By Elias Munshya wa Munshya
In many opinions on Barotseland Agreement of 1964 (BA64), very few comparative studies have been done to see how other countries handled the issue of national unity and secession. Indeed the question of what happened in 1964 is not unique to Zambia alone. Several countries in Africa were faced with similar situations. While not every situation is the same, we could look at what happened in other countries and from their example extrapolate and predict the direction that the Barotseland question is likely to take.
In the 1960s at the time that much of Africa was proceeding to independence several countries had to unite and divide and indeed negotiate on how their future would be. Unity and secession politics happened in Somalia involving Somaliland, Ethiopia and its relationship with Eritrea, in Congo and its Katanga issue, in Tanganyika and its relationship with Zanzibar and indeed in Northern Rhodesia and its relationship with Barotseland. It is impossible in this article to deal with each of these situations.
Except that for the current purpose I will limit myself to the question of how Nyerere dealt with Zanzibar and how Kaunda dealt with Barotseland on the other hand. My argument is that Nyerere was more open and more frank with Zanzibar than Kaunda was with Barotseland. In essence the Tanzanian situation was more responsive to the future than what Kaunda did with regard to Barotseland. Here is why.
The fact that Kaunda negotiated with the Litunga and came up with a deal, means that Barotseland was in many cases different and unique from the rest of other regions in Zambia, otherwise there was not going to be the need for an agreement in the first place. This is more reason why it should be surprising for anyone in our time to discount the significance of the BA64.
It was agreed and negotiated because Barotseland was in itself a unique case. The same situation happened with Zanzibar. While maintaining many cultural ties with the rest of Tanganyika, Zanzibar was known to be a unique region unlike any other region in the rest of main land Tanganyika. This uniqueness was more historical than political. In fact, Zanzibar had enjoyed a few years as an independent nation. It did not even matter which tribes were in Zanzibar or what the population of Zanzibar was.
In the same way, it should not matter which tribes live in Barotseland or the characters of those tribes. The question and recognition we need to make is that Barotseland was a unique region.
Knowing that Barotseland was unique was very clear to Kaunda. With regard to Nyerere, he too knew very well that Zanzibar was a unique area. But when deciding what to do in proceeding to independence made a difference between Nyerere and Kaunda.
Nyerere showed great leadership that took the future into account. As for Kaunda the immediate political scores were more important to him. Nyerere went to Zanzibar and negotiated a unity deal that would ensure some amount of autonomy for Zanzibar in a united nation to be known as Tanzania—the name created from combining Tanganyika and Zanzibar. Kaunda also wanted to go on similar lines as Nyerere, albeit with lots of differences and changes.
First, Kaunda negotiated an agreement with the Litunga from a position of great strength. He for all purposes left very little options for the Litunga. Mwanawina just had to sign the agreement. Besides, the BA64 was done at a time that the Litunga was at his weakest politically. The political party he would have liked to win in Barotseland had been walloped by UNIP in elections and the British had refused him independence.
Additionally, Barotseland was functionally broke. Knowing this, Kaunda put the Litunga in a corner where he had to sign the deal. With hindsight, Kaunda should have been wiser. Politics do change and it changes very fast. Within two years of independence by 1966, UNIP had lost considerable support in Barotseland and the Westerners were having second thoughts about the BA64 already. Kaunda should have negotiated with the Litunga as equals. He should have not based his decisions on his political popularity at that time since politics change very quickly.
Second, Kaunda made a huge mistake with the BA64 by cleverly making the agreement while robbing it of its legal and constitutional effect. As such whereas we have the BA64, it was never legislated by a Zambian legislature and it was done without a referendum.
In Tanzania on the other hand, Nyerere negotiated a legislated agreement such that the unity of between Zanzibar and Tanganyika to form Tanzania was a constitutional act. Kaunda may have been clever in doing the BA64 without parliamentary approval, what is more concerning however, is that Kaunda sought both parliamentary and referendum approval to toss out Zambia’s obligation in the BA64.
I think Kaunda thought that the BA64 paper would just disappear on its own. He was sadly mistaken, because now every one of us has been able to read the agreement and see what it contained. Hiding it, or even claiming that it has been overtaken by events while making lots of sense would not put the emotions of the Barotse to rest. To avoid further unrest and confrontations, Zambia should talk with Barotseland again!
Third, history is not just on the side of Kaunda’s actions. No region world-over that has some legitimate claim to autonomy can maintain connections with the larger country without negotiation.
Secessionist Katanga is quiet now, because it enjoys some autonomy within a united Democratic Republic of Congo. This is why Katanga’s first Bemba-speaking governor could shut down his side of the border without recourse to Kinshasa. Katumbi has the power to negotiate for mineral interests within Katanga. This simple act of autonomy has for the time being kept secessionist talk in Katanga to the minimum.
The Caprivi Strip uprising was violently crushed in Namibia in late 1990s. The Strip does have some legitimate claim to autonomy and Namibia’s violent reaction in dealing with the Strip only guarantees that the question is not solved but buried only to be resurrected latter.
Canada has its own unique issues with Quebec. To keep Quebec within a united Canada, Canada has had to make concessions that other regions in Canada simply regard to be ridiculous. Quebec’s right to self-determination encompasses immigration, and even taxation. Prominence of Québécois politicians at the federal scene gives the region some amount of pride that has for now postponed the drive towards independence.
With regard to Ethiopia, only war led to Ethiopia granting independence to Eritrea. War ought not to be the case with Zambia. We have seen how Nyerere handled Zanzibar, negotiate and make deals. If Zanzibar is happy, so will Tanzania be.
For Zambia, Kaunda is no longer in power. It is therefore not about what Kaunda did and did not do. The challenge for President Rupiah Banda is to listen, negotiate and make a deal. This deal should not be changed at will by Zambia.
A united Zambia is possible only to the extent that those elements that created it in the first place remain peaceful. You cannot dribble the Barotse on one hand while on the other hand preach a message of peace and unity.
Nomba ni bashi Panji muchibe…
No 1 Umungulu
What are you talking about?
If you have nothing to say, keep quiete. You irritate me.
Kaunda was th worst president the country has had, You cant judge Rupiah Yet because his legacy is just unfolding
Kaunda destroyed the country, the tunnels? people quieing for food?
The country is not worthy of anyone as educated as i am to live in and live as happy a life as i am leading
Thanks
#2, Kanshi iwe ka Mushota ni isukulunshi wa ileko?? you sound so dumb and please don’t start what you cant finish..
we tubulu iwe..
and check your spellings before you post your juvenile postings..
fske…
Shaka Zulu is dead & Mfecane is over! The Kololo, please, pack your bags and go back home! Remember to leave the cattle you store behind! :-)
Elias,
Untill there is an explicity understanding among insurgents and their handlers that no clause in the BA64 talks of or condons secession even in advent of dissastifaction, the insurrection of those rascals turning arsonists is treasonable.
#2 Kaunda did his best but in the end he had no new ideas in my opinion Chiluba was the worst president that our country has ever had….there is evidence to that effect all those designer gear he had …..the carlington maize saga….zamtrop account….panama properties etc etc i have nothing againest the short guy but the evidence againest him is too much.
Mr Author you’ve got your facts wrong you are comparing totally right facts with wrong facts.I would appreciated your article more if you gave us the historical background to the reasons behind the protection the British granted the Lozis the British and not Kaunda had wrong in the first place.They were protecting there interests (mineral rights) in the Lamb land and Kaonde land for there empire.The comparison you make with Zanzibar /Tanzania does not hold any water ,the Litunga did not even know where the map of his kingdom extends to .You know that Nkoyas will never be part of the kingdom ,it is another recipe for war.Do more balanced research without protecting your tribal inclinations.
Thanks for this informative and educative article.
Quebec is like a country within a country
We love our country because of the peace that we have enjoyed since independence.KK help sort out the problem before we see more bloodshed
# 2 Mushota
Zambia is struggling because of hypocrites like you who were educated for free by KK at great expense and 2day you sit were you are thinking you are a muzungu. FYI 80% of buidings in Zambia were built by KK. Dont even come to this blogg if Zambia is not worthy of you. We need incouraging compatriots not sell out pipo with slave yes bwana mentality ready to ditch thier homeland once they taiste tea.
the topic, Zanzibar is different, for one they are not connected the mainland. Look closer to home for wannabe breakaway movements, like matableland in Zim, katanga in zaire or away in nigeria-biafra, No good can come of BRA. KK was a one Zambia one nation man. Lets keep it this way. some political elders advocating support for BRA because of blood thurst hunger for power not…
we have to do away with this BA24 we do not need it, its so backward.
No 10
Ofcourse i was educated by Kaunda, however Zambia was rich in resources, and if you put in Chiluba during that era I think zambians would not be suffering as much as they do
I take nothing away from Kaunda but i think Kaunda did not know what democracy is and by 1991 the country was brutally dstroyed by him
Same as Mugabe ofcourse by 1985 when Mugabe was still athe Helm the country was arguably the best african countries to live into, look what has happened now.That is exactly what would ‘ve happened to zambia. Kaunda did NOTHING, he was taking over a country that was in great health all around because of the whites beforehand, read yr history!
and Umungulu no 3 , i just dont like you, if you were near me i would spit at you. You look fat as well in that picture ur ugly
This whole saga is nothing but just a conspirency. After doing my research i discovered that the real problem is caused by our so called leaders and these are FTJ, RB and the King Cobra. people where are we focusing our attention to? This is election year and each player has to find a way to win numbers. While we focus our attention on the ignorant people fighting for something they don’t understand the players are counting their cards. Be reminded that in the begining someone used a crooked way to achieve his goal and i can bet that most bemba know what i’m talking about. most of you out there will not understand what i’m trying to say, but open your ears and eyes to see the real issues at hand. It’s just a shadow of the real thing. Sooner or later you will understand what i’m…
#!12 Mushota You know how much i defend you because at times i feel you are attacked for having a free mind ,however am not comfortable with your above threats of spitting on adults .I know and appreciate the the new life style you have adopted there in Europe but remember your culture speaks volumes about respecting those older than you,therefore my dear try to tone down a bit so that we can all have fun on this site,i beg you please Mushota.
Mushota when you start calling people fat and ugly then you know you have lost the argument. sure kk was not perfect but as proven he never stole a single penny, education was free, medical was free, roads were paved, kids who lived far were bused to secondary schools the list goes on. so he did his part to the best of his ability whereas your guy did his best to fatten his pockets
Just from the map, even a Martian can see that Zanzibar has a definite border, a very simple case. According to the BA64, the borders should spill into: Central, Copperbelt, N/Western, Southern Provinces, Angola, Botswana, Namibia and Zimbabwe! Quite complicated, and I would take the same stance like the other presidents – Just ignore it! Though, I don’t know at whose peril :-)
12.
You have been away so long from Zambia you don’t even know an image of the education minister Dora.
Just like the ugly image you use of some black chick with a hat on.
Talk about fake breasts.
If the Litunga wants autonomy then every Chiefdom in Zambia should be granted autonomy. This implies that Zambia will have to Balkanise. I consider it foolishness for our Lozi brothers in western province to advocate for secession because of the BA64 which stems from the Lochner concession. Lochner drew the boundaries of the so called Barotseland. In other words it is the whiteman who gave the imginary boundaries to the Litunga. If we were to search history we will find that the Litunga’s area of influence did not encompass the whole of western province it could have been far less. Therefore these felas in western province are saying give us what the white man gave us. This is absurd. Should other Chiefdoms advocate for autonomy as well to revert the situation as it were before…
14
I am 27 I bite back when someone, is trying to get on top of me. I wont let anyone bully me, i will take them to the cleaners :)
Anyway sorry if i offended you.
I Chiluba is underrated what he achieved. I like Mwanawasa because i immigrated to this country under him. But the man did not know what he was doing, he governed by instics( MHSRIP)
Could someone educate me, Is there anything in the constitution that would stop Chiluba forming a party and challenging in 2011 or 5 years there after?.
Also how is Kaunda and Chiluba Dr’s when they when they havent achieved a PHD let alone a masters,?
15, gono I have lost no argument, what argument? I stated facts and she attacked me from behind like an *diot. You are exposing your arrogance as well. silly
Thanks
Thanks Mushota for your apology above ,thats a sign of maturity mwaiche.Good night am going to sleep now.Just remember the golden rules but don’t be intimidated by any one okay.
lol ok mushota lets move on. just rem you can get an honorary phd is what they have. you dont have to fulfill the academic requirements just made great contribution towards education
It is very interesting to note that almost all the comments above are based on character assassinations. From the commentary on the BA1964 to attacking one another. Education can help us discuss issues than finger-pointing. It could come out that most of us attacking each other here are doctors and educated minds. The confused situation of this is also reflected in the way people are commenting and complaining about each other’s comments. Without attacking anybody, what are saying about this;’ Did Kaunda get it wrong on Ba of 1964?’ After answering that one, then we can insult each other if that is our daily food.
Ba kabwa aneba.
from#18…the coming of the whiteman? I therefore, am in agreement with the minster of Home Affaires that they will be no dialogue as regards the BA64 because it has the potential to divide the nation. Am sure the minister meant it has the potential to Balkanise the nation. Balkanise has a more stronger conotation in this instance compared to divide which would have meant separating western province from Zambia. But Balkanise would imply re-establishing the autonomous chiefdoms that existed before.
I have my own suspitions to believe that this talk of secession could be the work of multinationals due to the discovery of oil. Having a dictatorship in that part of Zambia would allow them to extract oil with little regard to the citizenry.
#14 mulepapata, is mushota your child. Anyway thanx for your advice for use of good language.
Mushota I wish you could progressive in your postings. iyo kwena ulikanakashi. the author is right: stakeholders should go back to the drawing board. Dictatorial threats of treason only go so far. let them look at BRE64 again.
“… Barotseland was functionally broke. Knowing this, Kaunda put the Litunga in a corner where he had to sign the deal. With hindsight, Kaunda should have been wiser. Politics do change and it changes very fast. Within two years of independence by 1966, UNIP had lost considerable support in Barotseland and the Westerners were having second thoughts about the BA64 already. Kaunda should have negotiated with the Litunga as equals. He should have not based his decisions on his political popularity at that time since politics change very quickly”.
Lets use our common sense guys. How can we expect someone in a strong position to negotiate with someone who is in a weak position so that they become equal? Even in your day to day life ba author, do you ever do that.
Ba Mushota pliz, spare us your silly thoughts and arguments. I think you’re a shame to the human race. You have really lost your African values, how do you say you’ll spit on someone. If your Scottish hubby heard that these are the sort of contributions you post on the internet, I think he can bring you back to Kanyama ophanage where he adopted you from. Now shut up fool.
I dont wish to pull the leg of KK but RB is the man to handle this one; now the fellow has been travelling around when sensitive national issue is blown off. how can you explain this? How come he is underating the undertone of all these? what happens if the barotseland says no voting – just how scandalous that maybe? how come pipo refuse to sing the national anthem if there is nothing serious here????
What has happened is that the big mining companies have come back to Zambia with highly and advanced and improved technology. They have discovered that the mineral reserves that are in the entire western province are far much more than the rest of Zambia combined. Somehow this information has been leaked to a few selfish Lozis, who are now trying to in the forefront of trying to push for a breakaway. They are doing this for their own interest and nothing else. They’ ve been told by someone to do this and promised a little something in return if it succeeds.
Zambia wake up!
@27 ba artifacts.
I think you have not the common sense you refer to; by the way this BA64 is not for commoners like kamushota lady. where on earth do pipo strick a deal with equals. you can only do that with those you think are potential threats now since they are in weak position you shut them up by stricking a deal while returning full control (look at political deals in zim; kenya now why do you think gbagbo is asking for the same deal?????)
Police beat the hell out of those causing problems in that province, this is alot of nonsence.
First of all I think Mushota is not female but a sarcastic male blogger who enjoys winding up everybody and loves the hostile responses he gets. He may be a psychology student specialising in human behaviour/reactions. One good thing is that he avoids using insults and maintains his cool. Personally I have no problem with Mushota, he makes this site lively in his unique style.
Lets pray for Zambia.
This article has raised pertinent issues, the comparison between Zambia and Tanzania makes sense. Northern Rodesia was a construction of colonization, before colonization Zambia was made up of independent territories in different forms each with it unique ways of doing things. The Bemba in their own territory completely different from the Chewa. These people other than all being bantu lived under different governance system. The british colonised these groups and formed Northern Rodesia, all nations were brought under country Northern Rodesia, In Zimbabwe the same applied, the Shona and the Ndebele were brought together under the country Rodesia, Namibia the same applied the Germans brought together different nations in namibia under one country.
Until there is a deliberate effort on the part of the government to listen to what the Westerners are saying, this issue is not going to die a natural death. It has been nearly 50 years since independence, and the issue has not gone away. Clearly, it is not going away anytime soon.
Telling people to keep quiet as the government is doing is no solution. Labeling everyone who wishes to debate the issue a secessionist and treasonous person simply won’t do. Calling for the restoration of the Barotseland Agreement is not the same as calling for secession. Until an effort to bring out the pertinent issues in public is made, more blood will be spilled.
its true..our zed leaders aren’t honest..
can someone please explain this BA64 from A to Z I’m completely lost.I don’t even remember if we covered it in social studies or history.Perhaps instead of Bismarck I should have been taught more on these issues then today I would know how to advise RB .
#33 distant drums. I agree with you. The guy may not even be where he claims to be currently.anyway i equally just like the way he pulls attention to himself while keeping a distant eye on the topic.
When you forget God and become a god on your own,you lose direction.Kaunda,in his initial reign,was a very good leader Zambia did ever have.The problem came in when he started comparing himself with the sovereign God.Man is mortal being who should not equate himself to immortal God.Chiluba was arrogant and haughty.His ears were clogged with wax.He could not listen to anyone.His leadership style, has been inherited by RB.RB has forgoten that he became a president through circumstance beyond our control.He pretends to be a listening president but he is an introvert who is feeled up with pride and arrogance.Levy was a president of pragmatism.He wasted no time to deal with crooks in his regime.He was a reader who did not lose touch with the masses.He was one of the best leaders in Africa.
1. Who ruled the present Zambia before October 24 1964?
2. What was the political map of this colony before 1964?
3. A Protectorate is an independent country that comes under the protection of another. When did the Barotseland become a Protectorate under who were the signatories to that Treaty?
4. When did the Protectorate status come to an end, and who were the signatories to that Treaty?
5. Why were the Litunga’s subjects fighting side by side with non-Lozis for independence if Barotseland was not a colony?
6. What was the purpose of the BA64?
7. Why did the Litunga travel to Britain to oppose the creation of an independent Zambia if his Kingdom was not part of the British colony?
If Levy was around (MHSRIEP), wud these problems have surfaced at this time.? ??? as a party in power, lets do something to make them feel part of us , we cant risk losing the western vote.
People always like saying good things about a person when he or she is no more. Anyway, lets thank God for our leaders for preventing a bloodbath in western province that if not was going to spread to other parts of the country. Am sure this is what Fatherless Bwalya had been dreaming about. considering that his platform and suit were all a nauseating red when he went about his red card campaign
Mushota I think ulichipuba.If u have nothing sensible to talk about y not just keep your thoughts to yourself rather than showing your foolishness on LT
8. What part did the death of the Litunga in 1968 play in the Zambia’s real politik vis-a-vis the BA64?
9. Why was there a succession wrangle in Loziland before a pro-UNIP Godwin Mbikusita took over?
10. What role did Kaunda’s government play in the coronation of Godwin?
#38 Jani
You can google the Barotse Agreement and be fully informed.
11. Was Mwanawina offered a Knight hood by the British government in order to silence him over the independence of Zambia?
Mushota, I agree with you that Zambia went to the dogs during the last years of KK as President. However here’s one thing you should know. He tried to nationalize companies so that we the Zambians could enjoy the profits coming from our natural resourses. The international businesses were not happy with that. They pulled out all their businesses to punish him. This drove him to get loans. My friend we all know that if you get a loan on top of one, you will find yourself paying for a long time. By this they found a way of controlling him and the nation. Ever heard of the ‘new world order’? Rich countries dominating poor ones. Look at whats happening now. We have foreign companys running everything. where do you think the profits are going? I could go on about a lot of things but …
12. Other Chiefs in Zambia who signed concessions with foreign parties like Gawa Undi of the CHewa in Katete, earned no less than £200 per year, and that is £16,000 in today’s money and 1% of profits from exploration and exploitation of resources in their kingdoms! How much did the Litunga earn from the Lochner Concession over a period of 60 years?
If the questions I have put forward are thoughtfully and carefully considered, one would realise that the BA64 is not just KK’s problem, but the British as well as the Royal house of Lealui have played a role in the conundrum. The way forward though, is not to point fingers but to sit down and with cool heads to look at it again and plot the best course. The only cool heads so far are the Litunga and RB. They will lead, and thank God for that. I doubt whether Mr Sata has such credentials!
The BA64 is going nowhere. This is yet another biased and under researched article making very little sense to someone who might try and understand the root problems of Western Zambia
The Luyi (a word which means foreigners in the Nkoya language) came from south of the Lyambai river (now known as Zambezi river). It is believed the came from present day South Africa.
It is understood that they had been running away from the Zulu empire or the early Mfecane wars of present day South Africa. The Luyi took different routes, others passed through present day Namibia, while others also passed through present day Botswana and others even passed through present day Zimbabwe.
In all the routes the used, they had running battles with tribes in those areas so the Luyi proceeded further north until they reached present day Zambezi river. It was the Zambezi that would come to literary give new life to the Luyi (or Lozi as they prefer to be known today).
When the crossed the Zambezi, one of the first groups the encountered where the Tonga / Ila groups. While in Tonga / Ila lands, because of trekking, they had no agricultural land to grow food as they had been constantly travelling and fighting the hosting tribes that gave them temporal settler, the Luyi resorted to cattle raiding to feed themselves. It wasn’t long before the Tonga /Ilas got feed up of them and chased them away.
Is it true chiefs in history have always been a source of trouble?
With nowhere to go and no clear source of food, the decided to follow the Zambezi river heading towards South Western Zambia and used the river as a source of food such as fish. As we all know today, Lozi life in Western Zambia is all about fishing because it goes back to their roots in that area.
By the time some Luyi where reaching Sesheke and Mongu areas, they had been reduced in number because of tribal wars during the great treks and others had scattered round the Zambezi River on either side.
By the time the Luyi encountered the Nkoyas, the were in no position to fight so instead of fighting their way into Western Zambia, the decided to reason with the Nkoyas of old by asking for permission to settle in the area and also asked for permission to fish in the Zambezi. The Nkoyas realising the weakness of the foreigners, decided to grant them permission to settle in Nkoya fishing areas on compassionate grounds.
The Nkoyas had been fishing the Zambezi for 100s of years and they had known beforehand that Zambezi River is prone to flooding annually during the rainy season so most Nkoyas had settled in the higher lands to avoid the annual flooding.
we dont need any dialogue ow,we have been patient for a long time now,all we need is independent from zambia,that doesnt mean we shall have our own president,it mean we shall be able to run our kingdom our own,we shall continue fighting till they give us what belongs to us,we are not scared of dying,we are doing this for our great children,come people of western province,dont give up for this fight continue fighting even if it means getting shot at…..
The only Nkoyas that could be found in those areas where those from the fishing clans who would go there to fish and then relocate to higher land after they had enough fish.
However, the Luyi had interpreted the almost nonexistent of settled villages closet to the Zambezi as an opportunity to settle and so they did not knowing that the area was prone to flooding but because they had no choice and no fore knowledge of the area, the decided to stay.
In short, that is how the Luyi (or Lozi) settled in that area. It was through negotiations not conquests as they try to project themselves these days.
Coming to the issue of agreements, just like the Lozi came through the Zambezi river, so did the agreements. Cecil Rhodes duped the Lozi chief into signing some doggy document, of course the Lozi chief could not have understood what was contained in the document because clearly he could not read English let alone understand a contract and its implications. Cecil and his company got what they wanted, mineral rights to areas that the lozi chief had no control over.
The main reason the lozi chief signed deals was not because he was some business savvy chief, it was because he heard that the Ndebele were on the verge of attacking his people just like the Kololo had done and he also heard that the white man had ‘powers’ (guns) to fight off large armies so he sought for their protection knowing very well that if the Ndebele attacked, it will be the end of his chiefdom. So where is the talk on autonomy or even a Kingdom as some have been suggesting?
My opinion regarding the BA64 itself, the BRE were basically trying to legitimise a perception they had created through the colonial British government that they were some Kingdom when in fact not, at least not as far as they had projected themselves. The Lozis were mainly settled not far from the shores of the Zambezi, which was the real boundary of the Lozi chief’s influence NOT the entire Western Province as some are claiming today. It is with this background that the government CANNOT honour any agreements based in lies and inflated bogus claims.
As one point, the British Commissioner for Ma Nkoya District (now known as Kaoma) did his own investigations to establish how far the BRE’s influence went and he realised that the BRE had exaggerated their claims and so he decided he was going to create a separate province to reflect a clear distinction between Lozi areas and Nkoya areas.
However, when the BRE got wind of the plan the cooked up a plan to sabotage the idea of establishing a separate province because they had ambitions to expand their claim into Nkoya areas.
No 33
I am glad you have now put your manhood on me.
You just be mingling with dull people around you, If you intend on befiriending me on msn, facebook and see me you are welcome. I take that as a compliment thank you
No 48 I could not agree with you more. The country is suffering because of Kaunda. if Kaunda knew when to let go as a president, Your country has lost great leaders who would have brought this country forward as a country.
Its now inevitable that if zambia does not stagnant it would get worse. the Kwacha will either stabilise or get worse in the long term
Anyone sensible when they have some education they leave zambia, they want their children to educate abroad. As a matter of fact all of you are either duo citizens or part time zambians.
I love being british ty
A few nights before the ceremony was to take place to formally establish the province, the BRE sent some people who insisted on meeting the main signatory representing all Nkoyas, who was in this case, High Royal Highness Chief Mwene Mutondo of that time (1940s).
The Nkoya King not suspecting anything sinister from representatives of the BRE, held a last minute meeting with the people in question. As per tradition, they had a meal together to signify good relations between the two royal establishments.
@mushota…mushota..what a piece of crap ur,just stay in scotland and continue getting bumed by an agry fat old scotish filthy man,do not contribute anything if u have nothing to say,all u say is how glad ur in the united kingdom.foolish bitch
too bad
The next day, on the day of the ceremony, the Nkoya chief suddenly died, he never got up from his sleep. After investigations, it was established that he had been poisoned by the BRE’s representatives.
The ceremony to establish the Province was postponed as a result of the death of the signatory to the ‘Kafue Province’ agreement. After that the BRE went out of their way to make sure the ceremony to establish the new province never took place. The commissioner who was in support of the new province was suddenly transferred and the whole issue faced one obstacle after another all cooked up by the BRE.
And today, some Lozis think the Nkoyas can ever support anything the BRE comes up with such as the illegal and biased BA64, not in this lifetime.
The BRE have blood on their hands!!
#Our Phd students have revealed in their research that GRZ should continue to dialogue with the Litunga. KK and the house of chiefs should be involved too. Apart form considering the need to have a federal system of governance, GRZ also consider developing a system where the Republican & Vice presidency rotates among all the nine provinces. Sata and the Post should be told in no uncertain terms that they should not give false hopes that the BRE will be restored. Other chiefs in Lambaland & Kaondeland were not part of the agreement. Therefore, the agreement was illegal. The British should be told so. A true agreement should involve chiefs from all the areas in question.
# 55 Kafue Province Campaign: You are a deluded lunatic, the Nkoyas reside in Kaoma district and I cannot see where in that district the Zambezi river where the so called Nkoyas lived and granted Lozis fishing rights.
This is a poorly written article – comparing potatoes to spades. That said, if you’re in a position of strength while negotiating, why would you want to negotiate on an equal basis with your opponent? Does that make sense Mr. Munshya?
You talk of Barotseland being unique without elaborating what’s supposed to make it so. How was it unique? And don’t talk about the Lochner Concession that defined Barotselands protectorate status. That document was a fraud which even the Litunga who signed poorly understood.
When you talk of Barotseland, don’t forget the interests of independent tribes like the Nkoya and Mbunda who have refused to have anything to do with BA64. You cannot ignore these people.
The BA64 is a dead issue.
When you talk of Barotseland
Very good article indeed. It’s refreshing to see that there are some Zambians who use their heads to reason and not bigoted unintelligent local party mentality to espouse the line of their useless Marcopololing president and his AIDS infested red-lipped side-kick serpent. Any president who can co-opt dull scam like Dora into his cabinet is not worthy of the office. Africa is littered with problems like the one presented by Barotseland and Munshya has gone a long way in drawing practical applicable comparables and its a shame the extent to which some lumpens would go to discount the parallels and stick to a hardline stance which has done nothing but fuel civil war as seen in the case of Ethiopia etc. The ball is in your hands, we’ll see you when your chickens come back home to roost.
#62 Mushota,
Thank you for the compliment, you are welcome to visit me in London any time convenient to you and we shall have a Zambian dish of nshima, chibwabwa, fish (tilapia) etc.. and you will have a huge nostalgia for Zambia.
#67 Kafue province, thank you for the detailed history. So the Luyis dribbled the Nkoya before being dribbled by Kaunda themselves.
Can I just urge peolpe to desist from discussing their personal stuff on the blog, it does not help anyone at all, thank you.
mushota
u are just a white arss.e licker with the worst kind of inferior complex. Your yarning to be anything associated with UK is embarassing. Which compound were you rescued from ?. even your grasp of facts is embarassing for a wannabe like you.
Gents dont bother reading this fontini wannbes contributions.
when other are thinking make AFRICA one country and europe is becaming one thats when some dull africans think of divdind or is it secisseding.AFRICANS DONT U KNOW THAT UNITED U STAND DIVEDED U FALL WHEN WILL U EVER LEARN.THIS Y WE SAY U ARE DULL
Cecil Rhodes is the cause of all these.
Dear me! is this Mushota girl ok upstairs or shes just a drunk? She’s asking where FTJ and KK got their PHDs, what a silly question to be asked by a self proclaimed educated person. Too many kids, drunks and drug abusers on this site nowadays, it sucks.
No 72
Thanks, but sorry i will stick to pizza or fish and chips.
Thanks
#33, I agree with most of your observations. Mushota spends alot of time on this site, tries to personalise or deviate every story to (1) her being in scotland or to (2) her boyfriend whose race appears to be a central theme. As a psychologist (I am a Psychologist, Mushota is unlikely to be one) i can reasonably profile her as follows; A Zambian youth, who is dissatisfied with life abroad, he/she makes up by constantly visiting Zambian sites, his/her main limitation to settling in her new country is failure to find a suitable partner of the targeted race.
Exposed~~~~~People this “Elias Munshya wa Munshya” is Mr Capitalist~~~~~~~.
Imwe balozi bapaseni vamene bafuna I see they are peopole who don’t have heart for the United Zambia. Their language shows that we are not thinking on the same level. However, good and reasonable Lozi should come on board for discussion and not those “Blackbull” terrorists. You cannot negotiate with extremists. You know the tragid of Appeasement Policy of the Second World War. Neville Chamberlain miscalculated because Hitler took advantage of his situation. Let us separate the BRE64 and the work of those terrorists who want to eliminate non-Lozi’s from Western province. That is genocidal talk which should not be tolerated by any peace loving Zambians.
This is what Wikipedia says about the protectorate of Barotseland:
The political organisation of the Lozi has long centered around a monarchy, whose reigning head, the Paramount Chief, is known as ‘Litunga’ which means ‘keeper of the earth.’ The renowned Litunga Lewanika, who reigned from 1878 to 1916 with a short insurrectionist break in 1884-85, requested Queen Victoria to bring Barotseland under protectorate status. Great Britain, however, was uninterested in acquiring the territory. A granting of a royal charter for the British South Africa Company of Cecil Rhodes allowed the company to acquire Barotseland under the guise of the British government.
#69 Nkoyas are everywhere in Western Province, do you know that Mungulula is the full name of Mongu district? That is a Nkoya word which means pumpkins which were commonly found in the area that is why the Nkoyas named it the area of pumpkins.
Limulunga and Kalabo are all Nkoya names. If fact even today, there are more Nkoyas in Kalabo than Lozis. You will find old native Nkoya villages in Shangombo. If all these places have Lozi names, can you please let us what the mean and why they were named as such?
Why do you play Nkoya music at your Kuomboka ceremony and why do you use the Nkoya Royal Drums instead of your own? Is it not because, your chief had no Royal music or Royal Instruments when the arrived in the area and so they decided to steal from the Nkoyas?
Cont form #82
Although under protectorate status, Lewanika eventually realized that he had been tricked and petitioned for the protectorate status to be corrected. Yet, the land remained under Rhode’s control, and when the territory failed to produce gold, copper, and other exports, the “British South Africa Company defaulted on every commitment it had made to Lewanika,” and few developments in infrastructure and education were made.
From #84
Although Barotseland was incorporated into Northern Rhodesia, it retained a large degree of autonomy, which was carried over when Northern Rhodesia became Zambia on its independence in 1964. In the run-up to independence, the Litunga, the Ngambela (Prime Minister) and about a dozen senior indunas went to London for talks with the Colonial Office, in an attempt to have Barotseland remain a Protectorate[2]. The Litunga, Sir Mwanawina Lewenika III, quoted his grandfather’s words to Queen Victoria, that “My country is your blanket, and my people are but the fleas in your blanket.”
Everything about the Lozis is fake.
From #85
Although before colonial times, the region was self-sufficient in food and exported crops to neighbouring regions, today it is the least-developed region of Zambia, with only one major road into the province, from Lusaka to Mongu, and only intermittent supplies of electricity. There remains some support in the region for greater autonomy within Zambia or for full independence.
Mushota you amaze me so much with your immature arguments. If you are 27 yrs old now you cant claim that you went to school dring the kaunda days. kaunda lost power in 1991, 20 yrs have since past. to put state my point diffrerently, mushota you were only 7 yrs old and probably still wetting your pants when kaunda lost to mmd. going by how shallow your postings sound i can deduce that you were not even in kindagarten ( nursery) by that time. you cant hosnestly draw a comparison between education in the kaunda days and education in the chiluba/mwanawasa/bwezani era since your knowledge of the latter is base on hear-say.
go to hell with your colonial documents, the nkoya, mbunda, luvale, kaonde, lamba and others are against this agreement, its time grz did took it to the toilet.
its good that the nkoya are against this foolish agreement, now what you are have to do is to come out in the open and speak ,not hidding ….as for you lozis you are fighting a losing battle the ba64 is no a shinda paper ku toilet.
If Lozi’s want to break away from Zambia thats no big deal.We can give it to them but let them not talk about,N Western.Copperbelt and Part of Southern.Do they even know what they are advocating for?What wil happen to Lozi’s living in other parts of Zambia?Are these Lozi’s going to go back to Barosteland?S.I.L.L.Y people indeed
#80 why do you say so??
No 72
You are an idot
I see I am your source of inspiration. 1*****
No 28 I was 8, in 1991 and certainly not wetting pants
I take your comments with a pinch of salt
No 72 where do you live then?
Thanks
Its true, let them go while remebering they have a duty to share Zambias dept
From what i hear lozis are very intolerant to other tribes just like the tsanas in Botswana
My point, no 31, is that the one in a weaker position always gets a raw deal. If you have an ailing corner shop, you cant expect a thriving supermarket to enter into an agreement with you on equal terms.
By the way ba 31, please check your spellings.
Mushota makes interesting readings.I know now that you are not female but thats besides the point.Do you know that USA has tunnels and bunkers that are for the security of the president.If you research enough, you’ll find a couple of outlets in Pennslyvania Avenue as escape routes in case of an attack or danger to the head of state.It was a height of folly for Chiluba to even reveal those tunnels.Even in SouthAfrica’s presidential residence they have those tunnels.Those tunnels that Kaunda made do not make him a bad president.I being a researcher and academician will intelligently argue that Kaunda’s woes,i.e food shortages did not come about due to stupid tunnels but his support for the liberation of Zimbabwe, Angola, Namibia, Mozambique, and later on SouthAfrica.The western world saw…
Kafue Province Campaign – please dont distort history. The Lozi or Luyi came from Congo not from South Africa. It is the Kololo that came from the South and Lozi language is mostly Kololo.
..as a marxist and hence purnished him the same way they have done to Mugabe.The west have many ways to purnish anyone who does not toll their line.They have the instruments of IMF, WORLD BANK, PARIS CLUB,and many many ways to get you.Coming back to Kaunda, he did his best and to call him a worst President is the worst description or unfair later on ungrateful to what he achieved.Kaunda had an elaborate programme to develop Zambia until he became more “political”.he swayed away from economic developement to start consolidating his political power as many African leaders do, which of course is his down fall.This spot is not enough for us to decipher all the short comings of Kaunda.In my humble opinion Dr. Chiluba was not better than Kaunda comparatively.The Barotse agreement needs…
Kafue Province. Hats off to you. You know our history
Can somebody tell me how the Barotses intend to survive as an independent nation.
Good evening
I would have appreciated it if the article had focussed more on practicable solutions to the problem than comparisons. The main issue is what happens next and not what happened before. Trouble is already on the road and our national unity is en-prise, so it isn’t really going to help to study the past, is it?
As a nation, I also feel that we’ve advanced beyond the secessional tribalism of colonial times. None of the 73 tribes of Zambia have ever demanded to be delinked from the rest of the country, so there appears to be only a single tribe of rabble rousers. Do I need to even mention which one that is??
“The measure of a civilization is the extent to which COOPERATIVE INTELLIGENCE triumps over brute force” – James De
The Deposit One afternoon a young bank teller met her aunt downtown for lunch.
During the meal, the older woman asked her niece to deposit her paycheck at the bank where the girl worked. She told her aunt she would be happy to, however on her way back to work, the girl’s purse was snatched. “Help, help,” she screamed at a passing cop. “That man has taken my aunt’s pay-he’s taken my aunt’s pay!” “OK, lady,” said the cop. “Cut out the pig latin and tell me exactly what
happened.”.
#100
they chaps believe that there are diamonds in western province!
The author of this article to be behind this issue,he did half research tho with passion.last warning,next time u do this u put ur head on a chopping board or dig ur own grave.Unity way to go bafikra,mufwaya nkaladndile kumat.ko?Cheers!
:x Fellow country men and women, it is very possible for any other person to fight or start a war for what he/she thinks is his/hers. But honestly, as Zambia, for the past 4 decades plus of peace enjoyed in a landlocked country of Central Africa to be desturbed by thirst for power politicians. Sherm…. Can anyone tell me why the loyal rulers of the so called Balozi land are so quite of the subject?
Shut up iwe Chi Munshya! ABALOSHI agreement is non-existence! Don’t’ be deceived!
Elias Munshya wa Munshya: someone tell this man there are no comparisons at all. He even contradicts himself by suggesting that Zanzibar was once an independent state. And please leave the old man KK out of this nonsense. The BRA was not an issue until some well known opposition leaders realised that they were losing the 2011 elections because of RB’s excellent performance in his two years in office. Eg. for the first time in the history of Western province, the long awaited Mongu-Kalabo road has become a reality under RB. So create anarchy in MMD strongholds, Western province was a good candidate for the experiment. Why? Because in their wisdom and typical tribal inclinations, the lives of Lozi boys were not as important as their own tribes. That is how sweet power is to some people.
Unfortunately, they miscalculated because of failure to listen and learn. They have been told countless times that Zambians cherish peace, and that is why this insurgency is going nowhere. It is regretable that lives of a few innocent Lozi boys have been lost, but hats off to ZP for the good work. Why don’t you lock up those who were fanning trouble directly and indirectly? They are well known aren’t they?
# 108 You dont even know what u are talking about???? ati Mongu-Kalabo road has become a reality under RB??? Are u sure?? have u ever been to Kalabo??? We use boats during the rainy season so dont insult us. Nways this Article hast lost track by comparing wrong things!!!! Kaunda did nothing wrong at that time.
issues from the round table, they are still ruling Africans indirectly, Cecil was an evil man. thats the bilderberg at its work.
Micheal Sata admitted that he was part of a team that was set up to attend to the issue of Barotseland (Lozi). After applying their minds to this issue they gave a response as follows : “overtaken by events and stale”. This issue still lingers because they (Lozi) did not did not get what they wanted (cessation). If you sit to discuss the only acceptable solution will be cessation. The Author’s reference to the Barotseland as being “unique” is the main reason why we have come to this situation. My suggestion is that the current Govt. should now ask all the Paramount chiefs from all the provinces ( loziland, Nkoyaland, Bembaland, Kaondeland, Mambwe-Lungu land, Tongaland, Soli- Lenje land etc. and sit together in the Soli land (Lusaka) and negotiate their provinces not just one tribe.
Guys if truly this so called Mushota is in scotland the she went there through human trafficking and the one how was able to use her got interested in her because he was a widower, but to my thinking this some mushota is a Lusaka Times employee that what i think so please people dont waste your time commenting about this (human traffican mushota) if in scotland or (Lusaka Times employee) because as Marketer you have to find ways of entertaining people, this is Mushota
#101 – spot on
Nkoya compaigner tribe come back home and ask your elders abt what you dont knw. All waht you have claimed show that the Kuomboka ceremony is for all the people living in the province. Ask yourself, who are the Lozis? Is their anybody who is Lozi by tribe? Mind you even the Litunga has his language. You are part of us. You are proper joker, bloggers dont take this Nkoya serious he is a liar he doesnt knw his history.
# 114 Spare us your Lozi mentality of thinking you can blind other even if it’s you who is blind. If you are ignorant of your history of you just want to twist it to suit yourself, bare in mind that some of us are enlightened here. #Nkoya guy heads off, tell these Luyi guys who want us to believe their lies. Munshya wa Munshya, never you write articles to please those you worship, because no matter what you do or twist the truth it will never change, only you liers can change your minds. Never compare Zanzibar to that dubious Barotseland which was made by claiming people’s land, which is illegal under international law. You cannot claim to have conquered chiefdoms when it was just small villages to steal chickens for your survival. Can you re-draw your boundaries well.
Kafue Province Campaigner ,thank very much for the historical expoxition,can we put to print these truth ,am willing to contiribute to the costs of printing this very important aspect the Nkoya- luyi history.we can set up base somewhere in the copperbelt where these thugs wont reach easily.KK should allowed this history in schools.My father used to call us luyis when he was upset with us because he understood how selfish they were.
#13, you are right. This is election year and some politicians are agitating these problems so that they gain mileage and hopefully win the forth coming elections. We know their plans and soon they’ll be behind bars too.
Zanzibar had defined boundaries, and their basis of autonomy was more to do with Religion and not on selfish motives like yours(lozis). Majority in Zanzibar are muslims and Tanganyika has majority Christians. In Zanzibar there is no chief or King who want to eat on top of his subjects’ heads. KK was right to treat every chief the same and thats what is prevailing in Zambia, not others to be treated special. The Litunga has no influence in places like Kazungula and Livingstone which you climed in your submission to the NCC, This is not about the city but villages surrounding it with it’s people whose home town you are claiming. Chief Mukuni has worked hard to develop those areas for the betterment of everyone not Lozis. Stick to Mongu and senanga where you have influence.
Selfish Luyis, we know your plans of colonising others wherever you settle. The Namibian GRZ soughted you out in Kaprive when you wanted to uprise with the help of your leader Mutangelwa, now the same has come to Zambia, it will not work as zambia is so diverse in term ethnicity. I wish the police Kunupa (killed) you like chickens. You are the most greedy and selfish tribe in zambia who cannot appreciate the good of others.
This BRE is getting hot
This BRE is getting hot
This is getting hot
This is getting hot
GOOD DAY ZAMBIA.
YET ANOTHER TALKING POINT IN ZAMBIA.
1) ALLOW THE BA64 DRAW THEIR MAP
2) IF THEY INCLUDE SOUTHERN PROVINCE, NORTH/ WESTERN,CENTRAL AND COPPERBELT PROVINCES, THEN CALL FOR A REFERENDUM AND SEE IF OTHER TRIBES WILL AGREE TO BE PART OF BALOZI LAND.
3) IF ONLY THE LOZI VOTE FOR SECEDING ,PLEASE ALLOW THEM WITHOUT THEM PULLING OTHER TRIBES THEY CALLED THEIR SUBJECTS.
4)THIS WILL GIVE OUR BROTHERS ABOUT BA64.
5)FOR NOW LET US TALK, AND TALK BUT WITH RESPECT.
Author, there is some sense in this article.
Let all Zambians reflect and think seriously about the Barotseland issue. Its no longer a laughing matter. Surely, we can not smile when life is being lost. One wonders, will government keep on arresting and killing citizens until they arrest everyone including babies? Sure they can arrest the souls but not the spirit? No army has ever won a battle against hearts committed to pursue a just course? I wish Zambians will soon begin to reason and seek justice to prevail in this matter.Zambia’s christians do you support killing unarmed youths and babies? May Jesus look at Barotseland with mercy in times of need. He alone weep with and console the families. Sorry Zambians this is not the way to go.
I think Kaunda thought that the BA64 paper would just disappear on its own. He was sadly mistaken, because now every one of us has been able to read the agreement and see what it contained– KK BEHAVED LIKE SOME MAN WHO IS SHY TO ASK FOR SEX SO INSTEAD HE PROMISES MARRIAGE THEN AFTER SLEEPING WITH THIS WOMAN HE DITCHES HER.
in tanzania they 1 lunguage swahili
Lozis do not want to be our friends, brothers ,wives ,husbands,leaders,servants whatsoever.No amount of agreement will make us one.they have basically failed to integrate in the new nation called Zambia.Northern Rodesia should leave Zambia(barostland).Northern Rhodesia is not Zambia for there is no Zambize in the Northern Rhodesia
Mushota you don’t sound anymore educated than my great grandmother. Your gramma and spelling are pathetic. Get a life.
“… Barotseland was functionally broke. Knowing this, Kaunda put the Litunga in a corner where he had to sign the deal”. MR. AUTHOR, PLEASE DO YOUR RESEARCH PROPERLY BEFORE PUBLISHING YOUR IMAGINARY FABRICATIONS! £78MILLION STERLING (EQUIVALENT TO $2BILLION TODAY) WAS TAKEN FROM BAROTSELAND TO ZAMBIA BY KAUNDA & PART OF WHICH WAS USED TO CONSTRUCT THE CURRENT BANK OF ZAMBIA BUILDING IN CAIRO ROAD. KK WAS BORN & RAISED AMONG A THIEVING TRIBE THATS WHY HIS BEHAVIOUR WAS THAT OF A CROOK. ITS HARD TO TELL THE DIFFERENCE BTWN KK, FTJ & SATA.
Its not about spellings or how educated you are, we ned to ask the writer of this article; If the BRA is granted some concessions of some kind, to whos benefit? We need to wakeup as Zambians because we think if Ba rost land is independent the the Lozis who are for this will be give free mansions , free food etc. Let me tell you, ” still you will be required to work hard for your money and only the loyal family may have that benefit”.
One Zambia, One nation is the way to go
Iwe Mushota, if you are benefiting from plundered resources just don’t provoke the Tax payers, by the way howz yo relative the one who was fired for plundering resources.
I Don’t know what this Munshya is talking about, but there is talk of Zanzibar breaking away from Tanzania because they feel there are no benefits to be reaped from the union
It is nice to keep history. The article is an eye opener to the ignorants of BA64.So when those who want to put the BA in our constitution are just trying to make correction to what KK could have done.
whatever is going on in this region is absurd. Zambia is known to the outside world as a please in african with no tribal nor political conflicts. where is this selfishness coming from. ever zambian benifited from the coppers mines in the copperbelt, why can’t this be the same. we are one people and if we stand together will prosper. this is a wrong time to start this selfishness attitude. lets work together develop our country. those who initiated this disturbance should be brought in public and punished. lets be smart and learn from other nations mistakes. the west wants us to be fighting so they can capitilize on our stupidit and weakness. American is strong because its united. are zambians that blind to see what other countries have gone thorugh. whoever is responsible should be…
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Might may not solve the issue in Western pronvince. Sadam tried to suppress the Kurds in Northern Iraq with his forces but failed and now the region has autonomy. Dialogue is the answer. No one can hide after committing crimes against humanity.