Zambia Railways Chief Executive Officer, Professor Clive Chirwa’s plans to construct an underground rail line for passenger trains in Lusaka to decongest traffic in the City has received support from the Engineering Institute of Zambia (EIZ) President saying that it was technically possible to create an underground rail line in Lusaka as suggested.
Institute President Bernard Chiwala told ZNBC that Zambia has the knowledge, experience and expertise in creating and managing underground tunnels especially on the Copperbelt.
The EIZ president said that Engineers from the Copperbelt can be engaged to help create a tunnel in Lusaka where rail line can pass.
Last week Prof Chirwa unveiled designs to revamp the railway sector and turn it into a 21st century railway system that was modern and profitable.
Professor Chirwa said 90 percent of the railway stations in the country were beyond repair and there was therefore need to sink the railway station underground particularly in Lusaka adding that this would go a long way in improving the outlook of the sector.
He said this at a public discussion hosted by the Engineering Institution of Zambia (EIZ) where he presented new architectural designs and a computer generated simulation on the new look railway system.
Explaining the simulations of the model, Prof. Chirwa said ZRL would establish electric powered trains to run on the rail track that will be rehabilitated.
He said having electric trains would be cheaper than using coal to move the machines.
He explained that the company was already considering three ways of doing it.
Prof. Chirwa said the first way would be to have a solar panel while the second one is to generate power from Lusemfwa and the third option was partnership with ZESCO whom he said had pledged to support the reconstruction.
He further highlighted nine modules to categorise development of the second 921 kilometre railway line that will be built from Chingola to Livingstone at a cost of US$120 million.
The modules have about 100 kilometres each and they include Mayoba 105km, Choma 112km, Monze 101km, Naluama 101km, Chisamba 109km, Luanshima 103km, Kafulafuta 104 km, Mabote 94 km, and Chingola 92 km.
He stated that ZRL’s core business model would be to build partnerships with businesses that are centered on five divisions namely.
The divisions are freight, passenger, inter-mine, engineering design and infrastructure commercial.
Prof. Chirwa said these five areas will give ZRL a platform to become not only the country’s major employer with over 10, 000 jobs and also make it one of the biggest contributors to the national economy.
Brilliant thinking. If only we had also 5 ministers thinking we can make a big leap in no time.
Man we do not need ministers to think this way but a president. If a president thought this way, we would be seen development. Then he won’t be able to offer top jobs to people like nsanda,
Did anyone tell Sata that we had greatest moments with Cliver Chirwa when he was away? Life for Zambians was so exciting.
I can’t wait to see Sata go again for reflections. I hope he will fire his Injustice Minister Kabimba.
As soon as you are ready to float shares of ZRL at LuSE, kindly let me know and I will be ready to invest … you are the best. Your plans are viable and I can’t wait to see you succeed, Clive.
Last time i was at ‘intercity’ bus terminus I couldn’t help but feel sorry for my people…it looked poor and dirty. I can only imagine an underground train station in Lusaka! When/if such a facility is built there will be need to maintain it with up-most professionalism…its a huge project but doable!
We don’t mind the construction of world class hospitals and other health facilities, but what you must realize is that Hospitals or clinics usually consume more than they produce. if you bring in world class health equipment, how are you going to maintain them? Half the people or even more in this country can’t afford those services to start with. We need to create jobs, industries e.g. ZRL that will generate enough revenue to pay tax so that government can use that tax to acquire these hospitals and provide them to the people for free..
With all the flooding in lusaka, this is just a catastrophe in the making.Chirwa will just end up making an underground river.
This is only possible in chirwa’s dreams.The PF HOOLIGAN cabinet will shoot it down.Oh I forgot, there are no cabinet meetings.What a sorry country.
Excellent
Republican Guard,great thinking not the narrow mindedness other’s are showing. God bless you Prof. Chirwa,praying and cheering for you.
Priorities mwebantu. Do you want to spend $3bn building an underground train or rather build world class hospitals to save lives. Go to UTH and see what the situation is…..Let the people use their corollas for now and stop ministers from going to Milton park for treatment
Iwe makaka iwe, you must be Judas Iscariot. You will always have the poor and sick people among you no matter what world class hospital you build. Get out of the way PF government is at work and wants to work to change the face of Zambia.
Why didn’t your MMD with its tandem of thieves build hospitals? You were 20 yrs in power. besides , who told you that because of Prof Chirwa projects everything will come to a stand still. Don’t comment if you have nothing to say.
This is not about MMD or PF, people are dying of curable diseases all over Zambia. Human resource is the biggest asset a country can have. Let’s save lives. Wait until you relatives die of a headache or a cold that’s when you will wake up . When was the last time you were in Zambia? visit UTH and see for yourself
Good remark. If ur referring to the hospital in Johannesburg, it is Milpark not Miltonpark
That’s a separate Ministry i.diot!
@ Kapoli, same country, same GRZ budget.
Before you accuse someone else, better is to think yourself (….if you can?).
This is a very good observation. Is an underground station a priority? What is an underground station for when you cannot even look after the current stations and the so called intercity bus terminus is a total mess? Misplaced priorities are the order of the day in Zambia.
If well educated people like Chirwa and the engineering institute can think like that about ZRL then their is no hope for our country. Instead of discussing ways to transform engineering schools in Zambia so graduates can meaningfully contrubute to the economy of Zambia thru inventions and innovations, they are talking about rubbish stuff. What a shame!
Useless Boma: Your comment should go to the CEO of UTH and not the CEO of ZRL. These are two different entities with different budgets and development plans. If UTH CEO does not see the need for good Hospitals, he/she should be fired and you can not stop CEO of ZRL from developing his priority plans based on the failures of UTH. Each institution should have and develop its own priorities and that is the only way we can develop. You don’t cancel one project in a different sector for the sake of another project in another sector. You find resources to develop every priority project in every sector of the economy if you want to develop as a nation. Your thinking is very limited for national develop to happen.
Hey, i think the minister of health should also come up with a plan. Sata his ministers, and people running health institution should think like Clive Chirwa. Mwanawasa thought differently and that is how most new hospitals were built during his error. The economic should not be stagnant because of lack of capacity and good planning from others.
So until we have world class hospitals we will not do anything else? Come on guys!
Mwebantu as your name says look at how the same hospitals will be sustained without income.The first thing you are supposed to look at how to sustain then implement.In as much as we would all want to critiscise the government i think on this one they deserve a hand because when you look at the level of traffic in lusaka i think no one can say its ok.So lets just support Proffesor Chirwa with his plans and his the best man for the job and i think on this one his execellency did the best for Zambia and he deserves a hand.BWANSA PRESIDENT ON THIS YOU DESERVE MY HIGH FIVE GOD KEEP YOU WELL AND MAY WE HAVE THE SAME PEOPLE IN STRATEGIC POSITIONS IN ZAMBIA
Division of work, a better railway system will help left the pressure off the already very busy bad roads and that in turn will help reduce road accidents and that will buy the hospitals the needed time to work on improving infrastructure and help reduce pressure on the staff to help them provide better service to the public and then you whatever your profession will also look to putting your services to good use physically not verbally….. It’s about time we as zedians started thinking positive, how can we contribute to my colleagues inputs or your own inputs…..remember, it’s One Zambia One Nation
We do not need to build massive hospitals, we need to put in measures to prevent people from getting sick. Rember that simple primary school rule: Prevention is better than cure. Do you remember that sir?
OOkey!! Subways?.. highways first pls. Is this another scheme were you fill up your pockets. while the project drags on for ever.
Derigo, I agree with you
The idea of the subway is a brilliant one. But lets stop momentarily and think about priorities. I totally support the reconstruction of the railway system making it a double line. This will remove all the abnormal cargo currently being moved on the roads onto the railways thereby help decongest the highways
Before we let the subway idea choke our minds, we have to work on our road network. Whats wrong in having all our major roads from Chililabombwe to Livingstone and all towns in between turned into dual carriage ways… including all roads linking provincial HQs? This will make our roads safer, efficient. Have you ever seen any congestion on the Kitwe-Ndola dual carriage?
For now, roads are a priority over the subway system
@Derigo & Nshi..: Was Prof Chirwa talking about a subway system or simply an underground rail station in Lusaka?
I think you guys misunderstood what he said. All he plans to do is move the Lusaka train station underground and build a by-passes and interchange where the current station is. This he thinks will beautify (and I agree) the current location of the train station. At least this is my understanding of what he said—and NOT building a subway system as we know it!!!!
Yamba yamba i think i also need to ask the same thing to the two because they are talking about things outside the topic because i have seen people talking about roads and yet the man is bringing a vision for the nation in line with his job in the railway system.We are not talking about the minister of transport and comunication but the CEO of Railway systems of Zambia and who is selling his vision to Zambia aas a manager so lets critisice his vision and not roads.For roads let RDA manager bring us to light what they want to do with roads
@Derigo… A few Zambians like you will never prosper because of negative thinking. Be exposed and the next time you will not be thinking like you are currently thinking. A nation develops from positive developmental project aspects and not deeming one project less important than the other. Remember a project creates employment and lessen dependance on family responsibilities of one individual.
You see, that right there is what we calling negative thinking, so your positive thinking would be to make a suggestion as how bust to prevent anyone in the height positions, fill their pockets, as you put it. Question! How would you feel if you was appointed or got a high position post in an organisation and then all you hear is people saying you just wanna fill your pockets?
We are not saying it’s not possible.what we are asking is the source of the finance looking at the time frame the proffessor gave himself.3years and again mega projects like these are not only mooted and poneered by one single mind and presented o the nation,it should a collection of interlectuals from different fields and qualificaions.lets not portray such kind of projects likethey are as simple as building a pit latrine
he did not give himself 3yrs, its in phases the whole programe will take 5-6 yrs, read his lecture **** dont jst coment from without
What collection of intellectuals, we do not need theorists anymore, we need action oriented people not people who will be getting huge allowances for just talking.
how can we fail to have underground tunnels when we re a copper producing nation with underground copper mine tunnels? we also have tunnels at state house which we can turn into the central underground train station.
Walasa muntu wandi
Good one! Infact State House is more central, it is high time people got to use those tunnels.
Hihihihi indeed there has been no use for those SH tunnels
What’s wrong with the surface? Can’t we jst expand the existing fly-over bridges to maybe 3, 4 lanes?
Anyway, engineers know better but build a subway and in 1yrs time, it will be a sorry sight down there.
Think positive, maybe you or somebody else who is a positive thinking zedian can set up a clearing company and get a contract with ZRL. Division of labor guys…. Look at a football team, you get a manager or coal, team doctor, kit master, someone responsible for arranging travel, looking after the pitch, promotions,etc all these work for one football team and as a result there will be efficiency,which means better service and more happy customers and that means good profits and good profits means more jobs…. Remember is One Zambia One Nation ‘Tiyende Pamodzi’
Say no more. Just do. I predict that over the next ten years there will be development in some areas that will fly in the face of past lethargy and it’s up to all to support their individual niche. The country we ‘inherited’ was mostly someone else’s urban vision and we’re culturally dream killers but that’s curable. It’s okay to differ over the logistics and conclude it is not feasible. It is just as okay to conclude that there are many ways to get to the same point. That said, I am not endorsing any particular government. Just encouraging each to improve on the last. So far no one legacy is worthy of absolute praise. Measured praise perhaps. These guys can have their shot too. The worst they can do is shoot themselves in the foot but that’s not my wish.
Brillliant disposition.
You are exactly what we need in this country! Excellent points right there.
Thank you for your generosity guys. I just gave myself an advance red down arrow for my third sentence. Hopefully no tunnel vision in my train of thoughts, hee hee.
I am an Engineer and a member of EIZ but I am very diappointed with comments from our EIZ President – Bernard Chiwala. I am now doubting the calibre of people we have chosen to head this big institution of ours.
It is not correct to state that “Zambia has knowledge, experience and expertise in creating and managing underground tunnels”. Does he mean the poorly ventilated tunnels dotted across the Copperbelt? Talk to any Underground Miner and let him show us a tunnel system of acceptable standards? Here we are talking of creating a virtually livable space underground and not the poorly designed tunnels underground. Even then, the Cooperbelt tunnels were designed and constructed by foreigners NOT Zambians!!!
Prof Mwenda was right that we need to up the budget as well as duration.
I meant to say “I am very disappointed with comments from our EIZ President.”
If you can make a mistake in the first sentence then you are one fake engineer!
Kapoli, I have never known of a Professor who passed his or her thesis 100% – NO. We all write our theses and pass by obtaining some percentage of correct answers and NOT 100%. So don’t judge me by one (1) wrong word out of 132 words – the correct words represent 99.24% and that would indeed be a high pass mark. By the way I browse through my blackberry so it is cumbersome to spell check on these small screens. ENGINEERS ARE THOSE WHO MAKE AN IDEA OUT OF NOTHING – EVEN FROM MISTAKES OF OTHERS. FIRST ROCKET LAUNCH WAS A FLOP BUT ENGINEERS NEVER GAVE UP.
So want the foreigners to come and construct our underground rail roads?.. you are a useless engineer a disgruntled one that failed at varsity
So as an Engineer you don’t believe in your own capability and knowledge of engineering as well as that of your fellow Zambian Engineers? Then Zambia will never be developed if the very people who should have the knowledge, expertise and innovative ideas admit they are not capable.
Field Kolwe and Reader: You need to know that in Engineering there are fields of specialization. We have Mining, Process, Metallurgical, Industrial, Civil Engineers etc, etc. If I am a Process Engineer don’t expect me to build tunnels; that will go to Civil Engineers. My point is I have not seen ONE local Engineer in Zambia who has specialised in building underground commuter tunnels – mention ONE that you know?
This is the reason we have so many uncompleted projects in Zambia because people like jumping on anything even where they do not have the expertise. It is like at a Hospital you don’t expect a Gynecologist to treat all sorts of diseases just because he is a Doctor – NO in fact a BIG NO. In every field there is specialization and we do not have that specialization for Tunnels.
We know about specialization.Just because you haven’t seen one does not mean there are none.
I am afraid we have gone into rhetoric once again. Can Bernard Chiwala stop talking about the merits of that we all know it can work, thats not the problem. Just go ahead and start working. Who doesnt know that subways and high speed trains work. But learn from the gautrain first. You may not wish to invest so much money in unpopulated areas. The country requires a balanced approach to development and we shall not eat fast trains. Deal with the bigger rocks first, revenues from the mines to restructure agriculture.
Let those that are jealous with what prof clive Chirwa want to do for the Nation go to hell.When are they going to stop criticizing for the sake of it.Keep it up Professor Chirwa.Twalishiba chilimikalipa
Especially ba mumbwe ba upnd namashilu yanabo ku german na usa ruwe & himaambo respectively
CB engineers are tunnel specialists! My foot! Thats laughable.
A chap that is out of touch with reality!!! I suppose it’s free to dream. Has he seen the state of the existing infrastucture???? Just getting those things sorted will take a lifetime my friend. Get real and get off your high horse.
Biggy @13, naumfwa Professor Chirwa, tapali ichigayo!
We haven’t been able to run an airline,ZR in its current form is on life support,we can’t maintain Findeco,zanaco or UTH buildings,poor sanitation in Lsk is breeding cholera….i could go on and on.We have mangled and shipwrecked these simper endevours and now you’re telling me that we’re embarking on far more financially and technically challenging project? This new project is already a shipwreck in poorly managed zambia.This ZR rocket ain’t leaving the launchpad.
Hahaha ati we have lots of experience and engineers on the copperbelt…
Clearly he does not know the difference between a passenger rail tunnel and a mining tunnel
Forget about this project. copy and paste syndrom doesnt always work. A good project is one with good turn over. how will it generate money to pay back. Let him just revive a commuter train from town to. chilenje and peharps connect to chelstone
I also share the views that this project is one of the major project which can not be completed in two/three years period. The project should be segmented into development time frame.
Remember the old adage, “Rome was not belt in a day”.
Besides this ambitious project we have to develop the newly created districts and also the 8000km Link Zambia. There are also uncompleted projects in Schools and Hospitals.
Its not wrong to think big but the constrains of funding must also be put into consideration.
Imwe Zambia will be there even after 3 years. whoever takes over from Chirwa will continue with the project. Stop thinking like Politicians who abandon what their predecessors started. Naimwe you can continue where chirwa will leave it.
use that money to start up another city . a well. planned city to. accomodate subway system for the future.
There is no demand for subway sytem in Zambia at the monent. Please tell this man. start with basics. The council built a footbridg at Mississi crossing and no one is using it yet its a good idea. Let him task social scientist to do research for him.
Spot on boss! This guy Chirwa is not a businessman, he spent many years in a classroom.
Good ideas gone bad. Bottom line the country can’t afford it. Let’s ask the Chinese to do it for free.
Yeah, but remember there is no such thing as free lunch. In Zambia, its typical to enjoy free stuff as ne mbasela na dyonko nafuti nafuti but a closer reality check will reveal a lot about these so called free Chinese projects in Zambia which take away even unskilled jobs from the Zambian citizenry, later on semiskilled and professional roles and offer them to “Chinese experts” with very low salaries to avoid paying tax . As if that is not enough once the free project is commissioned govt will give warrant to the Chinese a five year free or reduced tax concession to operate the project for a profit. Zambia a turf for experiments, be it technical, economical and oh yes, medical! The exception might be the intolerance for GMO under the late Patrick Levy Mwanawasa. Yes it is dubiously free!
I wonder how some people will feel when professor chirwa succeeds with his plan for ZR. As for me am wishing him all the best
Maverick professor Chirwa, I have been following his pronouncements with a lot of interest. Not sure if we need underground trains at the moment. There are a lot of other ways we can improve the railway and transport sector rather than proposing such expensive business ventures. Where will poor Zambia get the money to build underground railway system from?
Chirwa nao alasabaila sana…………………………………………………………………………………….
Ndelolesha fye….
“UNDERGROUND RAILINE”….. Ba Prof. you are too ambitious, can our economy finance that? Stick to what you have now, i’d rather put that money on roads expasions and building industries…. “UNDERGROUND RAILINE”. Eh!!! some priorities…
mwebantu its jst the lusaka station its not the underground line the way you are make it sound, ba LT dont confuse pipo read the full report thats when you will understand,there is no land in ??D to build a rail station, and if its built far from town e.g like were the airport is, pipo will not be using it. can you imagine the noise from these electric trains if the station was built were near citymarket?
Okay twaufya fwe ma Coppala Engineers,
Proffers just make an order of the following and we will be on site to do the tunnel (ichikwela).
.1. Boomer machine (with double boom)
2. Boltec
3. Jelatines ( explosives)
4. LHDs
5. D/Trucks
and we send as the layout so that the job can start.
Okay twaufya fwe ma Coppala Engineers,
Proffers just make an order of the following and we will be on site to do the tunnel (ichikwela).
.1. Boomer machine (with double boom)
2. Boltec
3. Jelatines ( explosives)
4. LHDs
5. D/Trucks
and send as the layout so that the job can start.
Typical third world thinking, that lacks ability to prioritise. A country that has very poor health and education facilities is wasting money in a venture to nowhere. Why cant government invest that money in improving the quality of infrastructure at colleges and universities. If Clive Chirwa thinks he has a good plan for ZRL, let him look for investors and see if they will invest in his wild ideas that cannot yield returns. Chirwa has never run a business, and has no clue about the complexities of rail business in Zambia.
This is will bChirwa’s first business, and he has never failed to run any business.
Mind you all these government areas have their yearly budgets so its up to their ministers in charge to sort out their projects, may be we should be asking the minister of health and education what they are doing with their budget allocation for the year????? If all are busy with their projects at the same time can you imagine the visible developments or improvement we’ll be able to see in the next 5 years?
Come on fellow Zambians! Lets do away with our negative thinking! Why are we quick in praising the developed world and doubting our own ideas? The so called developed countries did not achieve what they have in a day but step by step! We have the money and the brains! Lets support Prof. Chirwa! Abash NEGATIVE THINKING!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Absolutely, it’s far better to live in cloud coo-coo land and pump endless amounts of money into something without priorities than to be realistic….. err, I mean “negative”.
It’s sad 2c such #s of prophets of doom.Gentlemen & Zambians I suppose u r,y not give this project some benefit of doubt b4 we prophesise doom.What gud wil it do me & u if he fails?2much phd in u pipo.No wonder it ain’t easy 2succeed amidst such mentality in Zambia.We r invariably wishng our neighbour doom when we c signs of success in them.It’s sad
Did anyone tell Sata that we had greatest moments with Cliver Chirwa when he was away? Life for Zambians was so exciting.
I can’t wait to see Sata go again for reflections. I hope he will fire his Injustice Minister Kabimba. When is he announcing reshuffles of ministers?
The donor community first wants to see the proposals before they can move in. So its not the question of finance as most of u are thinking in a narrowly minded way.
Donors will fight to do this project if its feasible and viable. That is how they justify spending tax payers money from their countries and usually send in their own engineers (job creation) to do the job and eventually build references for further projects elsewhere.
If well educated people like Chirwa and the engineering institute can think like that about ZRL then their is no hope for our country. Instead of discussing ways to transform engineering schools in Zambia so graduates can meaningfully contrubute to the economy of Zambia thru inventions and innovations, they are talking about rubbish stuff. What a shame!
its indeed a shame…. will chat 5 yrs from now
Good and challenging goals but realistic!!
The underground would be the perfect home for the street urchins.
Maybe a TRAM system can work. It is easy and can run from the township into central Lusaka and loop.
An example is the UK trams = CROYDON AND SHEFFIELD
The idea is good but on constructing a second line from Chingola to Livingstone, I have a totally new idea. I advise extending the line from Chingola to connect with the railway line at the Angolan boarder which will be less than 500 km and the huge volume of copper that will be transported on that railway will result in generation of huge amounts of money that will go to support other ventures.
There will also be transporting of goods from other countries into Zambia by the same rail and eventually the congestion of Zambian roads by foreign trucks will reduce resulting in long lasting roads with minimum accidents.
On opening a railway line to Angola, Zambia will be at an advantage. The more openings we have to the sea coast the better for our economy.
You losers ! Clive Chirwa designed a major part of a NASA Spacecraft why should he fail to do this one ? Mind you, he has been away for some time so he is not infected by this Brontok Virus most suffer from (Emptypromiseitosis) ! Let the guy work
whats the NASA R&D budget. KR 20,000 ???? Priorities mudala.
Which ‘priorities’? The project will be Phased. Infact most of you will be shocked with the amount of financial support Clive will attract
@ Dancing Midget, yes, I am shocked at how much financial support Chirwa has attracted already!!!
US$120 million of TAXPAYER MONEY (from you and me!) without so much as a financial plan or analysis of alternative investments such as an above ground railway, tramway, or good old fashioned full-size city buses. It takes a lot more than an engineering prowess to make a project succeed or to be “feasible” and am surprised Chirwa didn’t learn that in his time at NASA as you say.
Still, when so many people believed the line about 90-days I guess it makes sense that folks are both desperate and gullible enough to swallow this one too. Sure, sure – you’ll have a fully working underground in three years. Hooozaaa!
Prof Chirwa’s cv is on the internet. He has never worked for NASA and only a collision expert in car design.
Like one blogger has said, if people could believer a grade 7 constable Sata to bring them heaven on earth in 90 days..
Why would they not believer a Prof?
Zambians learn to challange yourselves with new powerful and pioneering devt projects. Do not be bogged down by failures of the past. Look aheard. There is not future in the past. Prof Chirwa, keep going.
*****s with rotten brains like our kinds should give respect to the bembas.
Damn, hey you f.u.c.k.e.n. starving ass p.u.s.s.y. b.i.t.c.h. stop using my s.h.i.t. you feel me? God damn it, son. Get your own s.h.i.t. You feel me? This is my s.h.i.t. , dol.
Them b.i.t.c.h.e.s pay me green to call me by the above s.h.i.t., you understand the s.h.i.t. am saying to you, dol?
All white holes, chocolate holes, purple holes, pink holes, coloured holes and yellow holes want me to do them right because their p.u.s.s.y. ass boys do not them b.i.t.c.h.e.s. You feel me, you p.u.n.c.k.y. ass, p.u.s.s.y. boy?
When I roll in my damn ride, them white holes at upmarket night clubs call me using my s.h.i.t. Stay the f.u.c.k. away from my s.h.i.t. dol.
None of that p.u.n.c.k.y. ass p.u.s.s.y. you said mean a damn thing to me, you gat that, p.u.s.s.y. boy?
Imwe!!
Chirwa’s mandate is to rehabilitate the railway system and not to worry whether there is enough medicine in our hospitals. Looks that we are well and truely trapped in our third world mentalitity that we cry foul when someone suggests upgrading railways from current late 1800’s (Rhodes standards) to mid 1900’s (which is still antiquated). It beats me that many cannot see the benefits of a more efficient transport system on all sectors of the economy. Viva to all forward thinkers. I doff my hat to the prof.
Good idea boy.Implement it
Technically, land use in Lusaka is still poor; so a lot can be achieved without really going UG. The EIZ and the Surveyors Institute of Zambia – Quantity Surveying Section need to speak to the Prof about the cost of excavations in Lusaka. Gentlemen, Lusaka sits on a rock; it will be bloody expensive to execute the UG network. The plan is great, in the longer term. For now, trams could do.
Maybe he does not understand the meaning of Kamwala! ni mwala! Tell him. It will be bloody expensive but rock solid. We can as well start preparing for war. UG bunkers in Lusaka hey! Here’s my suggestion. It will be cheaper and feasible to put to good use the tunnels exposed by the MMD govt. Professor Chirwa, just buy the trains we’ve got the tunnels already. Simple! Environmentally friendly systems integration at best! Ninshi ukulashupikwa?
There are bowling machines out there that eat rock like chalk. But I agree with most of the bloggers that putting a railway underground shouldn’t be of immediate priority. There are several ways of decongesting Lusaka which should be exhuasted first. Creating an underground system is not a new thing but one should question why we have failed to manage an existing and simpler sewer system in Lusaka? Whilst it is straight foward to build an underground system we should spell out how we will manage it sustainably
Hahaha ati we have lots of experience and engineers on the copperbelt…
Clearly he does not know the difference between a passenger rail tunnel and a mining tunnel
Keep on dreaming….
Wat most of us r fogeting is dat gvt needs money n frm wat we hv seen gvt spends huge amts of money maintaning roads,if oni thoz against cn think of da positves this will bring, den u wudnt b against.gvt wont oni save on road maintenace bt 10,000 jobs created 10,000 payn PAYE.widening da tax base,reduced transport cost etc.The only thing we zambians knw is talk more n think less. It is wise not speak if u hv nothing sensible to talk about.
I just hope you have analysed engineering drawings for Findeco house least you cause structural to the building. This debate has been dominated motivational speaker whose thrust is” YOU CAN DO IT. No sirs Its more than just doing it. Look at the social-economical side.
i hope your drilling and blasting will not cause structurals defects Findeco house which is already a leaning tower
revive ubz. way cheaper
Underground tunnels around Lusaka when half the city is flooded during the rainy season because we can’t even manage above ground drains?
Sure…. it sounds like the best way to spend billions of dollars to me!
Can one pliz offer a counter to Clive Chirwa’s plans!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@ DERKA, what problem do you want to solve? If it’s urban congestion, here are some ideas:
1) An above ground light railway (surely cheaper and more feasible than an underground);
2) Reintroduction of large city buses (even cheaper and more feasible still);
or how about….
3) Finding somewhere to move the street vendors who are currently clogging 50% of our roads! That would help almost immediately.
On the other hand, if you only want to talk about rail, then rehabilitation of freight lines with a clear link to international ports would be far more important and meaningful for Zambia than a super-modern, high speed passenger service (…which is honestly more about ego and glory than anything else!).
Or if you really want to dream, why not a monorail like in the…
Sorry, the last phrase was meant to be:
….”like in the Simpsons.”
Btw – It’s a funny episode in which a con man comes to town and convinces the people that a monorail is what they need to put Springfield on the map. Of course, it costs them a fortune, the con man pockets the money, and the train falls apart the day it opens.
Hmmmmm…… yes, lessons can even be learned from cartoons.
I hope this dream will be a beautiful one not turning in to a nightmare after two months of completion if at all it will even be finished and on time ofcourse!
where would oxygen come from? what if the train developes a fault while under ground in transit to ndola. what happens?
am not an engineer but i can not ask such a question, you making the discussion boring, come on are you serious?
Ba Favour umwenso!
u really sound pathetic and ignorant, u dont know that people have built markets underground, rail lines and stations that look like heaven underground………
@ Favour, to try and give you a respectful answer, I don’t think even Chirwa in his wildest imagination is talking about building an underground line all the way from Lusaka to Ndola. That would be an above ground, high-speed electric link.
The underground line (as I understand his vision) would be a commuter rail for Lusaka – something like the “tube” in London, New York Subway, Paris Metro, etc.
Yes, lots of things have been built underground.
It is entirely possible, but expensive and requires BOTH very good engineering AND exceptional maintenance. Among other things this means ventilation, fail-proof electric supply, and drainage. Without those, the underground would be not only be putrid but an almost certain death trap!
I hope this helps.
With the ZESCO Power cuts! awe sure not me!
Why can professor be made Minister of Transport and Communication because he seems to know his job well better that these others who are occupying positions but no data.Mr Sata may God Bless you for picking this man atleast will see something new in the PF government which we have not experienced.Mr President God bless you for the job you are doing in the railway systems.More jobs is coming and will see it happen
I’m with you Pr Chirwa on this one. Let the shallow minded bureaucrats be left with their failures and fear of success. I believe that that which you are embarking on is worthwhile and very feasible.
You people! Chirwa is planning for Rail Transport, that is his area and his mandate. Do not expect him to have ambitious Plans for the Health sector if the people in that sector do not have such Plans. Go go Chirwa!
The Naysayers remind me of a person who will not move from point A to point B because he may be hit by a car when crossing the road, or he may develop some disease in transit, or he may run out of sustenance on his way or he may fall sick and die before reaching his destination OR THIS OR THAT MIGHT HAPPEN. Tell you what where would we all be if we all had that mindset? Dead in bed or starving to death. MAAK A PLAN for Gods sake and GET MOVING. Doff to the Prof
the negative Zambian attitude on this blog is overly appalling.Why are you guys so negative about Chirwa.Zambia Railways on it’s own is a cash cow given the current economic activities in Zambia,the mines for example.The same Zambian engineers you are discarding were called in to help out with the Euro tunnel,i remember ZCCM had a company that dealt in tunnelling.Guys,if we are not experts or are not knowledgeable on issues lets keep quiet and refrain from commenting negatively and as a result expose our foolishness
When the Eiffel Tower in Paris was being constructed, a lot of intellectuals opposed it as a useless monstrosity. Over a 100 years, it has become one of the best known monuments in France and in the world, generating huge amounts of money from tourists. The time I was there, I could not afford to go to the very top because they charge according to levels. Its original height was 300m. Why? Because 300 engineers petitioned against its construction. That’s how Gustav Eiffel decided to have it 300m high, each metre representing an opposing engineer. And it only took under 3 years to build. What’s an underground train station to brilliant minds like Clive Chirwa and Chiwala?
If you tally all the money that we as a country spend on useless by-elections and subsidising maize, and re-channel it to worthwhile causes like building our transport systems, we wouldn’t be giving retarded comments on this thread criticising a worthwhile cause by Prof. Clive Chirwa.
#Woza Woza: you are my man and you have made my day. # MR T, With the many accidents and poor drivers in Zambia, trams will bring more blood on Zambian roads. #Tourist, I am with you. More tourists will come to see the Zambian underground rail system and money will be raised to repay its dead and improvement of Zambian economy
This is a tower of Babel in Zambia’s dream.Have we managed to run the current shambolic line? Oh yes,lets build a staircase to heaven since we have done very well dealing with floods in Lusaka.
Too many negative bloggers from Zambian Watchdog infiltrating this site
So, the men who have the expertise to build underground tunnels in the mines, will take their equipment from the mines and dig the tunnels for Zambia Railways?
That is a long term project. Work on the short term project like the failed Lusaka local train. U will be judged & supported by this one. Walk before running
But why would someone think there is an urban problem in Lusaka. Thats nothing. Take those funds to agriculture. Let us have trams and subways when we all have a per capita income of 3,500 us dollar per person now reduce the gene co-efficient. Otherwise your train station shall be a haven of criminals and you shall eventually abandon it when UPND gets into power.
There goes another typical scenario of show casing. How can a country like Zambia spend all that money building an underground train system? It’s not even necessary. We do not only have a small population in Luska, but also limited funds to run this passenger transport system. ‘Our commerce, trade and industry’ base is not big enough be able to sustain this type of undertaking, we are just not there yet as a nation. This would be like trying to Put a roof on a house where we have not finished building the foundation…imagine, as one of his alternatives, he wants to partner with Zesco to run electric trains..we all know what that means. There are better things to focus on in Zambia right now, than buying a brand new Mercedes while we still live in a mud house behind a damp star…
Spot on!
Are you sure you know the population of Lusaka! When were you last there anywhere? Just the congestion on the roads does warrant such investment. This is the right time to think big and invest for the future.
You’ve run away from Zambia and yet you still want to keep the country backwards.
the state of the railwayline is too bad.. why not improve facilities on the surface before considering going underground. EG people travelling from Chawama to UTH need not pass thru town centre.. Build a road crossing the railway line to Kabwata, this can easy traffic congession on the lsk- kafue rd
I beg to differ that as a country you can’t dream big… infrastructure is part of development and such a subway will in fact open more opportunities for people to be able to put their own food on the table and have access to clean water. If people can commute to LSK from L/stone, Kitwe, Mpulungu quickly and cheaply, definitely that would improve efficiency and enable people to have more access to things that would improve their lives.
Developed nations didn’t wait until everyone was ‘rich’ before they had vital infrastructure like good road, rail, dams and canals networks. You find the poorest people on earth living in America and yet they built some of their ‘coast-to-coast’ road and rail networks during the Great Depression when everyone was suffering.
They had cheap access to labour because people didn’t have jobs. The US through NASA has sent what you could call a just robot to Mars to do some unknown, maybe fruitless research at a cost of billions dollars, and yet at a time when unemployment rate was almost hitting 10% and at a time when the country was struggling with massive debt. And yet everyone was united in the cause and the mission objective.
Don’t get me wrong, yes we need to prioritise our spending and certainly a country like Zambia shouldn’t entangle itself in a massive debt like what KK did. Yet it was KK who built us the little we still have today – FINDECO House, ZSIC House, etc.
Good stuff
Watch out.. It will end up being a hiding place for criminals
Technically it can be done but is it a need or a want for someones CV. I agree that Lusaka’s population does not warrant an underground system. Let us not forget that the reason these cities with underground system have them because they ran out of surface space. I believe we are not there yet. Let us put desks and chairs in our schools in the rural areas first before pleasing Lusaka. Lusaka is not Zambia. Let us make the cross country system excellent that we put the bus carriers exploiting people on the edge.
Clive Chirwa is an inspiration a Future President
in my opinion.To succeed you have to think big.
I am very shocked that the people at ZWD
do not report any developmental issues such as
the Clive Chirwa lecture.
It’s only rumours about H.E or HH issues .
Keep it up LT your strategy is long-term .
News on development for all Zambians not
rumours and insults.
Go Clive Chirwa yourbintelkect is above any current
Politician !!
before the underground is built, the following must be addressed:
1. Water Drainage – the risk of flood waters entering the train tunnel must be mitigated.
2. Security – Street kids, crinimals and homeless must be prevented from abusing the facility: Physical Security, CCTV, Guards.
It is rather embarrassing that Zambians can get so excited by looking at AUTOCAD generated grand designs on Clive Chirwa’s laptop. How can you be so gullible? I have listened to Clive Chirwa on a number of occasions and to be honest some of his thinking is fit for a JETS FAIR for High School pupils. And this design should have been presented a JETS FAIR.
Spot on! I used to listed to his presentations in the UK when he was aspiring to be presidential candidate in the MMD. Boring to say the least! His ideas are out of touch with context. He is better of as a lecturer.
OK, I have gone back to dig what he said, yes I have to agree 3 years is over ambitious. He may have started on a wrong footing to try and please the politicians to get cash quickly but he shouldn’t have to do ‘promises’ if he was genuine.
As a government agent waiting to be funded, you don’t do schedule promises because it may backfire in your face. Schedule and cost are two monsters engineers hate the most and you leave that to the person or agent doing the funding (the one who is paying) and then you argue with them to give you more time. Or you wait until experts advise you on what’s achievable.
I also saw he presented some simulations and schematic diagrams; again this is premature and wrong. When did he carry out a feasibility study?
Has he considered all the stakeholders and all their requirements? Has he consulted the public – people may opposite a rail line to pass under their house? Above all has he done requirements analysis yet? You don’t do design (even just a prototype) without carrying out requirements about what is it you are trying to achieve. He is going to need a much wider consultative process than what he has said and done publicly. You can’t just copy a replica of another town or city and say I will do that for LSK.
How did he come up with the cost (material, labour, etc.)? I think I’m starting to have some serious doubts after reading what he said… he is trying a bottom-up approach instead of ‘top-down’ approach of systems engineering (take the whole; do requirements, functional breakdown,…
then come up with your lower level design). He is hardware and structural engineer and they don’t do systems engineering at all. He’s gonna need to hire some serious people to help if he is genuine.
Oh and he also mentioned he was going to partner with ZESCO… well I hope ZESCO will also be upgraded because at their current services with road shedding and all, these trains will perpetually be grounded forever. ZESCO is failing to power domestic 2-bedroom homes atm, how are they going to power a railway system which needs some serious power grids? And how is he preselecting subcontractors without even doing a tender process? He also mentioned solar, well it’s feasible but you really need some more research and analysis than this….
I was very supportive (and still is) of this project but after reading what he said and the way he was given massive media coverage without anyone questioning him on these facts, or lack of, I’m starting to have some serious questions about all this. He needs to stay clear of engineering of flatter, pander and cajole. I don’t question his reported and claimed smarts, but as an engineer he is hitting too much below his wait (metaphor intended).
I am sure most of the people opposing him are Zambian men. Nothing but jealous. When are you going to appreciate someone of your kind? You are used to your women kneeling in front of you that you cannot reason beyond chauvinism. The man had BIG ideas and a BIG dream which has already intimidated all of you!Some of you will never dream beyond having 5 girlfriends.
I didn’t see this one before.I like it! You’ve truly taken it in a totally different direction.And you know what? I agree with you.
Clean your cities first and when you’ve managed that simpler task then we’ll know you can embark on this more demanding task.
i cant wait for this man to succeed!its a wonderful thing when as a nation we can still dream..and even greater when those dreams come to fruition!!keep at it prof chirwa
its 1.5 billion dollars, not 120 million dollars..
imwe bantu dont be excited, this is zambbia, as soon as he gains popularity he will be fired by the appointing authority. dont forget that this man has political ambitions so if he makes much noise he will become a threat to the authorities…in any case some of his ideas maybe ok but way too much…let him do things one at a time
who appointed him anyway if not Sata. It was Sata and the PF government who saw potential in Clive Chirwa. Your hatred for the PF is blinding your judgement and eyes guys. Stop that and pray for your President.
all these plans sound well and good. My question though is how will our feeble power grid cope with the additional load of electric trains and other infrastructure? Furthermore, will our aging hydro-electric plant still be able to provide a reliable power supply to the rest of the country ( think about current load shedding and unreliable supply)? I’m of the humble opinion that perhaps before we get too ambitious, we may need to consider the long term viability of these great sounding projects. I would argue that a nuclear power station would be the first thing our leaders need to consider before we end up with expensive relics once again.
I had given him a chance until he mentioned solar to power the trains. Who advices him ? This is done no were in the world, solar panels struggle to power cookers and you want them to power trains ! You will be wasting tax payers money on useless consultancy’s.
We have talked so many times about developing hospitals, improving education institutions and so on, but we need action. I dont see why Clive’s idea’s/ambitions should be shot down all based on the failures of the health sectors and the education sectors to come up with concrete and ambitious plans to lift the faces of their respected institutions. I’m in full support of the Dr, we need other ways to generate income, we need people to be employed, and its projects like these that will keep smart people from the streets. Only thing is that making it might not be the problem, maintaining it will be a greater task, Clive needs to come up with a dedicated team just to maintain this transportation system. Partnering with ZESCO doesnt please my ears, we need serious power sources.
OK, I’m not going to critique his resume and his claim to being a Professor. But what I will only say is being a professor and running a research department is completely different from running a strategic public company like Zambia Railways.
You make a point about starting to put food on the table and access to clean water first before dreaming to build a subway or underground rail network.
However I beg to differ that as a country you can’t dream big… infrastructure is part of development and such a subway will in fact open more opportunities for people to be able to put their own food on the table and have access to clean water. If people can commute to LSK from L/stone, Kitwe, Mpulungu quickly and cheaply, definitely that would improve efficiency…
and enable people to have more access to things that would improve their lives.
Developed nations didn’t wait until everyone was ‘rich’ before they had vital infrastructure like good road, rail, dams and canals networks. You find the poorest people on earth living in America and yet they built some of their ‘coast-to-coast’ road and rail networks during the Great Depression when everyone was suffering. They had cheap access to labour because people didn’t have jobs. The US through NASA has sent what you could call a just robot to Mars to do some unknown, maybe fruitless research at a cost of billions dollars, and yet at a time when unemployment rate was almost hitting 10% and at a time when the country was struggling with massive debt…
…And yet everyone was united in the cause and the mission objective.
Don’t get me wrong, yes we need to prioritise our spending and certainly a country like Zambia shouldn’t entangle itself in a massive debt like what KK did. Yet it was KK who built us the little we still have today – FINDECO House, ZSIC House, etc.
As for him paying allegiance to the Queen, well nothing wrong in getting an expatriate I guess, even better if he originally hails from Zambia. If he was white, I’m sure no one would have questioned his motives. About his laptop, well, maybe he is shipping his Katunga via sea cargo… it can take up to 6 months ?
By the way he actually is a Professor and former head of Bolton Automotive and Aerospace Research Group (BAARG).
That said, the through-life support is the hard part and any serious engineer would be thinking beyond just erecting the capability. I’m a systems engineer and what I have learned over the years of practice is maintenance costs far outweigh any acquisition costs. You can borrow money to build this thing, but can you keep borrowing to sustain it so it remains useful. Government will have to sell the rail to private business who will the run it like a business. It won’t be sustainable for it’s Life of type (LoT) if it remains under government care.
Let’s not even forget that we had a real good rail network not long ago in the 90’s from C/Belt to L/stone but the cost of maintaining it has sucked the life out of that link and here we are talking another dream venture…
it will survive, but it may be costly for the majority of people. Even just a contract to run it on behalf of the government.
A good systems engineer would be thinking about maintenance and through-life support costs (including reliability and sparing issues). And they need to work together with central statistics office, planners, roads people, housing people to have a grand vision of LSK at least 50 years from now.