THE church has vowed to campaign against Patriotic Front (PF) president Michael Sata for advocating gay rights.
And Chief Government spokesperson Lieutenant-General Ronnie Shikapwasha said what Mr Sata is advocating is an abomination and the church must rise against such leaders.
“Churches that believe in Jesus Christ should condemn Mr Sata’s statement because the bible condemns it as an abomination,” he said.
But the Law Association of Zambia (LAZ) says there are no legal provisions in the Zambian laws which provide for gay rights.
LAZ president Stephen Lungu said he has never come across any law that supports the rights of lesbians and homosexuals.
He said this on ZNBC news last night.
[pullquote]LAZ president Stephen Lungu said he has never come across any law that supports the rights of lesbians and homosexuals.[/pullquote]
Commenting on reports that Mr Sata supports gay rights, Evangelical Fellowship of Zambia (EFZ) executive director PukutaMwanza said the church will campaign against political parties and their leaders engaged in advocating unChristian activities such as homosexuality and abortion.
“We are disappointed with news that the PF is supporting same sex marriages. This is alien to Zambia’s traditional values. This is a Christian nation, so it is unthinkable that any leader can promote such things,” he said.
Rev Mwanza said the fact that homosexuality is being promoted and practised elsewhere does not mean it should be permitted in Zambia. He said the church will ensure that gay rights are not enshrined in the republican Constitution.
And Bible Gospel Church in Africa (BIGOCA) overseer Bishop Peter Ndhlovu also said his church will go flat out to campaign against the PF and any other political party promoting gay rights.
“Mr Sata has run out of ideas. If he and the Danish want to propagate gay rights, it will not work in Zambia. The church will not allow the moral fibre of the country to be compromised,” he said.
Efforts to get a comment from Zambia Episcopal Conference (ZEC) and Council of Churches in Zambia (CCZ) failed.
ZEC spokesperson Paul Samasumo referred the matter to the general secretary CleophasLungu who threw it back to Father Samasumo.
And CCZ secretary general Suzanne Matale said the church is not ready to respond.
“We will respond when there is something to respond to,” she said.
Meanwhile, some civil society organisations have released copies of CDs containing a clip of a recorded interview of Patriotic Front (PF) president Michael Sata with some Danish officials in which he supported homosexuality.
[pullquote]“Mr Sata has run out of ideas. If he and the Danish want to propagate gay rights, it will not work in Zambia. The church will not allow the moral fibre of the country to be compromised,” he said.[/pullquote]
Committee of Citizens executive director Gregory Chifire has challenged church mother bodies, and particularly the Zambia Episcopal Conference (ZEC), to state their positions on revelations that Mr Sata has promised to enhance gay rights in Zambia.
Speaking at a press briefing in Lusaka on March 14, Mr Chifire said his organisation and the Forum for Leadership Search (FLS) have reproduced CDs they intend to circulate to the church, donors and members of the public.
According to a recorded interview which was played to journalists, Mr Sata stated that the laws of Zambia recognise gays and lesbians. “The laws are there, all we need is to implement them,” Mr Sata states.
Mr Chifire described Mr Sata as a person who should not be given a chance to rule Zambia. “This man is not worthy of anyone’s vote,” he said.
Mr Chifire challenged Mr Sata to tell the nation which part of the Constitution has provisions which promote homosexuality. He said Zambia is a Christian nation and it is the duty of every leader to uphold Christian principles, values and cultures.
Mr Chifire said Mr Sata is embracing gay rights to get funding from certain western countries pushing for constitutional recognition of gay rights in African countries.
He said the latest casualty in this scheme is Kenya where some donors used key political elements to sneak gay rights into the constitution.
“We defeated these Western countries at the National Constitution Conference when they wanted to bring these rights through the back door and they will be defeated again by rejecting Mr Sata in the voting booth. Voting for Mr Sata would mean endorsing gay rights in Zambia,” he said.
“We would like to hear what the church, especially the Catholic Church where Mr Sata belongs, have to say about this since it does not support such alien things. We want to know what disciplinary measures will be taken against Mr Sata for issuing these statements in support of homosexuality,” he said.
Mr Chifire said while admonishing Mr Sata, the clergy should give a categorical statement on the dangers of Zambia accepting gay rights which can destroy the moral fibre.
And FLS executive director Edwin Lifwekelo challenged Mr Sata to come out in the open and deny that the voice in the recording is not his.
[pullquote]“All I said is that there are laws restricting people from illicit acts. The laws are adequate to deal with that issue. And in any case, those are trivial issues that should not even arise,” Mr Sata said.[/pullquote]
Mr Lifwekelo also condemned Mr Sata’s support for homosexuality which is a shame for someone aspiring for the highest office in the land.
He said the people of Zambia should not make a mistake of electing Mr Sata.
“We cannot have a comedian in State House. We need a focused person like President Banda who has performed beyond expectations in two years,” he said.
But Mr Sata said contrary to what is being said about his meeting with the Danish officials, he said there are adequate laws in the country to protect the Zambian people against illicit activities.
“All I said is that there are laws restricting people from illicit acts. The laws are adequate to deal with that issue. And in any case, those are trivial issues that should not even arise,” Mr Sata said.
Meanwhile, CHARLES MUSONDA reports that the Islamic Supreme Council of Zambia (ISCZ) says it is unacceptable for anyone to embrace sin just for the sake of assuming power.
ISCZ president Suzyo Zimba said in an interview in Lusaka that both the Bible and the Koran do not give homosexuals rights in any society.
“God expects believers to live in a certain way and that is why he has given us laws so that we know what is good and what is bad. If God has not given homosexuals rights, who are we to embrace them? Sin is sin and you can’t embrace it just because you want power,” Mr Zimba said.
[Zambia Daily Mail]
We anticipated this fall from Grace the the day PF became a dean of bestiality with gays being his advisors. Look at it Mmembe, William Harrington, Raf Shenton, Roger Chongwe and Mumbi Phiri. If you know Zambia better you should know this line up better.
If two consenting adults decide to sleep with each other what business is it of yours. You can criminalise some one just becasue of his sexual preferences
God’s wrath became evident with tower of babel.
But Mr Sata said contrary to what is being said about his meeting with the Danish officials, he said there are adequate laws in the country to protect the Zambian people against illicit activities.
“All I said is that there are laws restricting people from illicit acts. The laws are adequate to deal with that issue. And in any case, those are trivial issues that should not even arise,” Mr Sata said.
We told you Sata can not be trusted. Today he is condeming FTJ after supporting the third term bid. when Chiluba was taken on by Levy MHSRIP, he rejoined his long time ally in the name of Sata. In here in the developed world the Gay/Lesbian issue is still contentious. What else are you hiding from us? Be careful abena Zed of this elusive Cobra.
How stupid are we all? An advocate forthe rights of persons that marginalized need not be this politicized. The irony in those with selfish interests speaking in the name of God and bubbling about Babel is nauseating. Isn’t it the Bible that asks that you love your neighbor And not judge. Conditionally you forget because your family’s enjoyment of the fruit reaped off the back of slaving Zambians blinds you to what is truly relevant. Let’s have an ethical argument about why it is right that it pays more to align oneself with a political leader’s selfish policies than it does to put liveson the line mining copper, while some ignorant fool sits behind a keyboard enjoying the fruits of a nation that supports gay rights.
Lungu, Mwanza, Ndhlovu, Zimba, Chifire. Uh. All from one area were someone we all know comes from. Coincidence? Nay. Plants? Yeahhhhhhhh!
#5 the bible says clearly homosexuality is a sin. just like committing murder, and adultery. Sodom and Gommorah were destroyed because of homosexuality.
Let that one who has no sin throw the stone at the woman.
This is cheap politics. Who said Pastors or Rev Vote? At the end of the day we will vote out MMD. MMD is also practicing Corruption, killing people in Mongu and other parts of the country which is also a sin. The question is has all these LAZ, Churches condemned govt action. NO,NO!!! so who can they cheat?
I will not waste my breath blogging about what this I’diot Chifire, Shikapwasha or Mumbi talks in the government media. I think I am much more elite to pick on what makes sense and what doesn’t. Chifire will die from Hunger this year…. He’s been a waste of our time just like Rupiah. Wenkoko we….
According to a recorded interview which was played to journalists, Mr Sata stated that the laws of Zambia recognise gays and lesbians. “The laws are there, all we need is to implement them,” Mr Sata states.
ACCPRDING TO ME THE ABOVE STATEMENT DOESNT SAY SATA APPROVES OF GAY AND LESIBIAN ACTIVITIES. ITS ONLY THAT SOME PEOPLE WANT TO TWIST WHAT HE SAIN. THE STATEMENT IS A HANGING STATEMENT WHICH LITERALLY SAYS THE LAWA RECOGNASE THIS EVIL ACT AND WHAT SHOULD BE DONE IS TO IMPLEMENT THE LAW TO STOP THE EVIL ACT. EVEN IF YOU HATE SOMEONE DONT ADD WORDS IN HIS MOUTH TO KILL HIM. THAT IS SIN.
The God of Abraham, Jacob and Isaac WILL not allow guys and lesbans in our Christian Nation Zambia In Jesus NAME. Whoever is in Satanism and Surpentsm (cobra) will never be president of this lively mother Zambia. We need real change where we dont regret thereafter!
Desparation …… chifire is so f o o l i sh, a normal human can not conclude that he said there laws to support that but he said their ar laws to deal with offenders
But Zanbians also, they have to tank among the most ignorant and self denial-centred lumpens of the worst order. Just look at Zambian prisons, homose.x.u.ality “ki pyatitiii”. As a nation, we have one of the highest AIDS infection rates in the world and illegitimate born babies stand at 60% of all the newly born. Virtually 90% of all these bishops and reverends you hear of voicing opposition of gay rights are molesting children and have hoods of “bana bamu shatini”. So for them homo inclination is terrible but breaking the 7th and 10th commandments is ok! Well, all these pastors should read commandment No. 3, they are doomed by holding his name in vain.
Chifire and MMD Vuvuzelas did you see SATA’s response on Muvi TV last night. He stronly denied and clearly stated that this was prpaganda by Chifire. He said that he strongly oposed homosexuallity. This is MMD propaganda through chifire. You will not succed in poisoining people’s minds. They Love SATA no matter the amount of lies you come up with against him. As for me my vote is for SATA.
when someone denies his statements The POST reproduces the same verbatim…Let Chifire and Lusaka Times reproduce verbatim an unedited version of the interview. Why for example does he say the original interview was for 1 hour but he had reduced it to 42 minutes. Zambians i didn’t know you could be so naive and gullible and waste your precious time to debate such trash from the likes of Chifire, Mumbi and Lifewkelo..these are “hired assasins” – period!
Otherwise all can see that these are sponsored ‘political tricks’ that they are borrowing from Chiluba to try and destroy the formidable opposition they have in Sata.
Daily Mail, please grow up. This is getting out of hand. You think RB will be in power forever? Be professional dont become someones evil messanger.Go in bars see how people scorn the ZNBC news, then you will know you are firing blanks. Ia sure you know this but you ve got to earn your miserable pay
This is just useless propaganda by the state using satellite NGOs. It will not work
Watching Mr SATA on MUVI TV yesterday,He refused those claims against him and totally said GOD only said MAN and WOMAN only not MAN/MAN or WOMAN/WOMAN….the further said will deal with whoever wanted to engange in GAY issues since he is a FULL CHRISTIAN….Cifiri,Lifwikelo,Ronnie why cant you campain for RB/MMD sure.MR SATA will surely win because he is being made popular everyday and you are making him more hero than RB/MMD…You bishops also keep quite,you support even useless programmes implemented by MMD becoz are being PAID MONEY,THESE HUNGRY LION PASTORS ON ZED
Some of these NGO’s and BISHOP’s should be investigated for receiving monies and materail goods stolen from using government FUNDS.Where did these pastors get monies to buy expensive cars,build houses even build there churches?we know where/who gave the monies….these pastors dont talk of unemployment,poverty,luck of medicines,buying mobile hospitals,zamtel saga,single sources issues,corruption issues and FEAK NCC where RIGHTS to food have been removed…just wait SATA will RULE,wherether you like it or NOT..Thevies and corrupt people are living in FEAR hence can PROPERGATE anything.
Is it that its only sata making headlines ba LT. Everyday same person, aawe its becoming boring.
Pretence Ba Zambia and yet Muleitomba?? WHY make Gay issue a big deal, these things are happening? A leader of a nation should tolerate every one. Is this how cheap MMD has become that they politicize everything including amafi.
#17 Deja Vu
Your drunken kaponya friends scorn ZNBC under the influence of alcohol and Dagga.Honestly you dont expect journalists to get opinions on anything from bars?
Big pipe were are you. homosexuality means getting ones stiffened manhood and inserting it into the anus of another man. the anus is meant for expelling unwanted food products called faeces which are emptied into a toilet and flushed. now this is the area sata says a man should get his dick and slot it is and release semen into it. this is a man who wants to rule zambia to allow weird rich men to be shafting our sons with their bigpipes. fred mmembe, william harrington, charlie sex mubanga, jean kapata what do you have to say about homos and lesbians.
#17 dejavu it depends on which bar you go to bcos in most clubs when its 19hours news time everyone order the barman to switch to channel 136 on dstv or simply demand iwe put ku znbc we listen to news. in most decent bars noise is not allowed at 19hrs. de javu which bars do you patronise maybe mayela night club breakpoint club vegas or cockpit
Sata supporting gay rights??. My foot… Inwardly, Sata knows that this is bad. He belongs to the Catholic Church which abhores this practice. The problem with ba Sata is that he can do anything to win support. This is bad management practice. Let your Yes be Yes and No be No. Once voted in, he will disown this gay right issue and the Dannes knows this fact. “A drowning camel can surely cling to a floating straw”. God bless all wonderful Zambians.
Give me a break!!!!! Some of the politicians and men of the cloth are the ones who end up picking prostitutes from the streets for a good b.low job, defile some of their female flocks and they now want to sit on the high horse and pretend to be more holier than others!!! Come on, who are you kidding? Even divorce is sin and we hear Ronnie is a culprit (I stand to be corrected). Thou shall not judge! Lead by example or shut up.
#6 well observed, a clear case of regional/tribal bootlicking. Donchi kubeba!
catholic priests, weird sicko wealthy men and bazungu are the ones who love shafting pig pipes in the anus of young and compromised boys
SHAZZA Naiwe, MMD have Failed Flat on this one, SATA is a real leader not pretenders??? Thandi #27 U are spot on they all pretend and BONG young Girls even boys nefimafumo??MMD should lead by example.
First and for most, I am not gay but I really sympathies with these folks because of constant rejection they continue to face from the morally bankrupt ass holes of our society like this Mr. Chifire and everyone else that claim to be standing on the moral pedestal of our land.
I truly don’t give a **** where one sticks his manhood because that is not my business if that is what makes him happy, is someone telling me that straight people don’t have anal or oral sex? What we need to realize it that gays and lesbians have lived this world since the beginning of time, in most of them it is not a choice but thats how they are, by the way, even if it where a choice, so what? They are not steeling from you and buying 150 suits and 300 pairs of shoes; they are not begging anything from you…
# 16 Mwebeni,
For you: … as gay CDs released
COMPACT Disks (CDs) containing a 42-minute clip of the interview between Patriotic Front (PF) president Michael Sata and some journalists from Denmark were yesterday released to allow the Zambian people make their own judgments and opinions.
At a joint media briefing at Lusaka’s Courtyard Hotel, Committee of Citizens executive director Gregory Chifire and Forum for Leadership Search executive director Edwin Lifwekelo said the CDs would be distributed.
Mr Sata’s interview with Danish journalists, Thomas Duus and Lene Winther quotes Mr Sata as saying the Zambian laws protect gays and lesbians and that the laws must be implemented.
The problem with Afica is that is governed and confused with three things: Religion, Westernisation and Traditional culture. The three have made an African confused and in most cases hypocritical. What would incorporation of Gay rights or prostitution in our constitutions change in Africa when these things exist? Right now in Zambia, we have many prostitutes in every sub district and district. You just need to take a tour at night and see for yourself. Dont we need to regulate these people so that we know them and as the so called Christians visit them?
SATA and his SATAnism acts, God forbid!
Could someone advised if there is a law against being gay or lesbian in the Zambian Laws.
As far as there is no such law against these vices, then it is not illegal to practice them as long as it is between two consenting adults.
Then the question should be posed to the Vice-President and Justice Minister as to why they have not put the law in place to make these activities illegal. This man is a learned counsel and has the power to push through such legislation if he is against gays and lesbians.
Continued below:
From above:
Whilst being gay or a lesbian is frowned upon due to perceived Zambian culture, we still see wife/husband grabbers (FTJ Chiluba and Regina) freely intermingling with the “church”, drug dealers and multi-polygamous (VJ) why is “Red Lips” with red lips getting involved and condemning these vices.
The Big Thief, FTJ Chiluba, due to his selfish interests declared Zambia a Christian nation but this did not make the Christian Bible to become part of the constitution and hence is not the law of the land.
The UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights provides Article 1 provides that:.
All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
people call a spade a spade not a big spoon Sata is maybe a cousin to the devil
THIS IS SMEAR CAMPAIGN. The right source of info who journalists should be contacting is Sata. fortunately some of us can’t be fooled by MMD LIES. Ronnie is a liar who said Sata has insulted all Luapula & Northen chiefs.
This article can’t even cheat a kindergarten child.
Whatever propaganda you bring accusing His Excellency Mr Michael Chilufya Sata, it will not work. Viva PF.
Desperation fi mmd.
Just look at the source of the info. mmd daily mail. What this stup/ity newspaper should do is first get first hand info from Mr Sata and then write. Dont just publish hearsay from crippled minds like chifine, mumbi, lifwekelo. Daily mail and timesm be warned. What are you going to write about Mr Sata when he scoops the Presidency this year? Are you going to contunue with your useless and biased reporting? Bafikkala.
Some of you guys are incapable of objective debate. Do you have to look at every issue through the lenses of partisan politics? And what accounts for such bitterness and odium? Poverty? Ignorance? Frustration? The truth of the matter is that who ever becomes President will not generously put some cash into your pocket. You have to sweat for it – through honest hard work. Homosexuality is abominable, whether promoted by PF, MMD, or whichever political party. That is the issue. Period.
Lets quote:
“LAZ president Stephen Lungu said he has never come across any law that supports the rights of lesbians and homosexuals.”
The question to LAZ is: Is there a Law against being against homosexuality? Could you provide us with the Article for the same. This is what Stephen Lungu did not say to conclude the debate.
correction:
Is there a Law against homosexuality?
#23 VJ Rigger says-But you embrace Chiluba the Chief Dagga smoker? Ikalafye. You us Kaponyas, but you still want our votes.At least I dont need to myanga somebodys rump in order to live.
What a country! malabishi always talking about one man Sata this, Sata that…whether you like it or not we wil vote for SATA in big numbers. Chi Chifire walewanka everyday pa CBU we know u. what rights have you in society? No matter what u are saying en chanda chimba the fool is saying u are just strengthening our man of Action Viva! Sata. ……………Pabwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaato
If only Christians knew that gay people are gods creation they would keep quiet, he makes the rain to fall on the righteous and the unrighteous, who are we to judge others, just preach the word of god to all and he is coming as the judge.
#7: The bible also promotes slavery:
“However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)”.
No sane person should use anything in that terrible book to justify attacking adults for consensual, adult sexual behaviour that harms nobody.
Each time elections are approaching Sata becomes more crazy. When a microphone is put near his mouth he gets so excited just like a one month old baby on seeing the mum’s breasts! He yaps carelessly, he confuses himself and excites Kaponyas. By so doing he thinks he will be voted into power. Sata is a mental case and it is a pity some people encourage his lunacy. Now he even claims the Pact is still intact. Now Taiwan is part of China. He is not a Christian but a ‘Catholic Fundamentalist’ to quote his own words. By using the word ‘Fundamentalist’ he thinks we’ll consider him educated and Christian. Nope! What is fundamental about his immoral behaviour with the Bishop’s sisters. When is he suing the midget???
Aapa waitaya SATA. Because of your support for homosexuality…. BYE… As Zambians, we’re saying NO to homosexuality. Nangu ku fwaya funding… bushe ni so.
#32 Mwata
awe ba Mwata naimwe…everything here is being quoted from the same suspicious lot who are alleged to have released the CDs. are you sure that what is being quoted by Cifire is exactly what is on the CD – WORD FOR WORD? OR have they paraphrased to give a distorted version as to whip up negative emotions against Sata? And did you listen to Sata on Muvi last night?
My point is simple let us have access to the 1hr interview played by an independent party word for word – verbatim bane.
Gay people don’t infringe on anyones rights. If being Gay is a sin under Christianity it doesn’t mean it should be a crime under Zambian law. Zambia should protect civil liberties of its citizens. Being born gay is not anyones fault if anything Christians should ask God why he made someone to be Gay in the first place. Sexual preference comes naturally and you can’t force someone to like the oppsite sex. If anything it only alienates them and make them do it secretly. I guess the solution is don’t recognise gay marriages but don’t criminalise homosexuality either.
The LT is campaigning for the MMD already. Because of the breakup of the pact, they are smelling blood.
To the side issue of gay rights – I think gay and other rights against discrimination on race, tribe, etc. are protected through Articles 11 and 23 of the 1996 Constitution. Which are basically copies of the United Nations Charter on Human Rights.
More seriously, on the new situation. I always disliked the fact that the UPND is too neoliberal in it’s leanings. Zambia needs a clear break from neoliberal policies, and social democracy is the best available way forward. People need to have basic services again. The tax burden needs to be shifted back from the workers (PAYE) to the mining companies (Windfall Tax, or actually collected corporate taxes and dividends to ZCCM-IH).
With the fall of the Pact, everyone should switch their support towards the PF.
HH is a great guy, but he didn’t keep his party together, and he hasn’t seen the light on the need to break away from the neoliberalism that is already represented in the MMD.
We can’t go forever and watch foreign mining companies rob the country’s resources, and magically believe like Minister Musokotwane, that the economy will benefit from PAYE collected from below minimum wage salaries. Or that we can afford to just pay interest rates, because we borrow instead of tax. Musokotwane always talks about Zambia’s economy in a way that makes it clear that it isn’t his money he is giving away. It is our money, and he doesn’t care. That has to stop.
The mines are stealing billions of US dollars.
I am looking for the CD in which Sata is said to have uttured until then its not advisable to comment on issues raised by people who’s conduct is worse than homosexuals!
Zambians are hypocrites, you say that the bible does not allow same sex marriages,well the last time i read the bible it does not allow adultery, stealing etc.Zambia was declared a christian nation by a shameless thief-cum-adulterer ,chiluba. That chiluba grabbed somebody’s wife,is that not a sin?yet he goes in churches, and hes even given a chance to preach.How did george kunda’s lips turn red? I guess what is sauce for the goose is also source for the gander.Infact that thing of declaring zambia a christian nation mst cease.If somebody is gay/lesbian leave them,i dont see how a neighbour is affected when somebody is gay.Ati christian nation, even the white men who brought christianity to you do not behave like that,not even isreal where jesus was born is a christian nation.
Kubeba #52 and other retards who are saying God made people gay, please don’t let your love for Sata lead you into blaspheme. “Let no one say when he is tempted, I am tempted from God; for God is incapable of being tempted by [what is] evil and He Himself tempts no one” – James 1:13 (Amplified Bible). You have every right to support the immoral behavior of gay people but don’t say God made them so. Even your Sata stopped short of saying God made people gay but you his worshipers think it a light thing to say so! To you Sata is worth incurring the wrath of God, just to make him President. The fact that other wicked men are doing evil things does not mean God tolerates it.
Rat Race you are spot on these same churches are quiet when the MMD thugs threatened to gang rape Nawakwi, they are zee when Zamtel is corruptly to a tyrant in Libya I would not be surprised if some of these chaps raving and ranting are homosexuals!
One day a man caught in the act of sodomy was brought before Jesus. ‘Teacher, this man was caught in the very act of sodomy. The Bible says ‘man shall not lie with man as with a woman because it is an abomination and should be stoned. But what do you say?’ Jesus stooped and wrote on the ground. Then standing up he said, ‘Let him who has not f o r n i cated, adulterated, lied, coverted, fathered a child out of wedlock, stolen, slandered, hated, rude to parents, cast the first stone.’
Our Phd students have researched and the masses view is that Sata has lost the plot and the majority of Zambian people have rejected him for his pro gay rights.
The Saint #59. Do you know the definition of sodomy? Why are you telling lies? It was a woman who was caught in adultery and brought before Jesus. Even if you were trying to paraphrase the bible story you have got it all wrong. Read your Bible The Saint!!!
Zambian Politics is full of stinking boooooosheeeeeeet
Rupiah has sold zamtel against our wish and thrown our relatives on the streets, has given his small eyed pint size friiends the right to kill Zambians, has approved the killings of our pipo by the police, has married a girl old enough to be his grand dota (is that not defilement), has legalised corruption, the list is endless. Homosexuality is not human but whether legal or illegal it is there. You are making it an issue cos it is Sata who said something about it. Don’t you get tired you empty heads? How many things are you going to accuse him of and none sticks? MMD if you are man enough leave him alone and meet him at the general elections finish.
Discrimination against gay people is wrong. It is a violation of human rights. Judging others is sinful too. It is no different than Apartheid in South Africa or Jim Crow in America.
The worst kind of people are child molesters not innocent homosexuals.
Zambia should quit being homophobic and concentrate on the real problems in the country.
Mr. Saint, the portion you have quoted (59) does not appear in the Bible. It was an untrue addition to the scriptures, in the earlier version of the King James Bible by the Roman Catholic Church, which was later discredited by bible scholars and conseqently discarded in later versions of the King James. Additionally, even this fake portion did not talk of a man who had committed sodomy, but of a woman who had committed adultery.
@VITALI, gay people were created by God,unless you say the devil created some people aswell.Nobody likes gays,and they know it,Its not by choice that a person becomes gay,they are born like that.Nobody would choose to be gay(which nobody likes).Rules and laws exist to protect us from harming each other,therefore if two adults males decide to be with each other,its ok as long as they do not disturb the next person.You zambians you extol chiuba ,whose habitual ciminal acts led to the death of many people,yet you want to crucify a gay person??Wake up, even the white man who brought christianity to you is not such a zealot for x-tianity.Next time there is a topic of such importance, please keep the bible away and use your brains.Ati x-tian nation.
Some of the people parroting about Sata’s comments on homosexuality are just hiding in the “we are a Christian Nation” but see who they eat with, they are in the forefront supporting all sorts of inhuman things which are being committed against their fellow Zambians. The pipo quoted in the story above, what have they said about the killings in Mongu, Mazabuka, the shootings of miners by chinese, the removal of the anti corruption clause, Rupiah’s marriage to his grand dota, the mistreatment our pipo receive from infestors. Anywhere nothing lasts for ever.
People, do you remember the two Zulus who where used as vuvuzelas by MMD during the 1996 elections. The two are no longer in Zambia, they probably sought refuge in Malawi after falling out of the MMD’s favour. Lifwekelo, Chifire and Siulapwa are next to bolt after this year’s elections! Unfortunately, even the gay issue will not sway right thinking Zambians from kicking out the MMD come elections.
David Livingstone brought Christianity to you guys because you were busy selling each other to Arab slave traders. He thought that maybe if you became Christians, you may at least start seeing one another as equals. I guess he was wrong. Today Christianity has become a political tool and justification for stripping others of their rights. Christain leaders have a tendency of supporting whoever is in power and getting financial benefits. They supported Nazism, Apartheid and in Zambia they supported the pygmy. Gay rights are enshrined in the UN charter. They are international law. Leave the gay people alone and support them where they need help. Those people are not a danger to the community, if anything they are a resource since they help to keep the population low!
WE SHOULD BE TALKING ABOUT HELP OUR DEAR BROTHERS AND SISTERS IN JAPAN. JAPAN HAS BEEN OUR CLOSE ALLIE AND HAS BEEN FOR US FOREVER. That Zambia national service (ZNS) languishing and drinking kachasu/tujilijili doesn’t need any skill to do demolitions, cleaning and rescue. We are a shame and a curse to human race. Why do we even call ourselves Christian anyway? Money for stupid and useless by-election is always available. We shouldn’t talk about this valueless f.o.o.ls that can never effect change.
It’s amazing suddenly Chifire and Lifwekelo can afford to cut CDs and distribute them freely to Zambians? You can see how the MMD is abusing public resources………………..MMD get lost!
#64 u sound gay…i wonder if u are normally on top or under.But u sound like one who is normally under.All wat we are doing is not judging homosexuality but we are rebuking this sinful act.Even animals now think rationally than characters like u #64.
I have never seen a male animal going for a male animal or vice verse.This thing must be condemned and may the Lord of Abraham save us from this abomination.
Lifwekelo & Chifire are quacks! Nonetheless, the taped interview they allegedly have is proof that Sata will indeed do anything (including selling his soul) just to get hold of some donor funding. Don’t get me wrong, I’m a liberal and hence support gay rights and I’m against all forms of prejudice; be it racism, homophobia, religious bigotry etc. However, our Zambian laws do NOT recognize gay rights and we should abide by that (however impractical). Sata’s stance proves that he’s really a snake who has no rational stance on any serious matter but will flip flop when it suits him!
Gay people are sick sub-animals.Anyone on the thread ever seen a Pig or Dog stuffing its hardened pipe into the a.ss of its fellow male Pig/Dog? Sickos is the best description of gays, infact they should be quarantined so that they dont pollute this earth.
wait a minute. Why are you guys so crazy about gays? Please let God be our judge. After all, all of you guys are sinners just as we are. Please Sata, stand your guts and support the rights of gays. They are human beings just as we are.
What is RB ‘s stand on Gays and lesbians? secondly if Zambia was declared a christian nation years ago why didnt the then govt specifically make a law to make gayism illegal? LAZ has failed to point out if it is illegal to be gay. Sata was merely translating the constitution which states that every Zambian has a right to their own belief. I wonder what you educated law experts would say if you were asked what the Zambian law says on Gays and lesbians
Also, what is so cynical about this issue, is that while people are supposed to get worked up over gays, they are supposed to forget that they are being stolen from by this government.
There is 40% malnutrition in the country, while the MMD is putting up their feet and are refusing to tax the mines.
And this issue is supposed to distract people from the MMD?
#24..Shazza did you know that your holy land Israel celebrate gayism every year in summer? checkout GAY PARADE Israel free videos online!
You must denouce hatred for those that are different, being gay is not a choice nor a whitemans game, gay people are found in all races & countries on this planet, even plants and animals have their own good nr. of gays! It’s a natural instinct, it’s a born thing, it’s not a trend, its like being born black or albino… you get me!!!
@72&74 ,so it is justifiable to commit adultery because dogs and other animals can have multi-partners??Guys your thinking is flawed.One who commits adultery is worse than s gay person because he hurts the feelings of his/her partner,and brings diseases and unwanted children,thats why i support arabs who whip them.A gay person hurts nobody’s feelings.@74 ,try to put up an argument without using the bible/religion,am always surprised at how you negros have really embraced the bible as if x-tianity started in africa.After all,hitherto the arrival white men we were worshiping trees.interesting to know how other people think.
#72 Conservative – You can say whatever you want and propel whatever insults you want but one day Zambia will give rights to gay people and I pray that you live to see it. It is people with your views that have kept Zambia a third world country.
Get your head out of your straight a,s,s and contribute positively to the growth of Zambia otherwise you will die poor with your stubborn attitude and fake righteousness
#61 Vitali
#65 Observer.
Who told you that I am quoting The Bible? Have I appended any reference to this? Or could it be that your subconcious has been struck? There is a subliminal message in this but don’t react with unbriddled emotion.
As far as I am concerned, this is one sure case of looking to take the splinter in another person’s eye while forgeting the timber in your own. Practicing h o m o s e x u a l i t y is a sin and morally wrong but it is not a matter for government. Government must protect individuals from being harmed by another but not when people consent to do something to each other. I don’t agree with Sata often but here, whether we like it or not, he is right. The Human Rights act being in the constitution is superior to the penal code and Stephen Lungu is wrong. One day, courts are going to rule on the illegality of the law against gays. As far as I am concerned, practicing gays ‘will not inherit the kingdom of God’ but that is not criminal.
#79 RAT RACE
I agree with you, but please do not poo poo Christianity just because some people misuse it. Christianity in The Bible is different from the Christian Religion which many people practice. Jesus cam preaching the ‘good news’ of the kingdom and he never ever shouted abuse at those who were ‘sinners and tax collectors’ but reserved His vitriol on the ‘religious’ and self righteous (Tsadokim) and separatist (Perezim) chaps. Many Missionaries brought religion and not Christianity to Africa, A great majority of Africans understood the gospel of substitutionary sacrifice which was foreshadowing Jesus’ death. Alll those who died before this are saved just like in the Old testament. Anyone who thinks that his own deeds are good enough will perish.
Leaders need to be morally upright. Their own words and actions will judge them. First the Taiwan money and them gay issues in a loooooong list of moral and PR gaffes. How do people hope to get more money in their pockets kanshi. Zambia think hard and long for your future’s sake. Tukalila if we make a mistake here. We seem to be forgetful how far we’ve come. It takes one day to wreck it all – election day.
How many of you bloggers have stopped to think, what if my brother or sister is gay? Remember that the people you are demonizing have brothers and sisters too. It is immoral to treat them as second class citizen. Tell me, do you know who went to bed with who last night? Guys, God is bigger than our simple minds. Allow gays room to live their lives as children of God, loved and died for by Christ, whose name we constantly abuse in Zambia. How can we claim to be a Christian nation without love for others? Maybe I am wrong but to be a Christian nation means to love even our enemies. Unless my Christianity is different from the one most bloggers practice. Remember, LOVE is the the greatest commandment.
As for Africans, we were building pyramids while the rest of the Europeans were crouching in caves. The great pyramid at Giza itself has the gospel symbolised in it. The missing capstone is the stone that the builders rejected. Its burial chambers have significance too. All these symbols were representing the Christain gospel but over the millenia, were hijacked by heretics and converted for heathen worship. Christianity is not a ‘white man’s invention.’ several Africans went with Israel into the wilderness under Moses. Moses married an African woman. The tribes of Manasseh and Benjamin were African. Jesus first sought refuge in Africa.
#72 i can see you have been deprived of information about human sexual activities thus your luck of understanding about the topic!
Guys like you only think that normal sex is only when you climb a woman on top with no affection… there is a lot more about sex than wham bam thank you ma’am… (missionary position)
forget the nonsense that you read in the bible book and start living!!
educate yourself about human sexual activies and behaviours..
@THE SAINT,thank you its just the hypocricy of zambians is really disturbing,when a neighbour commits a crime is worse than the same crime committed by him/her.That is not good at all.
The Saint
I hear you but at the same I don’t. By birth since Adams fall sin has existed in man making him essentially under judgement meaning that unless redeemed, man remains already condemned. Yes, one sin is no worse than the other, adultery no less worse than homosexual behaviour but..
#82 who needs the kindom of god when you can make your heaven on earth. The fairy tale of eating manna everyday and for some.., virgins waiting upon arrival must have gotten to you ey?
Cont’d
we are specifically given context under which God’s wrath is provoked or rather what he decides to do when men’s sin goes ‘overbode’ as when he rained brimestone on Sodom and it’s twin sin city Gomorah on account of this pervasion of sodomy as well as in Romans where we are particularly given a glimpse of what happens when God ‘gives up men’ to their lusts and so begin to do despicable deeds…
i dont know why you are all arguing over this issue because sata has clarified it already yet the debate is going on. Can it be you bloggers are out of touch with whats happening in Zambia or you are just dumb
Cont’d
the issue I have against your approach is basically that in your attempt to have a balanced approach you down play the very stance God has taken agaisnt ‘general sin’ by essentially equating this pervasion of sodomy to for instance adultery. In other words, for you sodomy is no pervasion but ordinary sin!
I personally know 6 Zedmen who are gay 2 Zed lesbians
most homosexuals in Zed are married to the opposite sex becuz of fear and the stigma attached to being gay in africa.
The only way to remove this stigma is if and when a son of a president of an african country came out and said he was gay then it will be the norm.
like ‘they’ did with HIV and a presidents son dying of Aids
before that everyone was hiding and pretending.. even though they were dying like flies
Bane does anyone know a dude by the name of WELLINGTON KANSHIMIKE? He took money and goods from people here in the US and promised to ship to Zambia. It is almost a year and he has gone underground. The last we heard he was in PA area.
Welly if you are reading this, please come out clean before this explodes. We have given you enough chances.
according to statistics one in ten people is LESBIAN GAY BISEXUAL OR TRANSGENDER (LGBT)
#77, MrK your comments and statistics are discredited and badly tattered after your shameful lies on Chile. So what do you think you can tell us on mining taxes or anything else for that matter? And by the way your few days in hiding have not erased my memory of your shocking lies, maybe keep away from the blog for some few weeks. In any case you obviously have absolutely nothing to offer other bloggers apart from lies.
#92, Chilufya would do well not to deny what he said. Those chaps have a tape recording of what he said. In today’s episode of “Stand Up for Zambia” by Chanda Chimba III, a tape was played back and Chilufya said exactly the words that are attributed to him. I mean EXACTLY. He said and I quote “… Zambia has laws which protect gay rights, Zambia has laws which protect the rights of lesbians…. what is remaining is just implementation…..”.
Looks like the cobra’s tactics have been learnt very well, ony difference is that unlike Sata, these guys are telling the truth and they can give you a recording to prove it.
By the way MrK, do you have any sense of shame left in you? Obviously not, with PF cadres the word “shame” does not exist in their vocabulary. Fortunately, most bloggers and voters too, know PF cadres and their leader Chilufya. I am just appalled that you can continue telling lies even after being proven to be a liar.
Chilufya SAID IT, most Zambians have now heard the tape recording where Chilufya said the words.
@ The saint thankyou for educating the masses of Africans here about who trully built the pyramids. Most don’t even know the Arab Egyptians arrived in that country 629 AD. Jesus as a baby was cradled in Africa cause Europe back then like now had some freaky issues going on.
1 in 101 of the people supporting gay abomination is not African, calling us negroes RAT RACE, 2 in the 101 supporting this curse called homosexuality is a female, you know how certain Zambian women want to be white and non African. Wait until your Aryan hubbies want to stick their Zwambos in the wrong canal not the reproductive one will you regain common sense. How do you support people in europe on this matter when the sold your brothers and sisters like chisense or mabisi? Forget not your God or culture Alkebulans.
So what is sin . ? Could someone define that for me please ?
# 79 rat race .. good points.
King
The passage you are thinking about in Romans 1 is one of the most misunderstood. The Apostle Paul is concerned about the revelation of God’s righteousness in v12. He is intending to show that without ‘this righteousness’ all that you see around you, whether among Jews or non-Jews is God’s wrath. The whole book of Romans aims at proving that ALL have sinned and Jesus’ righteousness is freely available to ALL.
Why are so many busy commenting here and not on the ARV shortages in this country? Or on Japan? And anyway, those that say animals are never gay, have you never seen a male dog humping another male? It might be just for dominance but still!
In this case I applaud Inutu Mupango from Muvi TV. She was the only person who made an effort to clarify this. She got it from the horse’s mouth. Unless that was lip syncing, SATA said he was a fundamental catholic who could not tolerate homosexuality. ZNBC, Daily Mail and Times of Zambia would have done us a lot of justice to go and hear his view other than covering Gregory Cifire and Edwin Lifwekelo as sole source of the news. Also they could have done us justice to approach the foreign embassies that are allegedly supporting the Gay-ism & Lesbianism issue. I am not a pro-Sata guy anymore but a fairer news coverage i what i demand. What if Gregory and Edwin just dreamt that Sata met these diplomats and discussed hiomosexuality, what if it is true that he met them, we need the…
# 103 Sin means to “miss the mark”, or “failing to live up to God’s righteous standards.” Jehovah God, as our Creator, Universal Sovereign and Heavenly Father, has the right to set laws and standards for mankind. Rejection of these laws and standards is what has led the world to be in the sorry state it is in. Unless you are self-delusional, you can see that the earth is in a real mess.
# 83 Saint, you are right the Bible has been misrepresented by so many so-called Christian religions. What it contains, though, are God’s thoughts which, if followed, would benefit individuals and society.
#107 Sin means ‘miss the mark” and thats what gays and lesbians do ka? they miss the point. You know what i mean, the point.
My last word on this issue. Flawed is the reasoning of those suggesting that ‘individual’ or ‘human rights’ or ‘consensual’ action justify deviant behaviour. If, for argument’s sake, we applied this line of reasoning to adultery and incest, would we rightly say that these are okay, on the basis of individual and human rights and consenting adults? Is that the path you would like society to take?
And for those wishing to portray gays as innocents, who should be left alone, the problem is that instead of remaining in their holes to do whatever they do privately, these people crawl out and try to flaunt their pervesity in the face of the public. Not even normal people do that!
#106, I refer you to my blogs at 98 & 100. Last night I watched Stand Up for Zambia on ZNBC TV. A tape recording of Mr Sata’s words was played and he DID say those words of the constitution of Zambia containing provisions for gayism and lesbianism and that what was required was just to implement those laws. I am surprised taht Mr Sata could deny what is loud and clear on the tape. But then, should I be surprised given Mr Sata’s penchant for telling lies and flip flopping? Tell MUVI TV to air the programme and you will hear for yourself if you did not watch it on ZNBC TV last night.
gay rights are universal. but to retain divine favor as a nation we just have to abash gay. the devil knows this sin hastens Gods judgements on any people.