Gays and Lesbians in Zambia

1. Leviticus 20:13 says “If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of the have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.”

   This clearly shows that gayism is not a human right and is not even allowed. This was what led to the destruction of city of sodom. I pray the govenment will not go for this.

   • mmmm Mwami bushe r all zambians xtian now -and shud they all aspire to be xtian-then where is the democracy-and who r we to caste the first stone-all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God-how is homosexuality different from adultery? -respect pipos choices even if they do not conform to ur values-tolerance is something that democracy shud fight to uphold.

   • Leviticus also says you shall not eat pork – that means bacon, ham, pork sausages, pork chops, pork belly, munjiri etc. It also says you shall not cut your hair. It also says a menstruating woman shall not prepare food. Do all Zambians abide by these rules? Do you?

2. Well said-all the more reason to separate the state from church-cos if religion is wat is being used to infringe on the rights of a group of pipo then that religion is bad ,despite its God being good!-lets be tolerant!

3. mwansa sex orientation in animals is only between male and female.even earthiests know that there is male and female.sex is only supposed to be practiced between a man and a woman. even if you dont use your bible,u can still use your brain naiwe.you sound to be into the practice yourself.as long i live i cannot allow my son or duaghter marrying one of same kind. that is *****ism at its best.sanya iwe

   • There is a type of Monkey that practices gayism

   • Mmmmmmmmmm, I doubt it! Hynas have both a virgiana and pennis, so God made a mistake there too????????

   • http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_displaying_homosexual_behavior

     Many animals practice homosexuality. In fact, for giraffes, it is more common than heterosexuality. 

4. It is not my lifestyle too.Who am I to judge? If we are to live in a free society then we need to support all ethnicities,religions, and sexual orientations.Hate won`t take us anywhere.

   • you don’t deserve to call youself ZEBIGE.what advice are you going to give the little one’oky boys go ahead put your long assents in his a…. its oky’c’mon brotherman .

5. No gay rights in Zambia finito! Follow Ban Ki-Moon ku UN if agrieved. Atase!!!

6. We all enjoy freedom of speech and expression.You have a right to voice your disapproval of homosexuality based on your religious belief. But dosen’t freedom of religion also mean freedom from others religion being imposed on you ?

7. Gay rights is not merely allowing people to declare publicly they are gay but they should have same rights as married people in terms of tax benefits,right to adopt,etc..in short, laws have to be changed to accomodate gay partners like they apply for married man and woman .Do we really want such nonsense in Zambia? However I know person who I went to school with at UNZA is now Gay and I feel no different towards him except I feel sad for him.I do not respect him less as a person though.

8. i actually had a gay dog-loved it to death-maybe the hypothesis that even animals r not gay doesnt hold true-cos im old enuff to have seen dogs mounting dogs -even wen there’s bitches!

9. ba mwansa besa go shove that shit up yours and moon’s ass…atase. what about procreation? styopet

   • Way out of line brother Moron.Why should others who believe differently than you not be allowed to live the way they choose as long as it does not encroach on your rights or safety or harms others?

10. I also want my right to cultivate,sell or smoke Mbanje recognised.I also want my right to have sex with a dog recognised.I also want my right to have sex with a relative (incest) recognised…

11. i have reversed my earlier statement 
    thank you chambia???

12. Why should others who believe differently than you not be allowed to live the way they choose as long as it does not encroach on your rights or safety or harms others?

13. too much freedom is dangerous and stupid. you fools you call gay as freedom or human rights. do you rearly think this is right? fools fools sinners sinners why do you even think you are developing when you are moving away more from god. try to die first then when you come back from death then start talking about gay. fools fools you are and your money lust. dont you see that we have enough land to caltivate .

14. I agree that our we should not judge our brothers and sisters who practice homosexuality. But to allow it is like allowing adultery to go unpunished? Would this work in our society? Even adulterers meet in private. But they face consequences once caught.  Even murderers kill in private, thieves steal in private, etc. We have to be careful about what we will tolerate or else our society will decay.

15. Sex is indeed logically supposed to be practiced between a man and woman because there is a fruit of that effort… A CHILD…which is indeed good for the continuity of the human race. The bible and God are clear about this…but again this doesnt mean anything to non Christians…
    However, people that have decided to go against this (gay people are not born BUT decide to be gay-my opinion-free will)have sinned in the eyes of God, just like molesters, MMD, drunkards and myself…we should all be sent to jail in Zambia, our Christian Nation!
    My point is this, we need to remove the tree in our eyes to see this issue clearly…denying these people their right to committ sin doesnt make us holy when no one is denying us our right ku tolling from our popular niteclubs in Zambia…God help us

    • Just thought I should correct you here. Not all people who wish to have sex expect nor do they want or need babies!!! I have seen barren women and men whose “little soldiers” can’t swim but enjoy sex just as much as people who want and can have babies.

      In fact humans are probably the only intelligient animal species (except a few monkey species) who engage in sex just for the enjoyment of it. Most animal species only have sex when it is time to make babies, the rest of the time they abstain—–ka poofoo! there goes there goes your theory, up in smoke!!!!

16. This is painfully true.

17. I have always been anti gay but this article seems to slightly move me and almost make me sit onthe fence. I’m interested in two points the write has made. The first one is about what pipo do in privacy being private.Spot on! If somoeone whats to do whatever they want to do away from the eyes of the public, fair enough. I’m sure this happens even at the very moment despite there being a law that forbids it. Point two is the writer saying he decided to drop the idea of using the bible as he spoke to the gay person cause he realised he was dealing with an eathiest. Well, I dont quite agree with this point. In muslim countries where they use Sharia law, they use the muslim priciples to rule their countries and it doesnt matter whether you are non muslim. So this should be the case for us 2

18. PEOPLE PLEASE TELL ME, IS THIS KA BAN KI-MON GAY? IF SO PLEASE ZAMBIA IS NOT A
    PLACE FOR HIM TO COME AND PREACH THIS NOSESE TO HELL WITH HIM.

    • Joyce,
      And the UK is not a place for you advocate jailing Gay persons from either.

19. This shouldn’t even be a topic of discussion. Mr Sata, should homos be legalised you will face the wrath of God and it wont be pretty

20. Iwe Chi Mwansa Besa ulichiwelewele sana. Animals were created earlier than man and they have stuck to GOD-given natural principles of SEX. Why should man, though created later but in GOD’S IMAGE flout the principles of nature. IT CAN ONLY BE BY THE DEVIL’S INFLUENCE MWANA. CENJELA UKAPYA LESA NGA UFULWA.

    • From my understanding the writer of this article is not supporting gays rights.He is instead calling for tolerance and acceptance of those peple who are into these vices.Insulting and calling the writer names is not only uncouth but intellectually lame.Let us learn to comment objectively and with the right flame of mind.Some of you bloggers here are just too childish.

21. There are some things where most of us share the same opinion (e.g., murder is wrong,homesexuality is wrong)”
    .
    Why do we share that opinion? What is right and wrong is based on majority opinion.

    • So the majority opinion in 1941 Germany that all Jews on this planet needed to be killed made the holocaust right?

22. From my understanding the writer of this article is not supporting gays rights.He is instead calling for tolerance and acceptance of those peple who are into these vices.Insulting and calling the writer names is not only uncouth but intellectually lame.Let us learn to comment objectively and with the right flame of mind.Some of you bloggers here are just too childish.lol

23. This christian rubbish must stop.Whats christian about Zambia?Criminals,rapists ,corruption,desease,ubupuba, poverty,tribalism,racism inequality and all this in a so called “christian country”.They are more important things in life than what people do in there bedrooms.

    • ba Imbwa wrong place wrong time-but i have been looking high and low for zambians in berlin any chance like 1 in a million u are in berlin or near?cheers

24. @S.M.M The very same Bible asks us not to judge others and just so you know,chritianity is a personal relationship between a person and God himself. We will all die one day and we will be judged, so let God judge the gay pipo. according to christianity, we do not have the right to judge the other person. what parliament needs to do is ve a debate that will bring out reasonable answers other than Leviticus 20:13.FYI,some christian nations around the world recognize gay rights and Zambia is not a special christian nation.Wake up to reality JackA@#

25. Finally we have somebody who is using his brain to analyze this issue. We are so myopic we don’t see the big picture. For as long as we don’t allow gays to come out we are placing our children and the vernables in harms way. How many of us know whether our children’s teacher’s are gay or not yet they spend 8 hours a day with our children. If they are open about their sexuality we can make informed decisions as to whom we allow to watch over our kids. Kudos to besa for this article and abash anti-gay myopic people.

    • Wachepa?!  am I missing something? so what if the person watching your kids is gay? homosexuality is not the same as peadophilia!! just like heterosexuality so

26. Just because people believe that something is moral or not it doesn`t mean that their belief is valid. History holds many examples of shared beliefs on what is “good” or “right” that we can now cleary see were detrimental to the well-being of various individuals and groups.The fact that a belief about morality is widely held or even shared does not give it validity.Jesus preached about love for one another.Why not just do that ?

27. You cannot control the circumstances or people around you, but you can always choose
    how you react to them. Much of what is difficult about difficult situations, is not the situation itself, but how you react to it.Have you ever made a situation worse by overreacting? and that is exactly what most Zambians are doing, Have you heard the saying “Energy Flows Where Attention Goes?” that’s whats happening right now, haven’t you all noticed how the cases of defilement and rape have increased 100% why? simple “Energy Flows Where Attention Goes? you are creating more off what you don’t want!!!1

28. If a gay wants to come near me, i will give him a man sized punch right on the nose. Nonsense!!! Ninga chipushin’ge ine!!

29. It would be interesting to find out who these homosexual’s in zambia are, is it my neigbour,my friend,my workmate,my maid,my former minister etc. Come out of the closet you chaps identify yourselves.

30. let them f+++ each other in the asses if they like! let them stay hidden in the minorities……..its shamefull, a disgrace to humanity…………………we as a nation cannot recognize and pass laws supporting boys with swollen asses

31. I think it’s interesting that some people are opposed to homosexuality on religious grounds.Is it not religion which is re
    sponsible for dozens of historical genocides and currently fuels numerous wars and terrorist organizations on all sides? Religion quite possibly the most destructive force in the history of the human race, and people have the nerve to use it as a justification to dislike homosexuality. Get your priorities straight!.

32. I think it’s interesting that some people are opposed to homosexuality on religious grounds.Is it not religion which is responsible
    for dozens of historical genocides and currently fuels numerous wars and terrorist organizations on all sides? Religion quite possibly the most destructive force in the history of the human race, and people have the nerve to use it as a justification to dislike homosexuality. Get your priorities straight.

33. Besa natural behavior is way forward for ZED. So called respect of rights for gays, defilers & gender abuses have no place here. Good night.

34. Whoever invited your article?

35. All those who have never seen or heard anything about homosexuality in animals have not heard or seen much and should be ashamed of parading their ignorance.

36. There are issues of poverty,unemployment,disease and someone travels all the way to Zambia to talk about gay rights?!!! Please tell him we have more important things to worry about.And these africans who live two days in the west come back home and say “gay rights”.Leave us to debate issues of real concern to our society. We want positive change.Not this Sodom that you want to impose on us.

37. Unless you have an absolutely perfect life, keep you OPINIONS to yourself, enjoy the common bond of humanity and happiness for once. This should not be a issueof political or religious beliefs but mutual happiness for other people and their saftey, get over yourselves for a moment you holy than though dush bags.

38. You people, if the goverment allows homosexuality, i forsee the economy booming. Don t you want a situation were a kwacha will drop to K2000 against the US $ or even below? think! hehehehe

39. It’s about time that those of us who are just a bit different start seeing the same respect as other persons with minor differences.

40. Gay ? Straight ? Who cares.

41. But it honestly doesn’t make sense for people to say homosexuality is a choice. How does one honestly choose to belong to the most hated society where you constantly have to hide you feelings and being because of shame? Let us not judge here people. This is consential sex between 2 adults and not with an animal or a child. As long as its done with respect for the other non-gay people and in private and don’t see why anybody should have a problem with it. Actually only people with serous sexual issues have problems with gay people

42. Whether we like it or not, Gays are here to stay they will still do what they do in their privacy. If they dont temper with our lives why bother??? Please do not judge others only the Good Lord will judge them on their judgement day so let them keep on sinning and face the wrath on that day. I feel being Gay is very un natural maybe we need scientisits to explore more on this issue let the gays come out so we can hear their story. we should not rush to castigate there is sure no smoke without fire

43. MWANSA BESA – Thank you for your refreshing viewpoint and intelligent review of the subject. In Zambia, people see everything through the moral looking-glass – the problem is they do that even before they have trully examined for themselves what is moral and what isn’t. Zambians must look at homosexuality intelligently and in an adult manner. As a country we have steadfastly progressed as a stable political democracy – and that is why now we have more socio-political issues being discussed than ever before in the life of our young country, people are free to express themselves. It is therefore an illogical conflict of principle that in such a democracy, a group of people (homosexuals) are literally being denied the right to exist. Nobody has the right to another’s human rights.

44. # 41 KELVIN – Fantastic question!

45. Mwansa is either and advocate of gay and lesbians or he is a practitioner himself.How can he fail to answer a question like”what is the right sexual orientation”?It is simply a simple matter of logic.It is a deviation of the mind when “like poles” attract.Only “opposite poles”attract.When a man gets sexually attracted by a fellow man or a woman by a fellow woman,then you have reprobate minds.It also means next you will be demanding to have sex with beasts/animals and you call it your way of life and a right.Where shall it all end?

    That is why mankind has always needed laws to regulate behavior bacause if left to your own
    devices,everything is right in your own eyes/mind/heart.What a society we would have.

    • You are a pathetic i.diot.Read between the lines the writer of this article is just asking for respect for people who are different from you holy ones.Judge not.Now go get a rope and hang your sorry a.ss.

    • Good point.

46. Mr Besa you are very foolish. How could you fail to answer simple questions in your paragraph 2? Surely, can a bolt and a bolt fasten? Or a nut and a nut can they fasten? Why did you, Besa, fail to answer the questions put to you?

    Look here, a cleft palate is a deformity and nobody can deny it not even you, Besa. But it can surgically be corrected. Maligned sexuallity alias gayism is a deformity and eforts must be made by gifted people help our brothers and sisters to avoid losing brains like Alan Turin and Fashanu unnecessarily. Gay people themselves will never accept their deformity but you know it, Besa, from the analogies given above about bolts and nuts that it cannot be denied that gayism is a deformity and it knows no colour, religion, intelligence or profession.

    • Mbo Sam You must be another pathetic i.diot.Read between the lines the writer of this article is just asking for respect for people who are different from you holy ones.Judge not.Why not keep your opinion to yourself ? Now go get a rope and hang your sorry a.s.s.

47. Mbo Sam You must be another pathetic i.diot.Read between the lines the writer of this article is just asking for respect for people who are different from you holy ones.Judge not.Why not keep your opinion to yourself ? Now go get a rope and hang your sorry a.ss.

    • You must be gay yourself.You seem to take it personally.

48. Homosexuality has always been there.We have two thousand years of experience with Christian practices to compare it to

    and 1300 years of Muslim practices, 4000 years of Jewish practices, 2000 + years of Hindu practices, 4000+ years of Zoroastrianism practices, 6000+ years of Egyptian theological practices, 4,400 years of Buddhist practices…So all of you using religion to answer it in whatever moral way you deem fit must be as lame as religion itself.

49. Im glad some people have a different understanding about homosexuality

50. Mwansa Besa, join #45 and #46 and move forward. Don’t hate gay people as it is not their fault to born that way. I have come accross parents agonising over their children being gay. I say it not necessary to cry over such a situation. The answer can be found much faster than a cancer solution if the clever people were not gay themselves and wanting to maintain status quo.

51. For once most bloggers have shown objectivity with their comments, no insults and attacking each other. Can we please keep it this way. Mwansa thanks for being objective too.

52. Love is an innate human emotion. Hatred is learned.

53. Smith, I accept your insults, but I still insist and hold tight that a bolt and a bolt cannot fasten neither can a nut and a nut. It is not my opinion but simple logic. You need help Smith. Don’t extend it to fighting for the rights of those who enjoy having sex with dogs, pigs, ducks and other animals I beg you.

    • a bolt and a bolt? a nut and a nut? what about if they hold like a man and a man? could it be acceptable? if they can’t hold, nobody can force them.

54. I will always celebrate love over hatred. It is so much harder to find.

55. Mbo Sam one man once said “opinions are like butt holes each one has one”.You are surely entitled to your opinion ,please don`t just let yours overide others.Each one to his own kind.Life is a puzzle that we all try to figure out.Just like you can`t figure out why a bolt will crave for another bolt.Good luck with your opinion and keep the love burning in what ever way you deem fit.God bless you holy brother.

56. I am content with the provisions of the Zambian law on gays. If we decide as a nation, to sit back and not uphold our laws and good values, then we are truly in support of those that are perverting and we are party to what they do.
    I wish to remind the writer when he refers to the Bible that when Jesus facilitated the unstoning and subsequently pardoned the prostitute, she was told not to do it again.

    • But remember, the USA (my country and pride – apparently not yours) has sovreign rights too.

      How about this. 1) Automatic refugee status for any Gay Zambian who wishes to go to the USA 2) Not increasing the number of Zambian visas, so that when Zambians living in the USA wish to bring family members will have to wait behind those that their nation has abused.

57. Very good article Mwansa Besa…some sense at last… a contrast to the homophobic comments and articles that have been spewing on Zambian websites and social network. Zambians are unable to debate this subject objectively, when you engage them into a debate its a case of one being either you are against homosexuality OR you (In support) being accused of being  gay. 
    As for politicians no one has the balls or courage to come out and champion basic human rights for fellow human beings only KK has come out in support of UN chief as one Wiseman once said “A politician thinks of the next election. A statesman, of the next generation.”

58. Like abortion, one can look at homosexuality through the many facets: Religion (depends the religion), traditional beliefs, scientificaly, morally, culturally, race, sex etc.

59. End of time… it has begun,N.W.O ”new world order”,, open your eyes people, open you spiritual eyes!

60. this is what happens when people decide to remove God out of the equation of existance. rules are seen as being evil or bad. a society wihtout rules and laws and commandments is the devils plan.

61. I’m hurt by some of the comments under this article. It’s just so sad to see so many people judging other people by whom they sleeps with. It’s just silly.The world and Zambia has changed so why not take your narrow-mindedness somewhere else. Good luck to all the people in both hetero and homosexual relationships. Love is rare. If you have it – cherish it.

62. It is unacceptable for Zambia to allow homosexuality if it is known as a christian nation. The Bible does not allow it and so shudn’t we.

63. Rubbish article, do you have to tolerate a paedophile because he or she has chosen to have sex  with minors? or a murderer because he chosen to kill people for a hobby?. This is encouraging chaos in a country where we have laws to guide us. The law says no homos and we should respect that.

    • Why not compare oranges with oranges and not with lemons ? That example does not only make you appear intellectually challenged but it also shows your inability to analyse issues rationaly.Guys like you disgusts me.You make the world look more sadder than it is.

    • Which country tolerates paedophilia??? 

    • Even a gay person can be prosecuted for pedophilia just like a straight person can. Look up the meaning of pedophilia—-it is a sexual act performed by an adult on a child (minor) who, for intents and purposes, can not legally concert to sexual intercourse—that is, gay or straight!

      At least if you compared rape to pedophilia since both are sexual crimes based on forced-sex, then you would sound a bit mature and grown up. Unfortunately your emotions are blinding you on this one brother!

64. # 62 Mk Why not compare oranges with oranges and not with lemons ? That example does not only make you appear intellectually challenged but it also shows your inability to analyse issues rationaly.Guys like you disgusts me.You make the world look more sadder than it really is.

65. It is amazing how some people reason and argue, with so much disrespect to logic and wisdom.
    Homosexuality is wrong because it is SIN, and should not be allowed in Zambia.
    Shcking to see some people argue that religion should not be used on the issue; well suppose all zambians were all non-christians. Homosexuality would still be wrong because it is jusk like other wrongs like adultery.
    Human rights tell you that if two people agree to do something and it does not affect anyone, then it is OK. From this point of view homosexuality can never be right, because it will always, just like adultery, affect someone.

66. Whoever wrote this article has a lot of courage.It is not easy these days to write something relating to gays without being accused of being one.We want more balanced articles like these.

67. Well written article Mwansa…it was refeshing to read through it. Unfortunately, this issue is very emotional to a lot of people because they consider it ultimate sin! I live in a society where gays and lesbians are my neighbours. I used to look down on them, but over time i have just realized that their sexual orientation has not effect on my life. for this reason, i do not care whether someone is gay/lesbian.

68. If you wife agrees with some man and the two decide to commit adultery, why are you as husband offended, when the two have agreed – why are you affected?
    This question is the same as, if your daughter or son or brother, or sister is involved in homosexuality why are you offended as parent or brother or etc??
    These two questions are the same – i.e. if it is justfiable for a husband to be offended with his adulterous wife by virtue of his relationship with the wife, then the father entitled to be offended by his homosexual son by virtue of his relationship with his son.
    Therefore, in the context of africa (and probably everywhere in the world) it is not possible to prove that there is no single person offended by an act of homosexuality committed by someone.

69. #67 Contd..
    This means that if a person commits adultery it is not impossible in court to prove that there is atleast one person offended ; the husband of course (who is the closet relation will be offended). Therefore the act is an infringement and an offence.
    The same, if a person commits homosexuality, it is not impossible in court to prove that there exists atleast one person offended; the father/mother or children or siblings etc (who are closet relatives). Once this is established, then according to law, it is an infringment and therefore an offence.
    Can anyone here tell me that if two people committed homosexual acts and were discovered, they would prove that no single person would be affected or offended?

70. I only hear people who are not Gay talk about these rights.The actual Gay people are not asking for these right.Can a Gay come out and i promise you will be dealt with.Elo if wafimona fi ma Gay,Fila ba e fyaungwa ungwa.That shows you that they are not Normal.

    • And you expect gays to come out with people like you still alive?!!!!!!

71. #68 Contd..
    If the husabands are entitled to be offended by their adulterous wives because of their relation, then parents and relatives are equally entiltled to be offended by their homosexual relative because of the relation they share.
    My conclusion is that even when you choose to be weaked and remove God in the picture, society still condemns the act of homosexuality in the same way, with the same effects as adultery.
    Therfore let us not talk like empty tins!!!!!!!!!

    • Your analysis is lame too.That example doesn`t belong in the reality but in the dream and delirium world.A father or mother doesn`t owe anything to his grown up son who happens to make his own decisions.Whether he is offended or not it doesn`t make any difference because the father just like his son has his own life to live.Each person will face his maker alone…a reason enough not to live another persons life.Being true to oneself is the most important.

72. @62

    So which country tolerates paedophilia??  

73. Once again “good Christians” showing their true feelings of intolerance…just as they believe Christ told them to. How sad…these are the people that need prayers.

74. No normal Christian will encourage people to sin and then pray for them.

    In the same way no any normal person will encourage people to do the very things he is lobbying against.
    To me that sounds like a person who does not no where he is going, or whether he is going or coming or sitted.

75. Is anyone pa zed calling for gay rights? anyone anyone ???? Honestly they are much better things to concentrate on like maybe building more universities…O increasing nurses salaries etc. The government need to put this issue to bed. Its turning out to be a PR disaster. But am inclined to agree with the article especially on the issue of two consenting adults. the fact is that goes on in the bedroom next door is non my business. People need to be realistic these things happen everyday. Just because we dont here about them does not they dont exist. We need to have a grown up debate but now is not the time. The country faces a number of challenges perhaps we should concentrate on those.

    • I agree with you on that BUT don’t you go crawling to the donors a bowl inhand for pleading for extra funding to build that university when they are getting their taxpayer’s dollars who guess what? a minority happen to be gay.

76. I never bought into the “Zambia is a Christian Nation” crap

    Stop chopping your neighbor’s wife/husband
    Stop chopping under age girls
    Stop stealing public funds
    Stop practicing witchcraft
    Stop drinking like there is no tomorrow
    ………..

    Then you can make an argument why a particular sin should not be tolerated. Where are you when all these other commandments are broken? Sometimes you are so insecure with your sexuality that you want to convince rest of us otherwise.

77. Just like no normal society would say let us put in our constitution that stealing is OK.
    But let us pray for the theives to stop stealing.
    That would be total brain/action mismatch.
    Even Jesus did not condemn the woman caught in adultery; instead he forgave her sin and told her,
    “GO SIN NO MORE!!!”
    Jesus did not say because I love you I will embrace you, and you have the right to continue sinning I will still love you NO!!!!!
    “STOP IT, GO SIN NO MORE”
    That is christianity, not telling people, “you are free to sin, it is allowed, but I will be praying for you while you sin, its okay!!” – WHERE does that thinking come from, if at all it is called ‘thinking’??????

78. Why is it that most bloggers with USA and European flags are in the support? Moral values in developed countries are down with a pretense of freedom. This is our freedom as Christians as well to denie. Wait for another 50 years for you to propose this sin. Just let the western world enjoy it because its their brain child.

    • mwebo ba nshumfwa we r zambians -personally mune iv always had a broad mind-the issue is not wether we condone the practice its about tolerance- and good governance principles of equity-Not every zambian is christian or shud aspire to be-i dont understand homosexuality-but i will not impose my beliefs on someone or interfere with their safety-thats tolerance my dear-infringing on sum1s freedom is not democracy and is not christian at all!so wether those of us with european flags -seem immoral becos of having an open mind that goes against ur christian beliefs let it be so it!the arguement about gay rights shud not be argued from a religius point of view-we r a democracy first-religion and state shud be separated!

79. Zambians need food and development mr un secretary general.. Comfine homosexuality to where you live. We are Christians and don’t need your money with satanic conditions sir.The majority wins I don’t understand why the minority gay/lesbians rights should be an important issue. Why don’t you stop the war in Syria instead of advocating for gay rights. God will surely punish you for this.

80. #74 Oranje91,
    The same bible that says we should not commit homosexuality also says no adultery, or fornication. You ask why zambians are not discussing these other sins but only too much talk about homosexuality.
    I hope you know that all zambians are agreed that adultery, defilement and fornication are bad and the constitution condemns them and acts are always condemned. And no one has suggested that we start acknowledging defilers’, adulterous’ and fornicators’ rights – So where should the argument arise from about these??
    The reason why homosexuality is being talked about is that someone has suggested that we change what we have agreed about it and accept it a a right!! If you cant hear what I have said you are impossible.

81. This one seemingly insignificant topic is unnerving the religious, thrilling the gay community, torturing the closeted, infuriating the homophobic and causing a lot of laughter among well adjusted heterosexuals.This world needs much less hate and much more love. I don’t care where the love comes from. We need much, much more of it.

82. Love of Jesus is what is needed.
    It says: “You have been found in adultery? I dont condemn you BUT Stop it, go sin no more”
    There is a difference between love and foolishness – the latter says, “I love my child so much that even when he does wrong I wong stop him because he will feel bad”.
    O dear, you just need to be alive, you dont need to be religious, or a christian to know what I have stated.
    the basic qualification for this is simply to be a human being, no need to pass thru a lecture room.

83. @wise people,
    You are making all sorts of disjointed arguments…
    1)your claim that an adulterous act/relationship will “offend” someone is true but what you fail to realise is adultery is morally & socially reprehensible but NOT ILLEGAL!!Correct if I am wrong,no Zambian has been imprisoned (in Zambia) for cheating on his/her partner where the sexual act or affair was between two CONSENTING ADULTS!

84. #80 Munalian,

    I like your argument, but you seem to understand law and punishment to be ‘imprisonment’.
    Well, I can advise that not all convictions and punishments mean imprisonment.
    Adultery is an offence and punishable. Your question should be “what punishment”?
    An adulterous person is an offender by law and when convicted, is meant to pay the offended.
    I am getting shocked if you are a zambian living in Zambia and do not know this. Anyway, there is always the first time, it is good u asked this question – now you know.

85. The more I read the hateful, well, actually, WELL beyond hateful and bordering on psychotic comments from various heterosexuals here it occurs to me that the ‘intrinsically disordered’ sexual orientation is not the group society has labeled as such but rather is the group doing the labeling all along.

    • Good point Arian

86. I realise that for some people contributing to this discussion is a matter of a “hobby”.
    It is hard to see their clear input or objectivity.
    For some it is to pass time and not to give any helpful and constructive message.
    For others, it is to defend “wrong” whatever it takes, at all costs.

87. # 83 wise people welcome to the real world.Everything calls for debate.No wonder some sections of the civil society have called for this issue to be discussed in parliament.Some people here might appear to defend coz to them a good debate is as good as a good solution.Lets be rational and realistic in the way we handle some of these matters.

88. Sorry meant # 86

89. @wise people,
    I haven’t been to Zed for a decade so do forgive if my comments aren’t in tune with the current legal status.

    Having said that,I am inclined to think that the restitution you are referring to comes in place if/when the victim of a cheating spouse (usually the wife) seeks alimony in the divorce settlement -usually associated with child maintenance too!!

    On the other hand,someone who isn’t married and has no common assets and children with a partner will not suffer any kind of punishment if/when cheating happens!! If there is a law that punishes cheaters then the whole country will be made up of criminals!!

    • Bwana, even if you have been away from Zambia for decade, this is law probably everywhere else in the world. Adultry is and has always been between married people. At least one or both persons in a legally recognized marrital union has to cheat for it to be termed adultery. Cheating between unmarried people is called fornication—Jesus Christ! In fact, in certain countries even fornication is a crime!!

90. It beggars belief that a person can just wake up one morning, inspite of all the hatred that they may face, decide to be sexually attracted to the same sex individuals. Is it possible to just turn on a switch to be gay or not to be gay? In me, there is not the slightest sexual attraction to a fellow BLOKE. If someone says that they are so affected, surely, who am I to condemn them? I may say that it is morally wrong yes, but so is heterosexual fornication, adultery, abortion, etc. Polygamy is outlawed in some societies but it is not morally wrong. Ah. Na naka ine.

91. # 87 Smith,

    I agree with you totally, debate must be allowed.
    People will debate based on their convictions and beliefs.
    Therefore, it is wrong to tell someone not to use his religious beliefs to argue his case. If you stop people from using their religious beliefs to argue their case you are stopping them from expressing their views and beliefs.
    That is as good as defending your view which you dont want to be challenged. A drunkard who has squandered his salary will stop the wife fron aksing any questions because he knows the wrong he is in and wants to defend it by letting others shut up.
    This is why I say, “some people wnat to defend their wrong”.

92. #89 Munalian, ther is what is called case of adultery punishable in its own right.
    And also may be accompanied by what is know as marriage interference, equally punishable.

93. @wise people,
    You can’t compare homosexuality and paedophilia,theft and rape because these crimes involve one (or more) inflicting their will forcefully on others!! A homosexual act/relationship is private business between two CONSENTING ADULTS!!

    That act/relationship might offend some people,eg Christians,but that’s their problem,pray for the homosexuals if you want to but don’t condemn them since you too are a sinner!

    Therefore,your argument that the govt should implement “Christian values” is null and void coz NOT ALL Zambians are Christians!!the govt & society should protect minorities because that’s how a democratic notation functions!!

94. Wise people i would rather you use your brain to analyze issues.Religion and beliefs have killed too many people in this world.Time we used our rational minds and not story book beliefs.

95. I think there is a difference between, recognising gay rights and discrimination against gays.. I do not care what too concerning adults do in the confinements of their bedroom. In our society there are some people who for instance think that oral sex between a man and a woman is wrong and not natural and is ungodly as does not serve for procreation. Does than mean oral sex is a crime and should be so stated in our constitution especially considering that Zambia is a Christian nation? I don’t think so. Another scenario is lesbian sex as seen in the eyes of straight men. I stand to be corrected but I think a quite a number of us have watched lesbian porn and quite enjoyed it but we the same men cant stand the thought of gay porn. Is that not hypocritical? 

96. Smith,
    While I agree with you that religion (Islam,Christianity,Hinduism etc) have caused so many wars and havoc,you can’t stop “wise people” from using his religious convictions to argue his case!!

    Wise people,
    While the majority of Zambians are Christians,well…go to church on Sundays anyway,Zambia is SECULAR republic with a clear separation between church and state!! Our laws and constitution are enacted from the “social contract” between the governed & governors and NOT from the Bible!!! Politicians might take Christian inspirations but can’t discriminate non Christians since we have (had) Sikhs and Hindus in parliament & govt!!

97. The problem with this debate is that it is “top-down” rather than a grass root movement!! We are seeing our political elites following the dictut of the UN, Mrs Clinton,Cameron etc instead of answering the most urgent concerns (closed universities,lack of drugs in hospitals etc) that affect Zambian folks!!

    While I support the decriminalization of homosexuality,it is scandalous we are spending so much time debating this issue instead of debating how to provide electricity,upgrade ohe infrastructure (roads,schools,affordable housing etc),increase non-copper export etc!!!

98. Munalian i am not stopping him as such.I am just trying to tell him that he shouldn`t use his beliefs as a scale to measure others.He should instead use his beliefs to control his personal life just like i use my Buddhist faith to control mine.

99. @97 Munalian

    Why do you think those politicans are asking you to recognise gay rights in the first place? That money the send to finance those “urgent concerns of yours” is sourced from their tax payers minority who happen to be gay…would you be happy to send money you have sweated for to someone who wouldn’t recognise your basic rights..eh??

100. Smith,
     Gotcha ya…I like your way of looking at things!! I just don’t get why the so-called Christians are vitriolic towards homosexuals when Jesus recommended tolerance!!

101. jay jay,
     Uhmmm…dunno where you are coming from with that comment but…
     1)haven’t seen or read about a single LGBT organization in front of the Number 10,UN building or State Dept demanding that “homosexual decriminalization be part of foreign aid”!! If you have eevidence to the contrary then please provide it!!

     2)if we are to talk of “aid money” then here is my take:
     * most of it goes towards admin costs,exalted salaries and dictators’ swiss accounts!!the west uses “aid money” to maintain & propagate its influence!! Nol

     *Zambia can return the “aid money” cheques,develop its economy and therefore cease (like Brazil,China etc) to the tunes of UK,US,UN etc

102. mwansa besa this is truly great analysis. Zambia and indeed Africa is losing this battle for sure. I thought christians were meant to love ALL even sinners!!! It just shows you that majority of christian zambians are actually devils. Since zambia was declared a christian nation (by a thief, adulterer, wife grabber) the country has plummeted into moral decay!!! Young men raping their own grand-mothers, adultery being committed very publicly, men defiling babies and young children, married pastors impregnanting ushers mu church! So how the hell are you going to defend this christian nation crap?

103. Commandment No. 7 states: “You shall not commit adultery” while the 10th one says: “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s.”. Now, it is as a result of Zambians’ pathological failure to adhere to these two commandments that we today have a catastrophic AIDS pandemic. And yet this most promiscuos lot claims the lord forbids copulation between same sexes but does not see wrong with disobeying him when it comes to fornication and adultery? Your double standards and “sansamcation” treachery stink.

104. Yambayamba,
     Dunno if you are referring to me specifically…but…adultery is not a crime anywhere in Europe & US,it is however grounds for divorce!!the idea that someone can be punished for “marriage interference” is in my view ridiculous coz the marriage interloper may have been seduced by the married person…how you prove that in court is something else!!

     Muslim countries (Saudi Arabia specifically) are the ones with archaic laws that punish “fornication”!! Remember that while you sex might be sacrosanct to you,it is just business for others…that’s why California,Nevada,Amsterdam etc have legalized prostitution and/or pornography!!!

105. @ Air Time Sakala above read the Bible entirely. Don’t only throw out snippets, the bible says all that God created is good, man is the one that invents warped ideas in his brain read Isaiah. Chakubaba that us the golden people have denied this evil vice. VIVA GOD, VIVA JESUS, VIVA Zambian government for stating were you stand against this vice today. Abash weak black men with no back bone and inferiority complexes.

106. Mwanawakwitu it is uncompromising religious fanatics like you that makes life look unbearable for a sober and level headed person like me.Use that bible to improve both your circumstances and personal standing with your God.Don`t hind behind that 2000 year old book to look down upon others.Not everyone is christian and that will never happen.Buddha bless you.

107. It is a great moment for us as Africans standing up as a unified front and refusing this nonsense. They preach evil to our land, HOMOSEXUALITY in all definitions is GENOCIDE, but thank God only a few dumb people of the adamic skin are veiled and think this nonsense is truth just because a white man said so. Ubututu please let’s talk about building hydro electric power stations and crop diversification, a place for Africa on the UN security council.

108. I’ve always known I was different. Due to Zambian society, culture & religion, I tried to hide it. As a result I ended up in one disastrous relationship after another with men. Seeing all the hatred on this page now I see the near impossibility of being free to be in love. After a long hard battle, I was finally able to reconcile my sexuality with my spirituality. I can’t say that I will definitely enter the kingdom of God; neither can any other human being. After all Jesus said it would be easier for a horse to enter the eye of a needle than for one to enter heaven. I think part of the reason is; just when u think u r justified in judging others, God’s compassion begs to differ. I know 2 things for sure; God has been good to me & only God can judge me.

109. @ Smith above if it’s for Jesus and my people yes call me overzealous. I am not perfect but my brain is developed well enough to know Spinchter muscles were designed to excrete waste. The push feacal matter outwards, 5th gread biology or environmental science. This is biology I am not cursing here. The wonderful Vagina was designed to receive the penis when a male and female in the rightful situation are intimate. It has sensory nerves that are stimulated to produce lubrication for copulation and orgasmic climaxes. It cusps the male organ like a lock and key, negative and positive poles; laughter and crying. Bread and butter, East and West, north and South. Need I say more? This debate ends here.

110. MATHEW 19:24

     And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

     @ ZAMBIAN IN DISTRESS ABOVE ME. That is the correct reading of the verse, the one you wrote is a misquoting my dear. You can be loved by a real man. A lot of women turned lesbian after mistreatment from men, but real men that will love you treat you right, listen then watch Miami heat play are there just be patient. For men turning gay that’s another Greek, roman issue I will let people research for themselves.

     • Thank you for the correction and i apologize for the misquote. But here is a correction for you: I did not turn lesbian due to ill treatment from men…I was already a lesbian before i even started dating men. I was unhappy in relationships because i was forcing myself to be something i’m not…and I refuse to do that to myself any longer. Now i prefer to live by the principle, ‘love one another’ & ‘do not judge lest you yourself be judged’ (I’m sure i have not misquoted this time :) )

111. Mwanawakwitu,
     Christianity was recognized as official religion of the Roman Empire in 330AD,after it reached Rome from Judea…meanwhile it’s practitioners were persecuted for 300 yrs…
     The Europeans took to the new world from the 1500s and reached Africa in the early 1800…
     Meanwhile,homosexuality has existed since the dawn of civilization;documented in the kama sutra (written in 400BC),seen on Egyptian hieroglyphs from as far as 2000yrs before the Bible was compiled…
     So…tell us…if those who have had Christianity for over 1700yrs can tolerate the few homosexuals among them,why can’t Africans who have been Christians for barely 170 yrs be tolerant???

112. Nice article indeed

113. I am proud of you Mwansa and I’m so happy to find people like you who are willing to face the hate to stand up for fellow humans. Keep up the good fight.

114. Gays and Lesbians should just move to another planet, end of story. They make me sick just to hear about them fags.

115. Statistically, one out of every ten persons are either lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender. Then there are those who are born inter-sex (neither 100% male or female). So look around you, homophobic persons, you are surrounded by people who must suppress who they are in order to stay alive. Be sure that many of the loudest accusers are often the very ones who are having the suppress the most! Do you come from a large family with a dozen kids? Or are you the parent of as many? Guess what, at least one of them is LGBT. Do you want him or her thrown in jail for something they did not choose to for themselves? Religion has nothing to do with this, it is simply the diversity God has allowed for in human sexuality. Embrace it but do not use it to oppress or violate others—that IS sin.

116. @ Munalian we were civilized before anybody else in Africa. Israel is only walking distance from Egypt please! Who taught Moses how to divide Israel into their governance system? Persians invaded Africa in 629 AD. who do you think lived in Egypt and north Africa before them? Romans wanted to rule the world through religion, we already knew Jehovah before the Europeans so your basis of twisted European history that used to be smothered on our golden continent won’t work any more. Shaking my head at thinking we couldn’t cross the straits to Israel and the middle east way back when.

117. Shocking how one’s refuse disposal point can be another person’s pleasure point. The women choose not to have a real thing and go for an item which is not even close to a replica or is it imitation. Dogs don’t give it a thought. Even pigs don’t do it. Gay or whatever name you are called open your eyes.You need help.

118. I am at a loss for words as we as a nation continue to display our ignorance in public domains!!! but then again, we are Zambians and hypocrisy, bigotry and being two faced are our unique identifiers! sexual preferences between two consenting ADULTS should not be subjected  to a majority vote!! Rights are rights as enshrined in the bill of rights! The rights of a minority should not be withheld at the whims of the majority bearing in mind that the smallest minority is the minority. Your rights end where mine begin and vice versa!!

119. Iwe Mwansa, there’s no privacy in the eyes of Jehovah God. That’s why he created a male and female among all living things including trees, plants, insects, animals, bugs, etc. Since when have you seen a bird, animal or snake go after a kind of the same sex. Sodom and Gomorah were destroyed because human beings opted to do the wrong. Anyone however there’s freedom of expression, is damned on this one. How I wish the old ways of punishment would apply now for we have taken the creator of every living entity for granted. I pray your wife is not even privy to this discussion. This is not freedom of expression. This is an abomination and a sin as far as God the creator is concerned for he created us this way for a reason.
      

120. My opinion… whether you gay or straight. sex with women is the best …not that i ve had sex with a man but … i know that a woman perky boobs and ass cannot be replaced by anything else

121. logicaly it just doesnt work well.
     Socially not acceptable (even tho others have made carrers rying to defend it in the name of human rights) Biblically (Koran) not acceptable,What are these father f&*^kers are trying to do. whether in Zambia or the US. Even my 4yr old son knows that kissing Daddy is yuk. He says i cant kiss a boy….. I must also mention that our DSTV movies and comedies are now in the habit of bring programmes that tend to make these things look normal. this is what the western world wants us to think. Call me homophorbic or whatever i dont care. i work with one actually two, they behave weird like they want to be women.

122. Most so called homosexuals in Zambia just do it for money, not that they feel anything for their fellow men.  It’s just like prostitution, most of those doing this are not happy doing it, they do it for money.  Whether we believe it or not, like it or not, homosexuality is just as much a sin as prostitution.  When Jesus forgave that prostitute he added “…do not sin again”.  Meaning she should not continue prostituting because it is sin.

     • u r so stupid hater and u will kill yo son bcoz if u do kill us u will rotte in jail *****s am gay and am proudly zedian and am coming to marry in zed hung if u wish

123. The act is so shamefull, even they (those who practice it) feel emmbarresed to come out in the open…that is NOT EVEN animal behaviour.. the other day some gay chap was trying ti justify it saying yje do it for pleasure. Fu*&^k that.

124. Gay rights with who(Gay right nabanani) YOU come out in the open you will see what wiil happen to you! you hide from me as much as you can or else if i discover i just burn yu to ashes(ukaponoka). Pipo let us not tolerate or spare these fools.If GAY zambia is not the right place for you,stupit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!???????????

125. Ma rubbish Mwansa!

126. #93 Munalian,
     Yes I agree, homosexuality is between two people but it also affects other people.
     One does not need to wait until his son or daughter is involved in homosexuality to know that

127. Mwanawakwitu,
     The history of north Africa is very different from that of sub-sahara by virtue of virtue of various “cross pollination”across millennia:Phoenicians settling in modern day Tunisia,ancient Egyptians occupying the Nile delta & Arab peninsula,Hellenic invasions of Alexander the great,Jewish migrations,roman conquest and later rise of Islam…
     On the other hand,sub-sahara had little contact with outside world before Arab traders and European adventurers came along in!!!

     In any case,irrespective of your history teacher,Christianity reached sub-sahara from the 1800s…so once again,why not be tolerant of the homos among us since others who have been Christians for longer can do it??

128. Wise people,
     I am affected (and sometimes offended) by women in mini skirts,drunkards stumbling on my streets,sugar daddies going out with girls younger than their daughters….does this mean I should deprive these people of their right to do as they please??
     The benefits of living in an open & democratic society is we are ALL FREE to pursue our goals provided we don’t harm anyone else!! The fact is two homos sharing your bed doesn’t impinge your way of life!!!
     forget about your daughter coming home with her lesbian lover…what if she brings a boy you don’t like??will you scold her till she changes her mind?what if she runs away with him just to piss you off??

129. Correction:should “two homos sharing THEIR bed […]”

130. You know Mwansa I actually agree with your article. As a straight male, I am repulsed by the thought of kissing another guy. But I am also capable of rising above my personal desires, and recognizing that everybody has the right to pursue their own happiness, and nobody should be persecuted for it. I rejoice in people having the right to be who they are.

131. Do gay people realise that if their parents were gay? They would have been squized 9 months in scrotum rather than enjoy the comfort of their mothers the womb?:o:o:o:o

132. what about the rghts gay dogs and pigs

133. Maybe Jesus if that woman about to be stoned was lesbian he could have had said “Chitobeni icho amabwe guys…ine nachilamona kwati chitobesha ku mimbulu kanshi awe” then the woman could have been like “ba yesu please” just for umwana wa mulungu to answer back ati “tiye uko iwe”.

134. When i say gays are disgusting. That is my opinion. Am I not entitled to my opinion?

135. Smith, you can carry on being gay if you were born like that but remember that is a deformity. A bolt and nut can fasten. A bolt and a bolt cannot fasten and cannot even crave for one another neither can nuts.

     Get help Smith. It is already here if you really want it.

     • You have your God and i have mine.Don`t impose your god and your belief on me.I have my own cross to carry.

136. # 128 Munalian,
     You are affected by all these things – women in mini skirts,drunkards stumbling on my streets,sugar daddies going out with girls younger than their daughters.
     You are affected by these because, just like me, you are a normal human being.
     But in tryig to let these people free to choose what they want are we now gona put in our constitution and say;
     1) Women shall have the right to wear minis
     2) Old men shall be free to get little children.
     3) Citizens shall be free to get drunk.
     4) Prostitutes shall be free to do prostitution, and worse
     5) thieves shall be free to steal.
     Is that how you want you constitution to look like????

137. #131 NKANI YAMU KACHASU,
     I do not subscribe to the language and som of the words you have used but I agree with you view from which I ask one paraphrased question:
     If the parents to every homosexual in the world was homosexual would these so-called homosexuals exist today and enjoy the fundamental ‘Right to Life’???????????

138. All the best to gays and lesbians and am so happy for them……life is short……good to be whoever you wanna be.

139. The only vice that cannot be forgiven is hypocrisy. The repentance of a hypocrite is itself hypocrisy.

140. Very interesting to see all these comments from Zambians! Now it makes sense why Zambia is so poor! Ignorance!
     Homosexuality is not going anywhere! Anyone who has a problem with that may go hang themselves with wet toilet paper!

141. Most of you who are against gay people to have rights have never experienced segregation, its not pretty and it makes you feel dead. Stop tramping on the rights of minority groups and grow up. you phonies!!!!!

142. being gay or Lesbian is Sin in the eyes of God, God had a reason to create a Man then later he created a women, he got a rib from a man that;s were a woman comes from, Lets respect God. As far as I know even the UN SG his married to a woman not a man, called dad by his children whom he has with his wife who is a women, lets respect and embrace Christianity. Let also respect our traditions not just because pipo in US practice gay or Lesbian then you also think is right; its very wrong. stand up and condemn this practise. I am proud to be a Woman and also proud to be married to a Man

143. HEY Guys my sexual orientation in Doggy and Goaty, please Ban Ki Moon don’t forget us. our rights to openly express our natural sexual orientations.
     ONE Z ONE NATION:)>-

144. Rizzo! Agreed procreation requires the two sexes. However, it must be said that there are two creatures where sex is used as recreation and that is humans and the great apes particularly the Chimpanzee. Now we read that maybe Dolphins also use sex for recreation, though yet to be convinced. In other words if this is the case that is where you have this possibility of Gay and Lesbian tendencies in humans etc. Humans do not use sex just for procreation. In most other animals, females get to heat and the males respond by having sex to create the new generation. I think the problem here is that there is a tendency for the gay and Lesbian community to try and convince the rest of us that there is nothing wrong and to really shove it in our faces. Be more discreet!

145. Nice post. I used to be checking continuously this blog and I’m impressed! Very helpful information particularly the remaining section :) I deal with such information much. I used to be seeking this certain information for a long time. Thanks and best of luck.

Comments are closed.