talking about tribal issues, NO! thats wrong, if there is a problem, we should talk about it. The current tribal talk in zambia is healthy, it will help to resolve the problem instead of burrying it and living with prejudices. Lets put in sytems that will give everyone equal oppotunity. Decentralisation is key!
Tonga and Bemba can work together and will continue to do so. The story is from Times of Zambia and I have mixed blessings . Good day.
MMD Chief Bootlicker my bro for the first time I am impressed with you comments @ No. 8
I read alot on this blog and rarely comment. keep this spirit of been objective and may the Good Lord richly bless you for this.
Two issues: One; ‘No one can climb your back unless you offer it. I personally find comments accusing outsiders as the masterminders of the seemingly disoriented ‘pact’ quite interesting. Why have they, the leaders of the pact, allowed their rivals to come among and between them? Two; Tribal politics if not regional politics is a reality we can’t deny in Zambia. This is one of the consequences of multipartism. Finger-pointing shall not benefit anyone. What matters most is to educate each other to look beyond the tribe or region of origin whem election of our leaders comes.
#30 Iwe Cheelost stop spreading lies. When were you born? How can Lozis start a so called war that has never been experienced in Southern Africa? Do they have an Army? Can you name one Lozi who says he or she wants war or is preparing for war? You are certainly a tribalistic i.d.i.ot. You are a very anti Lozi m.o.r.on. This thread is about Northerners and Southerners saying that they will not vote for one of the PF candidates if anyone of the two is selected. I agree with #6 Chendabwamba who has pointed out that Lozis still voted for Chiluba and MMD in 1991 even when their man Arthur Wina was by passed for the Presidency. Add to this Aka who was also by passed for the Secretary Generalship in favour of Sata. Did Lozis throw tantrums like the Northerners and Southerners are now doing?
32 cheeslot Iwe you are sick. Are you honestly saying that there is a deliberate national policy to exclude Lozis and Tongas from important positions in government? If this is not tribalism how else would you describe tribalism? Unlike you I know the history of Presidential appointments in the security wings. First during Kaunda’s reign no Northerner or Luapulan was ever entrusted with the position of commander in the defence forces. Kaunda relied on the so called smaller tribes and also Easterners to head the defence forces and security wings. The odd one out was Malimba Masheke a Lozi as Defence forces commander in the 80s. Intelligence services were a preserve of Easterners.
Trabalism will not feed the people of Zambia. Tribalism does not reward but entrenches suffering of the majority poor Zambians. Who ever is in state house just eats with his children, friends and relatives, he does not think of me nor you who is encouraging tribalism.
Zambia needs change of Govt coz the current Govt is useless as reflected by its leader RB 99% absence from Zambia since he became president. The MMD thugs have stolen a lot and now want to solidify their theft by holding on to power by all means. Hence there fueling tribalism in the Country.
Zambians let us be warry of these devils in MMD. Its us who will continue suffering while the MMD thugs will continue enjoying our copper with the chinese. Just imagine how we are living as refuges in our own country….shame.
Bane, the objectivity of the research is demonstrated by the “reliability, validity and confidence levels” that the researched documents expaunds. I see non of this in the Times of Zambia, and as such, I wouldnt even bother. And 46 people who are not even voters are busy analysing the isssue based on baseless research foundations. Shame.
I like these results especially the conclusion “In the event that their preferred candidate was not selected, they would then prefer to go it alone” which directly tells MMD to forget getting the UPND votes as HH may have to get his UPND expanding in the 2011 elections even if he doesnt manage to form GRZ Administration..
On “The poll also revealed that between the UPND and PF, the latter has its highest support in Luapula, at 60 per cent but has the least support in Southern Province, at 17 per cent… UPND enjoys maximum support in Southern Province, at 50 per cent and the lowest in Northern Province, at six per cent.” this settles the fact that late UPND leader Mazoka was not voted for by Luapulans and Northerners on tribal lines in 2011 elections.
Be blest all…
#32 Cheeslot. Upon taking over in 1991 Chiluba changed the defence, security and intelligence personnel and proceeded to appoint Northern and Luapulans to head the various defence, security and intelligence services. Remember how a junior intelligence operative in Ndola by the name of Xavier Chungu a Luapulan was catapulted to head the Zambia intelligence service. The then director a Phiri and various other heads of directorates were summarily dismissed and replaced with Northerners and Luapulans. So iwe Cheeslot stop your stupid diatribe against Lozis and Tongas because intelligent people actually know how Zambia is run.
By the way iwe Cheeslot on a comparative basis Chiluba was the most tribal compared to Levy and RB. Chiluba extended his tribalism even to the arena of national economic management. Chiluba only appointed either Northerners or Luapulans not only to head the the Defence wings or Ministries of Home Affairs and Defence but also Commerce and Finance. Look at Chilubas finance Ministers: Kasonde Northerner, Penza Northerner, Nawakwi, Northerner, Kalumba Luapulan. Levy’s Kasonde Northerner and Magande Southerner. RBs Musokotwane Westerner. Stop your diatribe against Lozis and Tongas these two have never put anybody in State house for you to come up with stu/pid and unfounded opinions.
#2, “……but the Copperbelt and Lusaka cosmolitan and thats where you find highest concentration of interlectuals and no bias……”
A large majority of bloggers on LT are from Lusaka and Copperbelt. Do you mean to say that the no.nse.nse that we read everyday is your interpretation of intellect? My foot, I think the rural dwellers are miles more sensible and intelligent.
#32 Cheeslot I have also been at UNZA and I never came across any lecturer who was a tribalist be they Lozi or Tonga or any other tribe. If indeed you established that the Lozi and Tonga Lecturers were tribalists did you as a responsible citizen bring this and your proof to the attention of the authorities? If you did not you are certainly an i.d.i.ot who shouldnt be taken seriously. I think you are a university drop out because of the dullness you inherited from your intellectually deficient parents. It has nothing to do with either the Lozi or Tonga lecturers who might have taught you in any of the courses. You are an intellectual midget and your material poverty has nothing to do with Lozis or Tongas. Zwa and get lost. Go back and climb the tree you dropped from.
On “The dominant position of the Bemba-speaking people in the five provinces [namely Lusaka, Southern, Copperbelt, Luapula and Northern provinces] partly explains PF’s electoral support” as a regional political party supported by Bemba-Speakers [43% Bemba speakers are a combination of Bemba by tribe people and non-Bemba-tribe people like Kaponyas and Bisa tribe Mr PF/Sata MC alleged to be from Tanzania], but the real Bemba tribe people are only 18% in Zambia about equal in number to the Tonga tribe people. The Nyanjas are a combination of Eastern Provice people and they are about 19% as a whole. Thus, some people in the 43% Bemba speakers will vote for other parties other than PF.
So, dont worry about the Bemba-tribalists on this blog and in Zambia.
_
Matt 6:33
The Centre for Policy Dialogue is headed by a prominent intellectual and has always accurately predicted presidential election results in Zambia.
They were widely quoted and publicised in the Post, but they parted company in 2008 when mmembe tried to manipulate some poll results to suit his own ends. The poll had predicted that the election would be close but Sata would lose.The CPD would have none of this and mmembe condemned and banned them, but not before he had issued a few unpalatable but customary editorials that he reserves for people who do not toe his line. When you talk do not ignore history.
Whoever said presidency is between Bemba & Tonga. Alipena! What i know is that anyone can stand even one guy scot,or Findlay.For authenticity’s sake we need the writer’s name not an unknown thing and who knows maybe its LT and their MMD propaganda.
As for “The poll also revealed that between the UPND and PF, the latter has its highest support in Luapula, at 60 per cent but has the least support in Southern Province, at 17 per cent… UPND enjoys maximum support in Southern Province, at 50 per cent and the lowest in Northern Province, at six per cent this is a clear testimony that Bemba Speakers are more regional/tribal supporters of the Bemba tribe political party/leaders than the mighty Tonga Speakers of Southern Province.
6% UPND support in Northern Province and 60% support of PF in Luapula Province is clear that Bemba Speakers are very tribal in their support. 50% UPND maximum support and 17% PF lowest support in Southern Province indicates that Tonga Speaking people are less tribal than Bemba ones.
_
Matt 6:33
47, 48, 52, 53 Machambuzi….your analyses are very correct. FTJ hid his tribalism by saying that he was appointing on merit. He even extended to parastals and one Sata even confirmed by saying that Chiluba had appointed Bembas to most important positions and that the latter should not let him down. When this happened, no one shouted ‘Tribal’! but why they accuse others of being tribal beats me. Now I understand when they say that a thief thinks everyone is a thief. The Mine in solwezi has/had a bemba HRM and complaints are that he is filling it with his tribesmates….go check the records
CONCLUSSION: Bembas are tribalists but very canning so that you dont see their tribal tendencies! The way they rejected Mazoka and the way they have embraced Sata….amazing!
Sata and HH are arrogant politician that why the Pact has failed. Spare us all these bull ###
60# I think most people do what you are talking about. I cant just narrow it to Bembas alone. Look at Muvi TV its easterners, the Police is full of Lozis and Tongas. Yes Chiluba gave bembas prominent positions , mwanawasa did the same even RB has done the same. Its a sad situation but we need to move from it. When you finish your school at Unza or college when looking for a job dont you drop your CV everywhere but only have hope where you know someone! just how sad. If you dont know anyone you end up being a security officer..like one graduate is doing from UNZA from G4c , can you imagine.
Unfortunetly on the Presidency it seems having a leader from your tribe means that now your tribe is ruling and hence the jobs which we are talking about.
We are doomed the earlier we realise t
This is a very interesting research and would help the country.However,i should inform the research that he only took a smple of 1000 out of a pupulation of 12,000,000.This itself is very poor and puts the credibility of the findings in question.honesty what percntage is that.mathematically you should pick a least 50% of the population in order to have results that are close to accurate.Mr. Researcher before you come to conclusion about tribalism you should re visit your research.
we are doomed indeed, i pray that Zambia can move over this , now our politics is about which tribe is he. If today you carried out an anaylsis on Tongas , Easterns and Bembas, for sure they will support their national to be the president . we dont look at the quality thats why such a unless candidate like RB or SATA will still have alot of support regardless of the quality we get in them.
I think to be fair HH is a credible candidate who can transform Zambia same goes for Milupi or Chipimo but alas they are popular….if you say HH they will say Tribal, true came in crookedly but do u see quality given the circustance.If you say Milupi they will tell you ati his LOZI…..if you say Chipimo ati no his young besides they will say no he formed his party to disturb the PACT .
On “Age and education are not significant factors in the support for both PF and UPND. What seems to be more important are tribe or ethnicity” this appears to be carefully crafted probably so that the MMD sends a message to all Zambians that Mr President RB Banda who is age-mates with Mr PF/unelected self-appointed leader has a chance to recieve many votes from Zambians in the 2011 elections.
I wish this research will be extended to Northwestern, Western, Central and Eastern provinces. If such is done, I implore the researchers to include questions like:
Can you vote for a:
a) person who promised to disregard our Constitution — rule upto 2013 when 2011 are elections?
b) liar?
c) tribalist?
4. school drop-out who claims to have 2 degrees without proof?
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Matt…
62, 64 dogma998…I agree on your reaction to #60…my brother I feel your pain, be sure its mine too. Unfortunately, the media is not helping either. Look at the POST, their support for Sata, is it on merit or what?….such a shame!
Let Zambia have semi autonomous federal states so that the president has little powers to influence the citizens daily lives. This way, people will care less about who is the president. It will be more important who your MP or local governor is. If a state chooses a baffon to lead them, they will lag behind while other states move on. This way, people will be more objective.
#19 Malume have you for a moment ever considered for a moment that your inability to speak Lozi, Tonga or whatever other language has nothing to do with the degree of difficulty of these languages but that you are just daft. If a Lozi can speak Nyanja, Tonga and Bemba why cant you? What we need in Zambia is something like the South African solution. Speak your Zulu and I will answer you in my Sotho. If you do not understand then butt off! Actually this is the policy I am operating here in London. If you approach me speaking your so called mother tongue I will also answer you in my tongue
In all, Im asking the mighty UPND Team to seriously use this research outcome to restrategise its position and message to the Zambian voters. Also, the mighty UPND Team must carry out its own independent similar research in all the 9 provinces of Zambia but the questionnaires must be more inquisitive by including my above suggested questions as well as others so that it measures its popularity across the country as it prepares to go it alone in the 2011 tripartite elections.
The UPND research can also include questions like:
Do you think, UPND must adopt another 2011 presidential candidate and give his/er name?
Have a blessed day all. Pplease to not disregard this article’s data but embrace the results so that you can reposition yourself to become relevant to voters.
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Matt…
Maestro Hhehhehhehhe you are one silly tribalistic donkey
#67 Machambuzi….I speak Lozi, Bemba, Tonga, Ngoni, Lenje, Luvale, Kaonde. Why should someone say some languages are difficulty? These are the same people who come from the provinces where the cut of points for G7 and G9 were always the lowest….guess they are just dull. I will also adopt your policy man. Someone speaks to me in their mother tongue, I will be responding in mine. If they dont understand….they can butt off for sure!
Maestro Hhehhehhehhe no matter how much you attack Sata, he has equal chances of being President like HH. So try to be less tribal as you yap around
MMD b**l!
As long as the Zambian people do not do the right thing RB and his fellow failures will carry the day..our solution in the opposition getting together beyond ethnic groupings and selfishness and move forward otherwise we are doomed
About some lecturers being tribalist at Unza, its true. Someone told me that there is at Unza a group that speaks only a certain tribe. And they have vowed to increase their population so that they can rule Zambia by ensuring that everyone of their tribe should have not less than 5 children otherwise that one is put to task. If you want to prove this carry out an investigation
Looking at the comments on this blog, one realises that not so much work has been done to unite the various tribes in Zambia. It is like the way we were in the 70’s. Then again when you think about it, we are the same people that embraced people from the neighbouring countries (Tanzania, Malawi, Zimbabwe) who came to work in the mines on the Copperbelt. Some could not even speak any of our languages and yet lived with them in harmony. I tend to think that the Copperbelt is Zambia where people live in unity regardless of their tribe. We must discard this tribal thing for no one tribe is superior to the other. May be when this older generation which has dominated politics since the federation, has come to pass things would change for the better.
i see a Rwanda coming to zambia
No one in their right mind can agree with this survey its rubbish. Lets throw it in the bin where it belongs
This coalition was done way too fast, mwe!
They should have pended until maybe towards the end of December. But then again, I think that it’s good that the cracks are showing now, so that they can me sorted out come election time.
The other danger is that this could be the demise of a proper challenger to the rotten MMD. This might give them the ammo to totally destroy the credibility and and at the same time character assassinate both parties in the coalition.
Guys, for the sake of change, mend the fence before it’s game over.
Well, I can asure you that if they put sata, the pact will loose, this is the fact. you do not need anybody to tell you. If they put HH, they will win. My analysis is based on this research, southern, central, lusaka, north-western, copperbelt will vote for the pact and if god willingly they will also get western, there is more light to negotiate western province if you put HH than sata. so we need this man HH..!!!! Not this rotten teeth of yours. sata has been in governemnt for over 40 years, what has he done. infact sata is more of MMD than Banda. This is the reason other province will not vote for sata at all cost. You put somebody who is fresh and new not this old man…!!!!
There may be some differences in the PF-UPND these can still be healed except that the MMD has mounted a vigorous campaign to discredit it. All sorts of tactics are being applied to ensure that the Pact does do not enter the 2011 General Elections with a single candidate. Those who want change should be be on Red Alert. Its not about Tonga/Bemba Alliance its a matter of inducing change coz MMD has run out of ideas and diverted from the original TRUE BLUE which we campaigned to bring about Democracy. Today even those who once fought tooth and nail to block MMd from forming Govt are inm the forefront. What a Crazy situation Ba William Banda was he not the guy who used to beat up chief executives etc run up to 1991 General Elections. what has changed of him WAKE UP PIPO TIME IS NOW for Pact
Chief Bootlicker #8&10, you raise an excellent point about all of us being guilty of being inclines to our own, be it by tribe, gender, race, etc. If Chipolopolo was going against Ghana at the world cup, would we still be supporting the Black Stars? Machambuzi #67 I agree with you that it is ridiculous to blame ones own ability to learn other languages on the level of difficulty or easiness. Also what Zambia needs is a president that can turn Zambia around (positively!) not reduce it to tribal politics or insisting on using their own language. Aside from a few tribal extremists, I think most Zambians can easily arise above the tribal issue.
#52. Are you sure the Northerners were given the jobs? If you check properly you will find that the people appointed were from Luapula not Northern Province.
Whats the argument here …the Pact is intactits the other group which is more divided than ever…impombo,mr economy,yewe, our lady and shaka the Zulu are stirring the soup ..Lets see how far this will go…please the other group give back mr economy his cell phone,lwenu the economic english mukofwa nga ama english batuma
It is rare to come across confindent people that blame everything for everything. Not very confindent people will blame tribe, education, riches or lack of it for the behaviour pattern, to an extent that hopelessness becomes the order of the day. Zambia unfortunately has reached that level because everything around us is being blamed on everything else. We have ended up as a nation with little belief in ourselves, rather we have tended to burry our heads in the sand hoping for someone else to tell us that tribe, educational levels, political affiliations, health status, etc etc should not be the deciding factors in charting a properous Zambia for ourselves or our children.
It’s now very clear that RB owes chiluba something VERY BIG. It is very likely that chiluba connived with RB when he was VP and came up with a plan to assassinate Mwanawasa. This would allow RB take over the presidency and in turn set chiluba free as pay back. Chiluba knew very well that with Mwnawasa at the helm, he would surely go to jail. The biggest mistake Levy made was to appoint this shameless corrupt opportunist, RB, as VP. That was indeed a costly blunder that cost him his life. RB in tandem with George orchestrated the meanest move against their appointing authority, Levy, and sold him off at the alter of expediency. RB, George and Chiluba truly have blood on their hands!!
#81 Jane….nail it my sister. some politician goes round the whole country campaigning in bemba,some tabloid tells us that bemba should be Zambia’s national language and then the tabloid supports this politician, is it all coincidence????? While the rest of the country sung ‘one Zambia, one Nation’ this politician begun accusing other parties of being tribal just because their leaders were not bemba, the same person went round cheating our bemba friends that LPM was persecuting bembas using fake plunder cases and that he will free FTJ. Using the advice of the same tabloid that bembas make more than 40% of Zambia, this politician thought he will easily win using the tribal card! Zambia is bigger than one tribe and all Zambians are nice people!….ABASH extremist tabloids and…
The infallible word of the lord given to his man servant FJT Chiluba is tallying right in our time. Its manifesting itself with haters dissipating and agonizing in envy, hatred and loses. The lord said to FJT Chiluba, “only with your very own eyes shall thou behold, And see the reward of the wicked dissipated. For Jehovah is your refuge! He has made the Most High your indisputable habitation. He said here shall be no will of the evil ones befalling you never (Psalm 91:2,7-10). This is all manifesting in this time.
As seen by the hallucination of # 85, hate groups are confused on God’s promise to his servants.In just a little while, and all the wicked ones will be no more; though you look for them, they will not be found. But the meek will inherit the earth and enjoy great peace and affluence. (Psalm 37: 10,11)
Psalm 105:15 “Do not touch my anointed ones; do my prophets no harm.” says the Lord God all mighty.
# 85 is confused and cursing himself with under 5 lies when we all know that God called Mwanawasa following many years of poor healthy and excessive travelling. Who doesn’t know that Mwanawasa went on his third time stroke, was diabetic, BP patient, explosively short tempered yet over stretched himself with global trips? At the time of death, Ley had made 67 international flights and was badly damaged in 2006 stroke? Levy had half of his body completely dead for over many years.
#87 , 88 Senior Citizen….stop the blasphemy lest God punish you! is Chiluba God’s annointed???? what does the bible say on divorce? did he not divorce his own wife and caused another marriage to break so he could marry some one’s wife? As far as bibilical principles are concerned, FTJ is aldulterating.
Dont take your peace too far….you know the schemes behind FTJ ‘s ‘freedom’ and then you want to use God’s word to cover them! – stop it! these are not the dark ages when the Popes used God’s word to deceive people of their true nature!
MMD Chief Bootlicker: For a change I agree with your comments on #8 & 11. I hope you won’t turn round and claim someone is impersonating you. I hope you can educate your buddy senior Citizen that calling others tribal yet masking your own tribalistic nature is the worst form of hypocrisy. Most of the comments above indicate that there is a realisation amongst most zambians that tribalism is a cancer we should all work hard to eradicate. As a nation we need to discuss this issue and find ways of preventing our tribal feelings from permeating our thoughts and deeds.
Wat a politcal twist=turn of events.
Watch out for Southern headlines in every news tabloid.its amazing tat every zambian is now feeling the heat of southern.> while Radio Pheonix has specialised in reporting negative news from districts of southern==Lusaka Times and Post are busy propaganding to discret the province at all costs.
BUT THE TRUTH > THEY ARE ALL FIGHTING A LOSING BATTLE.southern is just a hardnut to crack.
The truth of the matter is and according to the democratic rules is Sata should be the candidate as he commands more support than HH as evidenced by the results of the last two general elections. Just like in England, The current prime minister poled more than his deputy before they formed the coalition GOVT period. Its not about being young, educated, or where yor roots are etc its about the rules of democracy.
Wrong analysis Kizito, even my grade 2 kid can give you zero out of 100 on your analysis. Its not rocket science but simple arithmetic like (4.6 + 2.0) > 4.8. This simple eqn desribes the outcome of the last election where PF lost by a very small margin to MMD probably due to rigging if you look the difference betwen 4.6 and 4.8 and hence if we added 2 (UPND) to 4.6 which if PF, the sum of the electorated of PF and UPND will be much higher than that of MMD which will even the act of rigging out of reach. So guys in UPND please wakeup, you need us much more than we need you. Did you see the results of the last by election in eastern province , PF made some grounds there
No single tribe an destroy the Pact, as it was never founded by any single tribe but a Cry from the people. MMD continue with your hallucinations, the PACT is growing and stronger by the day.
This ‘opinion poll’ is biased and is not worth the space given it in the papers. However, I may hasten to add that the Post has contributed immensely to the rise of tribalism in Zedland with their unrelenting tribalistic allegations against everyone but MCS.
Personally, I have serious reservations about the validity of this opinion poll, unless some of the questions I have regarding the methodology used can be satisfactorily answered. The questions that need to be answered are: Who funded this opinion poll? Who was the principal investigator? What are his credentials, research pedigree, and political leanings? Remember he who pays the piper calls the tune.
What was the target population? In other words, how was the population from which the sample selected defined? What were the sampling units? Was this a household based survey or a street sample? Was account taken of the fact that, demographically, the provinces covered are very different? Put differently, did the pollster take account of the highly ethnically heterogeneous and cosmopolitan demographics of the Copperbelt in contrast to the more ethnically homogenous demographics of Southern, Northern, and Luapula provinces?
The sample size is given as 1,000 for five provinces covered. How was the sample selected? Was this sample selected proportionately to reflect population sizes of the provinces covered? Though information given on confidence levels and margin of error suggests that probability sampling was used, exactly which sampling design did the pollster use? Whether this was household based or a street sample, how was the decision made on who to interview? Indeed, who was interviewed at household level – the head of household or someone else? Who was interviewed if this a street sample? On the data collection, who was employed to conduct the interviews? Were these experienced or trained enumerators? I can go on and on, but let me rest my case here.
#96 Ricky Bobby….Sata may not live long enough to see the consequencies of his tribal politics, but if nature takes its course, Mmembe will live to see the results of his Tribal propanganda. If the Lozi people support Milupi the way the bembas have supported Sata, Mmembe will call the lozi as being tribal. He did the same to mazoka and his SP support. According to Mmembe, only bembas are free to support another bemba..any other tribe doing that its tribal. Only Sata is free to enjoy the support of his tribesmen any other politician its bantustan. He even refers to zambians as ‘our people’ who told him zambians are his people? ‘our people’ this. ‘our people’ that! does he own zambians? How about just saying ‘zambians’…good that people are now seing his schemes.
as long as maestro hehehehe AND HIS LOT behave in that manner these tribal fools will never rule we told you so before the elections that no way no chance will HH be president so long you base it on tonga lines
AND IN TRUE DEMOCRACY NO PARTY LEADER CAN LOSE 3 TIMES…HH IS A COOL LOSER:d
The truth of the matter is that Sata has garnered support by tribalism. No bemba would have voted for such a person(sata) if he was from any other tribe. Of all the presidential candidates zambia has ever had he ranks lowest with chakomboka and the frog that used to stand against KK. Zambia is sitting on a tribal landmine that has a potential of affecting future generations. The sata campaign has been supported by a number of prominent bemba individuals whose political pedigree goes back to the kapwepwe days. In fact chipimo was plan b in case sata is stopped. The upnd played into the hands of these individuals. Alot of zambians desire meaningful and genuine change but sata will not bring that instead he will bring chaos and disaster. Look objectively at all the potential candidates
Mmembe bias against the lozi’s and women is well known. His agenda is clear and evidently selfish. he is not concerned about the plight of zambians but about his own agenda. He was very close to baldwin nkumbula and aka but turned against them. He does not view magande as a sustainable candidate but he is very comfortable in an unholy alliance with sata, the same man he criticized so heavily in years past. wake up zambia before the thugs rape our nation
it’s naive for some fool to have eXpected this article tovcome out in the post.such news ngating sata makes make sick.so dont blame goverment media
Someone needs to get this Maestro a shrink before he ends up losing it.
#101 Frank Sichula: the problem with you and similar minded PF cadres is that you are the Bemba version of Hehehehe. You are even worse because you insult all tongas instead of targeting HH the way Maestro targets Sata.
#101 Frank Sichula….its either you are a f.ool or you are just a blinded tribal bigot. You support sata purely on tribal lines but you insult those who support other candidates even when the other candidates are better than your shifting sand thug….get a grip on life. Who the h.ell do you lot think you are?
While still at it, who has lost more elections, Sata or HH? who is banned from some countries, Sata or HH? Just like HH will never be president based on tribal lines, even your thug will never be president based on bembalism. If your thug was very popular, why did he lose in 2001, 2006, 2008?.
Some of you chaps are so used to living your lives by favours…get a life and learn to work on your own!….you are very S.illy!
inter married between tongas and bembas has less chance of survival than any of the two with any other tribe in Zambia. they could be some truth in the poll don’t ignore, the best is to work on it. after the last by election, i said that non of the parties has made any progress more especially in areas where they are less popular, so going it alone in 2011 will surely make RB a victor with or without rigging. mind you general election is not a by election. sata and hh if you’re not careful, you’ll be caught napping again.
BBC- who’ll rule zambia after 2011 elections?
SATA- RB stand a better chance though its 50/50.
BBC- why?
SATA- am a well known tribalist RB is not and if pact fails or decide to pick me as candidate all tongas will vote for RB.
BBC- and if HH is picked?
SATA- got upset and left the interview to smoock some cigarettes made of chamba
The Post should go to hell with its fake propanganda—–its a shame to use innocent people for personal gain.
THE MNEMBE NIGA IS A TRASH BELONG TO THE DUSTBIN.
HH IS TONGA AND SATA IS BEMBA AND THESE TWO TRIBES HATE EACH OTHER BCOS BEMBAS THINK TONGAS ARE DULL AND TONGAS THINK BEMBAS ARE THIEVES. THESE TWO ARE OIL AND WATER THEY WILL NEVER MIX
As a Luvale guy from Lukulu Western Province I am actually very scared of the prospects of a Sata Presidency. This is guy and his leutnants like Kambwili do not regard my ethnic group as equal citizens going by their prounuouncements in Luanshya in 2008. As one of the minority groups in Western Province I want to vouch for the decency of Lozis. We are now as a nation accustomed to accusations that any party formed by a Lozi is tribal. This always emanates from people from the two Northern Provinces. AG was christened a tribal party because it was led by Inonge but AG was beaten by Mazoka’s UPND in 2001 proving that Lozis dont vote on tribal lines. 2006 Sakwibas ULP was beaten by RBs MMD showing again that Lozis dont vote on tribal lines.
from 112…… Now you wont be surprised by the consistency of the tribal vote by the charlatans who shout loudest about the alleged tribalism of others. One thing the Bemba speakers of Northern and Luapula province have in common is that they have consistently voted for one of their own in the following elections:
1991 Kafupi
1996 Kafupi
2001 Sata
2006 Sata
2008 Sata
Honestly who are the tribalists?
Compare this to Lozis
1991 Kafupi
1996 Kafupi
2001 Mazoka (even when Inonge Lewanika was on the ballot)
2006 Mwanawasa
2008 RB
Enough said. So please stop this fingure pointing at Lozis because they are not the one infected with the tribalism virus. It seems it is just an epidemic confined to Bemba speakers. It is scary how some people would want to force Sata on the people of Zambia as the only so called ‘patriot’ of Zambia. No my friends you Bemba speakers have a tribal agenda as can be deduced from your voting behaviour. You seem to vote for your tribe and not necessarily the best qualified person for the job.
We need to honestly look at tribalism in our country if we are to move forward. The truth is that zambians have the capacity to co-exist and are generally peace loving. However, politics and how the national cake is shared brings about alot of tribal sentiment. It is a fact that there has been an attempt to malign and undermine some tribes since independecet and to promote others at the expense of others. There are zambians who grow up with amazing misconceptions about people from other tribes e.g. balishishita fye or kimasholi fela. We need to find a national identity that promotes hard work, honesty and fairness. Now in some cultures this is almost impossible as ubwaume is being bold enough to do the unspeakable. This combined with regional pride and shortsightedness excarbates the probl
Tribalism in Zed was started by Kaunda- who is Bemba in the following manner: Kaunda advocated for the promotion of Bemba and Nyanja as national languages, while other languages should be treated as mere domestic tribes. The doucment is there on language policy in independent Zambia.
The first tribe to reject this nonsense were lozis and revolted by conducting a failed coup. The second tribe to reject the nonses were the Kaondes through Mushara Mutamba Charo. These tribes suffered humiliation. Calling them names such lozis are tribal and selfish and Kaondes, Luvales, Chikwes are samazai. Now tell me who is tribal in this land? When pipo demand fair treatment they are called names. Is that what you call nationalism? Where did Zambia get reserves to be allowed by Britain to form BOZ?
Today lozis are called all foolish names because they are asking for their money that was used to form BOZ. Northrn rhodesia did not have any state reserves adquate enough to form BOZ and the difference was covered by lozis through thier hard eraned income from the Mines in RSA where they hard regional contract to in th gold mines throug Winela (Witwatersrand Native Labour Association).
As for the posibility of war to be waged by Lozis, the reality will emerge very soon. Kaunda was forced to change the constitution because of preasure from Lozi mafia (Pablo Escoba Sikota Wina, Arther Wina, Akashambatwa and then joined by Baldiwn Nkumbula, Patrick Mwanawasa, Chiluba, Where was the Micheal Sata then? If he is hero of change why was he scared to challge Kaunda? I can assure you in case you do not know that Lozis are Jews. They are all over Southern Africa, Namibia, RSA, Botswana and worse of it they have access to most angers RSA made weaponery which they can acquire using diamond. Treating other tribes as fools is not good. We are all equal in the hands of God. No tribe should assume superiority above the others as the case in Zambia is today
bufi ba makaka
Im just trying to tress the Machambuzi commenting and posting, he must be my family, my first cousin to say, Im in Namibia my father was Mr. Moses Machambuzi, any help? I have tried all means to tress him…