It was disturbingly interesting to hear that the NCC is being encouraged to enact into law, a requirement that any Presidential Candidate have a university degree. On one hand, certain sectors of society, have [rightly so] dismissed this intent to be politically motivated to bar one MC Sata from standing.
However, I do not wish to dwell on politics. I hope to provoke the mind of the person who bothers to read this, and hopefully convince the reader that very little thought has been put into this proposal. This proposal is nothing more than a sham, and for the sake of a constitution which represents all Zambians, the NCC is better off discussing more meaningful clauses.
This idea reeks of blatant discrimination, associated only with elitist regimes. I doubt this is the direction we want to go as a country. To quote George Orwell, this is a classic example of narcissist thinkers who vainly think that “all animals are equal, but some are more equal than others”.
In Zambia, very few people have had the opportunity to even get a secondary education, not out of their own inability, but because of our government’s own failures.Today, us who have been simply lucky enough to obtain degrees suddenly choose to put ourselves up on a pedestal- one with very shaky legs I might add! What buffoonery!
Mr. Mulongoti who chose to go on record to support this outrageous proposal found himself at pains explaining why this feather brain idea should go forward. He labeled it “positive discrimination”- God knows what type of educative political term he was trying to coin! Matter of fact, assuming Mr. Mulongoti has a university degree, I am thinking he probably did not learn any analytical thought processes. His utterances give me opportunity to state “you can pay for tuition, but you cannot buy true education”.
Further, have we forgotten that world-class successes such as Bill Gates do not have that university paper. Meaning if Zambia has any potential “Bill Gates”- he or she can forget about bringing his innovation to our country through the presidency. It is absurd and unrealistic to come to the conclusion that having a university degree results in a high likelihood of a successful president. The presidency is an institution which should not be looked at in such simplistic terms. The few self-important “graduates” who are supporting this frivolous proposal have a very uneducated view of life and need to be schooled in what attributes befit the qualification of a leader.
The answer does not lie in a university paper. (Un)fortunately Zambia has had “educated” people disappoint them more than once. Here is my version of that popular adage; fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me, I probably do not learn very well from my experiences despite me being educated.
Interesting topic for debate right here…bloggers, are you all on holidays? I no longer see veterans like Sony Ericsson, Baby C, Zoe, Rashid, Ba Moze 6 others. I hope you’re all well.
A master piece from you Chilekwa M. Mumba. Zambians do not realise there are degrees in the western world in crap like beautician and fimo fimo uko. I bet I will ask my daughter to get that degree and come and be president.
Change-movers all over the world have hardly held degrees! Ifanything, the more educated people are, the more risk-averese they become
these are the kafupi antics,remember how fixed KK on parentage issue.don’t make rule with view to targeting certain pipo,it is retrogressive.
How many of our so called graduates have failed to perform politically,or even professionally vis-a-vee hard core thieves? most have proved to be untrustworthy….ukawalala ndiye pake.yes most of have degrees,but running a nation requires wisdom and not the degrees.
Mulongoti the last time i met him was studying law(evening classes) and i only hope he has finished coz it would have been headlines to hear mulongoti being called to be conferred with an LLB degree at UNZA.well this aside, the act of barring someone just because they dont have a university degree is a very foolish idea only concocted by people like mulongoti and tetamshimba knowing that these are the current Kamalondo re incarnates who may be likened to those wild dogs in animal farm, ukubosa bosa fye namano tamuli mufyo balelanda. surely how many graduates do we have compared to those who only went up to grade 9 or 12? a drop in the zambezi river. these people think unza has been expanding since independence and all the grade 12 leavers are absorbed by the institution. failures think li
The mmd has urinated in our pot
Why is Mulongoti not sayiing Presidents should have Masters or PhD? or MPs should be degree or masters holders? This is nonsense.
I am a degree holder myself and while i am extremely tempted to agree with this condition when i look at people like Chiluba and the way he messe us up, i still believe the presidency should be open to everyone as long as they are Zambian. Mind you its the people who have to choose in an election whether to elect a degree holder or not. Leadership is not acquired by having adgree. Some pipo are just born with it. Right now I’d rather discuss the 50%+1 clause than the Degree clause.
# 4, a good example is Prof Lungwangwa who has failed literally despite having PhD.
Only professors should be allowed to run for the Presidency. We need educated leaders like myself.
quite interesting, imagine if this act passed and then non degree holder MP’s want to vie for the presidency, what will happen? mulongoti is being short sighted on this issue
#7. The 50%+1 should not even be discussed but it should be adopted. But coz they know their president will lose, they don’t want this clause. Too bad to hear what is going on in Zambia.
No wonder why Zambia is and will always be in the ‘uncivilized’ bracket. This idea is total nonsense. You tried the same gimmick on K.K, going to extreme as far as declaring him stateless so that you made sure he does not stand for elections. Contrary, we have a foreign born president and nobody is talking. Now that King Cobra looks favorable this time around, you find need to temper with the constitution. Sad but the truth is that cases like this make me feel ashamed to be a Zambian.
yu can have degrees yet lacking in wisdom.definitely in this time and age we need to emphasise on literacy as a prerequisite, not degrees plz,give us a break.only pipo like mulongoti who just got his law degree if at all he cleared can support such a bill, and sinyangwe f for obvious reasons.we can list names of phd holders here who have been completely a let down in our mother zed at various levels.our freedom fighters(fallen heroes) must be turning in their graves for they hoped and prayed that their educated sons and daughters wud emancipate their beloved country,but alas are performing worse than they dreamed of.
Ethel the fact that they are saying a degree is nonsense to me. In my time, we used to laugh at boys going to do a degree in library studies (no offence to those boys on here who did it). What nonsense! Yet again I am not surprised. It happened to KK.
Why do Zambians keep quiet about such things? There are thousands of children out there who are more intelligient than most people with degrees but could not make it because their parents died.
I was in class with some one who was very intelligient, this person got a very good division one but because there was no one to pay for him, he went to become a primary school teacher. Yet a minister`s son who had a distinction in English and credits (6s) in the rest went straight to the UK to get a degree.
actually in Zambia rite now, there are more failures than graduates, a scenario that is still depicting the 1964 issue”there were less than 100 graduates at independence bla bla bla” if you see, there are more secondary schools in Zambia producing not less than 30,000 school leavers every year and UNZA is only absorbing about 6-7000 of these, CBU about 3000 and all colleges put together still absorb only about 10 thousand meaning we are left with about 10 to 12000 pupils roaming the streets. Now this a more of a geometrical progression type of problem meaning every year the number of grade 12 pupils roaming the streets increases while learning space is not showing any increment at all
the presidential candidate having a degree can only apply in nigeria
Chilekwa, it`s such things which make people think twice about coming back home. Kaleza!
This Legislation is purely targeted at our King Sata. Simple. Same old MMD tricks . Remember Mpombo at one time said that Presidential candidate should not be over 70. Now that his boss is over 70, Mpombo has gone quiet. How cheap all this sounds
for a colleague that gave the example of FTJ, cud someone tell me which universities FTZ went to?for the sake of this topic,can yu compare our talked about “Dr” FTJ to our humbly educated KK in terms of performance?or between sata and mulongoti/teta?or xavier chungu and masebo?
maybe we can cite our well educ pipo like mutati,fundanga,magande,chituwo? late LPM and Mazoka etc as citizens who in a way have shown that degrees can be a factor.
#18 Spot on. May be it`s time we called for no over 50s as well! See where we go! That will only leave us with one candidate!
CHALLENGE: Since all of us are not supporting this nonsense, what can all of us do to stop this rot?????? Otherwise the NCC will go ahead and adopt it.
Sata my President is scaring MMD.
# 2-18 i salute you.Good thinking.
It could have made ‘just’ a liittle bit of sense if they started with MPs because most of them just sleep in parliament waiting to be paid.
in short let the degree holders and the certificate holders sell themselves to the electorate, and us the the electorates will judge.this story is definitely retrogressive, and just shows how unreasonable pipo who are blinded by power can be.
This is purely selfishness,greed,corruption of the worst kind.well if we pass this clause, then all voters shud have at least advanced certificates/diplomas,how about that mulongoti? are yu going to make it as MMD because for past three presidential elections yu have failed to win the support of the educated majority along the line of rail.
I general think citizens have got the right to decide and choose who the want to lead them. On the other hand O’level, or Tertiary education could be nice for a leader to at least have and not necessary a Degree.
Interesting! Pipo stop the nonsense. Degrees are usually not factors on leadership. Leadership qualifications should be left open on education level but scrutinised on the normal accepted qualities and tenets of leadership. Go back as far as UNIP days; compare Sata’s performance with RB’s – “kutali ne mpanga”.
#25 That is tosh! You obviously have no relatives who never went to school because they had no support. Are you sure you are Zambian? If you are you probably have one or two somewhere.
good and visionary leadership has nothing to do with degrees! Yes we need educated people to be presidents but at time they ae not the best.
Gentlemen and women WHAT DO WE DO NOW?
#29 We have to petition. If we sit here and just yap, this will be in the constitution. The MMD are taking advantage of people and one would have thought they should be there to protect the interests of the masses. But, alas! Zambia is Zambia. Bring on the petition ba 3 says!
Please, good idea to have educated president! You are talking because sata do not have any qualification despite worked in various government departments. This was not done on merit but on friendship basis. Look at other countries fighting,,it is because of uneducated cadres like we will experience if sata becames president. This man should not be allowed to stand as a president of zambia. He will do more hame than nice one. I see no reason, we will have a president who can not read any document like sata, his job is to shout at the rally.. You are supporters of this rotten teeth old man. what idea do you expect from sata when he can not remember how many cigatete he smokes everyday, now you want him to a president of of tribe.
#30. Now who starts and how do all of us sign that petition?
#27 Ba 3RqU, please understand me. People should have the right to choose who they want and so have I, as a Zambian citizen. What I don’t agree with is lawfully imposing on people what kind of a person they should vote for, which in this case is a degree holder
#31. Poor thinking. How many degrees has Mugabe??????
Very soon you are to a Dr RB,then you have Dr Katele its all a joke in zed
I am in full view that we have an educated president with the credentials to back it up.
Many of you on the blog have been privileged to experience educated leadership where you are in the diaspora. Can any of you in an OECD country name one nation which is part of the OECD that does not have educated leadership. That’s right, you cannot and the countries are moving forward and are discussing things collectively including the global recession.
Why do you want to deny Zambia the opportunity of having educated leadership. We all saw the gains we had with Levy P Mwanawasa and this is correlated with educated leadership. Stop your Sata worshiping and think for the future of the country. [tbc
Theres no point in a president having a degree when the majority of zambians are not looking for leaders with brains instead they are looking for the loudest empty tins. Leaders in zambia on never picked on competency they are always picked on how they can relate to the average man on the street. But what most forget is that the president won’t spend his whole term at katondo he will have to face leaders of other nations well versed in matters. I hope michale sata wins because zambians need to learn what happens when you put a an empty tin into office maybe then they will beg for a smart leader.
#31 Kizito I bet he can write better english than you! No offence!
This is not about individuals imwe ba guy. It`s about your intelligient niece ku Mandevu whose mother (your sister) died of AIDS and you despite being wummy can not look after her. Yet your dull children will get degrees.
Wake up. By the way start posting with your flag and under the name we know you.
Sure the point of not many being able to afford education is taken and this is why we need an educated leader so he/she may be able to build the nation so the people can have or afford their children education.
As of now, I do not have a stance on the NCC adopting this clause but I am still in full view that the country needs educated leadership.
#36. Currently we have a president who is educated but he behaves like a villager who has never even stepped foot in class. The only difference with Presidents here (Australia) is the people are so honest and whatever they do is in an honest maner. Now look at RB, everything he does there is some hidden agenda or a “CUT”.
There are lots of reasons why a president should have a good education but we should not make this the ultimate prerequisite to qualify for presidency. As some have already pointed out, most of those with degrees have turned out to be only theroretical and cannot think ahead.
We must search for leaders with a vision for the country or we will never improve our living standards. No tutorial will help you become a good leader if you do not have the wisdom, integrity and enthusiasm to rule. Only he who can see the invisible can do the impossible!
#39. Why not say we need presidents with a PhD? They know their president RB will be eliminated. Look at Dora, she has a degree but see how arrogant and the behavious she displayed? See Lungwangwa’s behavious. As if they have never been to school.
#36Free Fimo Fimo. Yet more tripe from you as expected. One will agree that by virtue of being born in the US, Britain, German, France they are privillaged.
It is the same picture back home. Your children if you are in America have a 98% chance of having a degree than a child from George compound who has less than may be 30%. This does not mean your dull children are more intelligient than that child. Grow up for once.
Let’s look at the figures.
Kenneth Kaunda Not a degree holder (correct me if I am wrong)
——————————————————
At the end of his term.
-GDP per capita $330
-$9 billion dollars in debt
-Unemployment rising
-Mismanaged state companies closing and pending liquidation.
FTJ Chiluba not a degree holder (correct me if I am wrong)
—————————————————————
-Doube digit hyper inflation
-GDP per capita less than $900
-Rapid depreciation of Kwacha
-Massive job losses
-Corruption rampant
Levy P. Mwanawasa
—————————————–
-$1 billion dollars in reserves
-6% GDP growth
-Fight against corruption introduced
-FDI
-Single digit inflation
-Stable…
Levy P. Mwanawasa
—————————————–
-$1 billion dollars in reserves
-6% GDP growth
-Fight against corruption introduced
-FDI
-Single digit inflation
-Stable currency
-Appreciation of currency
Rupiah Banda
——————————————
Yet to see the figures but confident country is in good hands.
#36. Currently we have a president who is educated but he behaves like a villager who has never even stepped foot in class.
I do not understand what you are trying to say. I am in full view that villagers are human beings just like I am and are capable of thinking critically. Hakainde Hichilema is was born in the village and yet he has credentials that can put you to shame. Please explain how a “villager” behaves.
Also after explaining how a villager behaves, explain how a villager who has not have the privilege to step in class behaves.
First what is a degree as far as education is concerned? We can go further, a degree in what field? In Political engineering of the MMD or in dozing ? Come on Zambians. A degree is not education at all. I Kambongolo consider it as secondary school certificate. If may be you say Masters or PHD I can agree with you Mulongoti not a useless Degree.
Nevertheless you have to distinguish between a Leader and a manager.Leadership qualities are based on inborn wisdom where as managerial qualities are just acquired. That’s why there is no Degree, Masters or PHD in wisdom because it is not acquired but inborn. This means that if a person has wisdom to rule the people it will not matter whether he is educated or not. A leader unveils a vision whereas a manager puts the vision into action.
#44. Thats good statistics. Kindly put the emplyment and poverty levels for 4 presidents and see which one is highest?????
Now look at RB, everything he does there is some hidden agenda or a “CUT”.
This is a serious accusation. My only question to you is if you have this type of information, why haven’t you gone to the proper authorities??
You are not a very patriotic Zambian I see or have you denounced you Zambian citizenship and opted for the Australian citizenship??
Mr. Australian, I would like you to familiarize yourself with laws on defamation of character and worst off, defamation of the president.
Look at Dora, she has a degree but see how arrogant and the behavious she displayed? See Lungwangwa’s behavious. As if they have never been to school.
Kindly explain how people who have been to school behave. I take people as individuals and yet you are telling me I was wrong in doing so. Please clarify how people who have been to school behave.
#46. I know u are MMD. I did not mean literaly that villagers are not people. No.
#50. People who have been to school behave in an honest and think logically. How can someone who has been to school decide to buy hearses instead of medicine for the people. Can you say someone think logically? No.
This does not mean your dull children are more intelligient than that child. Grow up for once.
I do not take ridiculing my blog user name lightly. Kindly provide proof that I made such a claim because to my knowledge, I never said or made a claim like that.
Either back up your statements or shut up.
#53. No fighting here. Just discuss issues and support your arguments with facts.
I agree, only professors for President.
#53 Ba Free Fimo Fimo .Then you are supporting something you do not understand. What this statement means is the person without a degree is not good enough to be president of Zambia. Ludicrous, in my book! Because one has not got a degree then they can not rule.
This is what is killing Africa. Look at my posts above before you start spouting more tripe. Instead of you the educated fightig for those who are not, you are doing the opposite.
Some of you people should have been there in slavery and one could only pray William Wilburforce remained quiet.
#50. People who have been to school behave in an honest and think logically.
If people who have been educated behave in an honest manner and think logically, explain why you are not in full support of a president having a degree because a degree is the proof that the president has been in school and if he has been in school then he is honest and can think logically.
How can someone who has been to school decide to buy hearses instead of medicine for the people. Can you say someone think logically? No.
Educate me here. Who bought the Hearses??? Wasn’t it the ministry of local govt and housing?? If so then that means the Ministry of health is not doing its job by not buying medicine for the people.
#31 ba kizito naimwe i hope twimibika pafinangwa.contribute logically please.Tekubwata fye.
#53. No fighting here. Just discuss issues and support your arguments with facts.
That Ba 3RqU made claims of statements I never made. He/she also attacked me and called my kids “dull” [his statement:This does not mean your dull children are more intelligient than that child.]
First of all, how does he/she know I have children. Second, how does he know whether my children (who I supposedly have) are dull. Where is his/her proof??
The sole purpose of this person is to bait me so he/she can insult me. I am not in the mood for reading insults.
You guys stop the no sense of degrees. Is a degree education? The papers wrtien by you degree holders are a joke. You fail to analysie issues. Let Masters and PHD holders talk. Not ka degree. Shame on you all.
Iwe Free Fimo Fimo stop bullying people. The issue at hand is degree or no degree. Ala! Just because you have benefited or are still benefiting from the MMD does not mean this is right. Like I said, bambi mwalefwaikwa ukufyalwa mu slavery. May be you could have appreciated what segregation means.
Ba 3RqU
I don’t have to read anything you posted except the posts directed to me. You are the one who addressed me. I did not address you but responded to the lies and insults you lashed my way.
#57. Don’t waste my time. If u have benefit from the dirt deals by the so called educated MMDs, one day things will catch up with u.
#63 Free Fimo Fimo. You are conviniently avoiding answering questions. I never insulted you. I do not insult and that s not the way I was brought up. May be limbi ni tripe tamwishibe ifyo ipilibula batata. Ati tapa nsoni batata landenifye. I never insulted you and I did not lie. Giving an example can not be insinuated to mean lies.
Iwe Free Fimo Fimo stop bullying people
You know this habit of you telling lies is getting old. Who am I bullying??
Ala! Just because you have benefited or are still benefiting from the MMD does not mean this is right.
More appeals to emotion. You think by stating I am an MMD beneficiary, that automatically makes my statements wrong. Such a cheap tactic. Address the issue instead of attacking the person making the argument. Stop it with the ad hominems.
Like I said, bambi mwalefwaikwa ukufyalwa mu slavery. May be you could have appreciated what segregation means.
A repeat of my statement (#39): As of now, I do not have a stance on the NCC adopting this clause but I am still in full view that the country needs educated leadership
Chilekwa M. Mumba. Yours is a very thoughtful essay. Degrees or higher education are not in themselves a panacea to bad leadership. We have had educated leaders for the presidency such as Dr. Hastings Kamuzu Banda of Malawi(may his soul rest in eternal peace), and the rest is history now. The constitution should not discriminate against people with minimum requirements to vie for the top job. We should leave this process to the people(voters) themselves to decide who their leader should be. The legacy of Frederick Jacob Titus Mpundu Kafupi Chiluba cannot be used to justify the enacting of such blatant discrimination. What we should be looking at are ways to improve institutions of good governance and probably to limit the powers of a president.
#57. Don’t waste my time. If u have benefit from the dirt deals by the so called educated MMDs, one day things will catch up with u.
You are also doing the same thing. Attacking me instead of addressing the argument I have brought up. Why everyone is doing this is mind boggling o_O
#68. Castro Chiluba was a star when his father was president – Where is he now? The same will happen to you. Because someone is stealing money from government and giving you and u think we are fulls. Just wait and see how the world is.
Free Fimo Fimo let me ask you, why this then?
“A repeat of my statement (#39): As of now, I do not have a stance on the NCC adopting this clause but I am still in full view that the country needs educated leadership”.
This shows you are supposed to keep quiet then. This is blatant discrimination which as a learned man you are supposed to condemn from the start. If you don`t want to, then do not find ways to justify it.
Simples! Compare the market dot com! lol!
#68. Castro Chiluba was a star when his father was president – Where is he now? The same will happen to you. Because someone is stealing money from government and giving you and u think we are fulls. Just wait and see how the world is.
Why are you attacking me?? I have brought up issues and I have not said evil things about you and yet you are still attacking me. I can no longer engage in dialogue with someone that attacks me personally instead of the arguments I bring up.
Good day to you Sir/Madam.
Ba #70. Why not have educated MPs because they are the ones who make laws? Why only the president.
This shows you are supposed to keep quiet then. This is blatant discrimination which as a learned man you are supposed to condemn from the start. If you don`t want to, then do not find ways to justify it.
II am still analyzing the benefits and costs of such a close in the constitution. I am mixed on the issue because I don’t think we need it. We have managed to have degree holders since 2001 as presidents so what would be the point. But I still hold the view that we need educated leadership.
#71 Free Fimo Fimo kabiya we! You can not say you are not sure this should be adopted yet find time to support the same ru b bish.
On your bike son! Off you go! You MMD yamupamba! Even when things are not right kusapotafye!
Free market economist don’t bother with such, these mentally circumsized bloggers do not value education because they have never been in it. From the combonic banter like fimo fimo which frankly rivals chibuku warriors you can tell someone who doesn’t even have good command in english is poorly educated. The emotional instability thats begatting ad hominems is common amongst dundaheads hence why a lot support SATA because to them they see someone on their level. I frankly cannot see why you are even being attacked , to me it looks like prehistoric neardethals trying to reason with Yoda.
#74. Imagine this guy. Some people ine ndafilwa ukubachita understand.
#71 Free Fimo Fimo You can not say you are not sure this should be adopted yet find time to support the same ru b bish.
Geez, what have I been saying I support. Let me dumb it down for you.
Do I support the issue of a president being a degree holder….undecided
Do I support the issue of a president being educated…YES!!!!
EDUCATED and DEGREE HOLDER….very different.
On your bike son! Off you go!
This is a free forum run by the Lusaka Times. I have not broken any policies contained in the Lusaka Times comments policy.
If anyone is to chase me, it is the Lusaka Times and not you. Sorry.
But I will also no longer engage in dialogue with you.
Good day Sir/Madam.
#73 Free please go and analyse. We are different people, but I can tell you that it did not take me 2 minutes to see that this is crap.
I have to apologise if you think I was shouting. You see we are all Zambians. We can not afford to be having such (in my view) in the constitution. Let us sit together, political affiliations aside and put a constitution in place which is going to be there even when my great grand children are born.
For all the time I have been here, I have not seen such things being an issue. Why can`t we learn from these people. Barring an individual will not take us anywhere.
I have to go now. Cheers man! Chill.
Slumdog Shalapungu
I am done with them. I have gone to engage my time doing other things. Thanks for the comment though. 😀
Free-Market-Economist, there you are. Where have you been mune? To tell the truth, I find most of your contributions very objective. And I agree with you on your view though I see it differently. It would be better to have a system that promotes continuity by first starting with having an office for an MP. This office should have assitants who have at least a minimum of a diploma in public administration, social science or equivalent. Having such a base would entail that these assistants should at one time or another vie for office of parliamentarian. One major advantage that has is that they will have been in contact with the grassroot for a long time and will have been involved on developing programmes that benefit the constituency where they would have been operating.
If one was in the UK and they use banter in this context, then I would say they do not know what the word “banter” means. Look it up. It`s nice to use “big words” but please understand what they mean before you use them. Peace. Ba 3 is gone!
#80 Kamunyama. Try that in the UK and see where it lands you! Peace be with you.
Yaba, so much heat on the blogg. 3RqU ati shani mudala wandi? Take a break, have a Kit Kat.
Free-Market-Capitalist: I don’t agree with some of your doctrines but I must say they are very interesting to read. I respect sharp critics more than simple “yes men”, this is what makes a blog lively.
Free-Market-Economis you are right.all the way, Why should we be ruled by “Kaponyas” when we can have quality leadership from Knowledgeable, educated people, like it has been in developed countries. Maybe that’s why we lag so much behind as Africa. Things are changing and we better change with it or remain complainants for eternity
Kamunyama
That is very interesting and I would love to have a discussion with you on what you have written but unfortunately I have to go.
I hope to see you on the blog again soon. There are also a lot of sensible bloggers you can dialogue with and I will just suggest a few of my favorites.
-Nine Chale
-Ba Moze
-Slumdog Shalapungu
-Maestro
-Senior Citizen
-THE SAINT
-FINE!
– Matworld
-Biggie Jim
and there are many others but the above are the ones I like reading contributions from even though I do not fully agree with everything they say.
Until next time…cheers.
Nothing beats “combonic banter” in kabova language. I am enjoying this. I think you win kabova post of the day so far Slum!
#80 cont’d. Such a system would eventually entail that since it always good to go for experienced people (not yappers), one out of those assistants-turn-MP would stand a better chance to make a good president as they will have learnt the art of making decisions that affect all Zambians thru the resaerch they would have been doing at the MPs office. But are we ready to try such a system especially with cadres who queue up to get their share of spoils from CDF for chibuku? So we see that if the condition is shifted towards having someone whose CV reflects a reasonable stint at an MP’s office, it will indirectly & automatically imply that such a one has reasonable qualifications (at least a diploma) to be a president – putting aside amalilisho.
#85 FME, Certainly Nine Chale, Jamaco, Senior Citizen, Slum Dog Shaluz do make objective contributions – which I have often acknowledged. Though one of them on your list is too imposing, ofetn without regard of what an “opinion” is. Cheers mate.
I do not support this idea of Degree holders to be presidential materials pa zed.It is not a Degree holder that can rule and organize Zed, but what matters is interest, dedication and patriotism.Leadership is a gift from God and if you do not have it, then you will rule the Dogs and not people.This is a big lesson RB is going through at the moment.
I don’t agree if the concern is only for SATA. When northerners started putting things in the constitution to bar others it was fine. When the same northerners wanted to remove some of those things to allow some1 to go for a third term, the same SATA was in the forefront. Bembas, just face it, now other pipo are letting you taste your own medicine. This proposal is not well thought out, but so what? They have to use anything to make sure SATA never sees State House. Let SATA die, knowing that other pipo, when in power, can also do like he used to. I don’t care. Anya SATA. Enact anything to stop SATA. We will revist it in the next constitution. Make sure.
please does sata have a degree? can one of you tell….?
These same degree holders ndiye ba kawalala manigi.Let the non degree holders and the degree holders stand for president and then we will choose for ourselves when the time comes.I dont get to understand why some chap comes out of no where and says we need degree holders as presidents!!!!!!!???????
free market fimofimo,sit down and compose yoself.some of us some respect 4 you as a long standing blogger.plz try to see others are able to see.
FTJ had the best crop of eduacated gurus in his cabinet,but what did we achieve at the end of the day?NB:this is not about sata as some are trying to perceive,its the constitution that will fit into zed 2day,and not trying to compare what europeans have achieved thus far.if britain and the US can the luxuary of floating degree holders fo presidency,that shud not directly be the case with us,maybe 100yrs frm 2day.
#91. KIZITO. Your question seems trivial and inconsequential. Its like asking, ‘does Jacob Zuma have a degree?’ LOL.
The topic has already been exhausted by most of you bloggers but my opinion is that a president should have a certain level of education, whether degree or not is not for me to decide. I am a degree holder and i know a lot other people without degrees who are very wise and have good leadership qualities.
Zambians you are very useless and retrogressive people,a degree is a piece of paper,history has proved that educated people have caused more harm when in power compared to the none degree holders.E.G. Milosovic,Mugabe, Bokassa,Papa Doc,Duvalier,Mengistu,PW Botha,Abacha,Manuel Noriega,the list is endless.Enacting such a draconian law is total discrimantion against 99.99% of Zambians without degrees.2 universities,how the fack do you expect pipo to have degrees?The useless government is the reason pipo don’t have degrees,they haven’t built any universities.Useless BLOGGERS in suport are facked up!
BA LT pliz bring us a petition with a provision for bloggers to sign….
Its time to get this issure done with once and for all, no one is going to support this bush****t…! It has to be done now before these MMD NCC thugs can go ahead and implement this nonses..!
I agree with #stripper# the president should have atleast a reasonable level of education, but also we should not forget that not all degree holders are wise, I wont give examples because everyone has an idea in their mind what I mean. May be if they looked at age that may carry weight. A certain age should be considered. If you talk of education, ask the south Africans the education their current president has. Never bothered in class if am not mistaken, but there he is ruling the country.
Let us start with MP’s. minimum requirement must be a degree and see how most of them will shoot the bill. president masters and no one will look at it and if its the last academic qualification-phd, oh no not even the speaker will allow it to be tabled. so you see that the only minimum that is more universal is grade 12 certificate because a person must know how to atleast read and write be it english or our language. a person must have good PA and not just book knowledge and then you say ok he is fit to be president. then zambia is giving you professor Clive Chirwa if you want the trend to continue
Its really sad to note that the degree close is aimed at SATA. How uneducated the educated degree holders can be. You think a degree is great achievement in education oh my foot Zambians. What is a egree. Its nothing…..try masters and PHD. A degree holder is just like a grade 12 certificate holder because both of them have same rational analysis. kwena ati bakolwe balaiseka their bottoms. Why do you fear uneducated SATA??? I think its because he is wiser than you degree holders. He has no degree but you fear him. I faill to understand you useless degree holders.
I’m very much disppointed in some bloggers here to learn that, upto now ,fail to differentiate ,education and leadership.
Leadership is not education,neither is education leadership.
A leader must have education. Look what the illiterate Lil Freddie did to Zambia!
I support those that are calling for signing of petitions, with the rate the NCC is going we will get a very bad constitution because they are not speaking for the majority of Zambians. We need separate petitions for 50+1 vote, Vice President as running mate, Review of Loans in Parliament,Dual Citizenship, Qualifications of the President and other laws which others may think of which have been compromised.
After a long day travelling and settling in Germany, I can now set the pace on this article. Firstly, I have always said that the Undereducate MC Sata is impeding democracy in Zambia. This is because his blind supporters offer so many irrational points just to allow him have a goal at the Presidency of Zambia.
If I did not love Zambia, my beloved country and Nation, I would have asked NCC not to include a clause on educational qualifications for a person to attempt the Zambian Presidency. Sadly, to make such a mistake of allowing illiterates to run ffor the Zambian Presidency is like encouraging CORRUPTION that was rampnat in the Chiluba Administration that the Undereducate Sata participated in fully for 10 years from 1991 to 2001.
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Prevention is better than cure.
How sad that dictatorship which is clearly visible in PF/Sata can be encouraged by allowing illiterates to try being our Zambian Presidents.
Honestly, where did the low formal education of Mr Kaunda KD take or leave us as Zambians save for the failure to have rotation of Presidents of Zambia for 27 years due to dictatorship.
In light of these things, I am asking NCC to put the Grade 12 or better qualification requirement in the Zambian Constitution so that development is not delayed. If the Undereducate Michael Chilufya Sata thinks he needs to offer his services to Zambia, then let him start night school or whatever today so that he can sit for Grade 7 exams later this year and subsequently Grade 9 and 12 ones with time.
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Prevention is better than cure.
#101 Wanyanya, We understand that leadership is not education, but we are not talking about leading friends at school such as a prefect, we are talking about leading a nation and some kind of education is required for that.
Some people may argue that a degree is just a piece of paper, yes, it is but then why doesn’t everyone have it…..it’s because you have to use your brain to earn it. We need a leader who can use their brain effectively and process things on a higher level…..I do not know how many form fives can do that.
I do not mean to insult anyone but we need to be realistic about the people we put into office. Think about having a minister of finance, who just graduated from matero girls…..it will be disastrous!
The Undereducate Sata can then go to college or University to get more qualifications to allow him stand for Zambian President under the new qualification requirements. This is not anything difficult to do. The Bible records that “with God there is nothing that is impossible”. The Undereducate Sata can go to school for it is not too late. Look at former Namibian President Sam Nujoma, he is busy studying in university to equalise on his lost time.He even says that that is just a motivating factor to the young ones to take education seriously, if I remember correctly. At this juncture, it is thus fitting for me to humbly ask the NCC to include a clause of Grade 12 Certificate qualification as a start on the Presidency and remove the 35 yrs 1.
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Prevention is better than cure.
When you look at this topic, we are more than 40 years old as a nation, but very few of you can debate intelligiently. (This is a sign of lack of education). Zambia surely is the real Africa. Zambians are not issue oriented. If you are unable to write a blog, how can you write a petition? Most of you guys here, go to school, you will think better, you will lead better.
107 continued.
[ At this juncture, it is thus fitting for me to humbly ask the NCC to include a clause of Grade 12 Certificate qualification as a start on the Presidency and remove the 35 yrs 1.]
Removing the 35 years minimum age limit barrier on the Zambian Presidency is healthy so that Zambians can take up power at ages like DRC’s President Kabila did for Congo.
Otherwise, I recommend that an age limit maximum barrier be placed at 65 years old so that no one above 70 years old can ever again be President of Zambia.
In a nutshell, let us be honest with ourselves and do what is right for mother Zambia. The misuse of the so-called political experience by the Undereducate bashikulu Michael C. Sata is there for all Zambians to see.
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Prevention is better than…
107 continued.
So, to those who think this Degree requirement is aimed to bar the Undereducate Sata MC, please think again for the Undereducate Micheal Chilufya Sata can still go to school and contest the Presidency of Zambia. Let not emotions override your ability to reason properly. Therefore, if you really want/NEED every Zambian to have it free for all for the Zambian Presidecny, then joinme in calling NCC to remove the 35 years old threshold lower limit on the Presidency of Zambia qualifications so that it is limitless. This will make sure even babies of 1 day/year old can declare interest in running the affairs of Zambia as Presidents.
Have anice day you all and take heed of my noble message.
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Prevention is better than cure.
This is the best article I have seen on LT. Chilekwa M Mumba whoever he is must be given a pa\ermanent spot here.
Presidential debates should be a must in the Zambian campaigns for presidency and let those who pride themselves in degrees market themselds during those debates versus those that pride themselves in performance ,and let the electorate judge who is the best judge.
sorry meant themselves and who is the best candidate,
Maestro,Nujoma didn’t need a degree to become President,you example is out of context,the man is only studying now as a hobby.And what makes you think you own this blog that you are the one to set the pace.Start by telling your undereducated father and uncles to get degrees.Your so called preferred candidate,a Freemasonist is a beneficiary of the same corruption you blame Chiluba for.Elitists the world over have cause hell,so shove your degree and let pipo choose their leader without your educated discrimination.Remember the urban and educated pipo of Zambia are MCS’s main supporters.RB & LPM claim & claimed they got the uneducated vote from rural areas.Sata is self made and educated just like Kaunda,Zuma,Nujoma,the educated are afraid of his popularity.ALUTA CONTONUA!! VIVA SATA!!
14 Mulenga in Newcastle greetings. On your “Maestro,Nujoma didn’t need a degree to become President,you example is out of context,the man is only studying now as a hobby“, I have written before to you that yuor English language is terrible for it is clear that I meant that an old man, even a very old one, can still go to school in my “Look at former Namibian President Sam Nujoma, he is busy studying in university to equalise on his lost time.He even says that that is just a motivating factor to the young ones to take education seriously, if I remember correctly.“.
Thus, please re-read my posting again and ask someone to intepret it for you if you still won’t get the sense. If no one helps, ask me for help again.
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Prevention is better than…
This is discimination of the worst kind you can have all the education in the world and still fail to lead others.How many rich people in the world have uni degrees.?
Maestro #115,I get every posting of yours to the last detail,what you mean is Sata must for go his Presidential ambitions and waist time studying so that your preferred candidate can stand a chance,wailasha mambala it will not happen.Your HH has to work hard,but going by the recent 2 election results next time he will get 2%.Am coming to Germany in August,perhaps we can debate face to face.
Zambians, Zambians, Zambians!!!! What degree? Degree from where? In What? Rocket Science?? It seems you are all obscessed with degrees. You can have as many degrees as they are on a thermometer and still be a bad leader. What we need is leadership… How many useless Zambians degree holders have been in Govt… let me not mention names. You know them eg Andrew Kashita,Lungwangwa, katele kalumba.. What a disaster.!!!… No wonder they areall queing up at dodgy american universities for honorary and other fake degrees…..Even from Bahamas…..???university of ……….hahahahaha, very funny
Imwe mwebalelaka i think you need to get degrees so that you can stop fighting lol
Wisdom does not depend on the chain of degrees one has tucked under his armpits. Even King Solomon the wisest never had a single certificate not even one gotten from Soweto Printing Press. So don’t waste our time discussion irrelevant issues like that.
Wow! i really understand why matters concerning education can be so emotional t some people.
Maestro @ 109 are you serious about the age limit of 65? Zambia’s life expectancy for both males and females is 38 years and about only 2.3% of the Zambian population is more than 65 years of age.
Therefore, because of HIV/AIDS which keeps ravaging the nation, we might need to reduce age for presidential aspirants to about 30 years and not raise it up.
Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit
Wisdom is not to put it in a fruit salad
A degree is proof of knowledge attained but not wisdom.
I must say I enjoyed the comments on this thread, I wish LT could give us more articles like this.
Nindani uyu Chilekwa Mumba? This is a very eloquent and insightful article which has inspired a good debate. I agree with the author on his views. I hope Mulongoti and the NCC reads this. LT can we please use this article for a petition to stop this senseless requirement?
My fellow beloved Zambians, the NCC will produce one of the worst Constitution if the people attending it want to save the MMD govt and not the people who will be affected by their in ability to fight this vise of corruption that the MMD and its govt are promoting by discriminating individuals who they see are a threat to mmd. My first question is, if MMD want someone to have Degree to stand as a president, so as the voters should have a degree . Is this the Zambian constitution we want where discrimination is promoted through the constitution which is suppose to be a driving force to stump out this cancerous.If they put this a clause for standing I see this being challenged in the court of law. We have degrees not that we are born to be leaders to separate from own people.50+1 is wanted
Elyo naufwa what zambians want.
You people got to understand one thing It is impossible for man to please everyone, and its not every decision that will please everyone.
Why don’t firms give any person any position at work? instead they insist on a certain qualification? A presidential post is not, a post for people doing try and error kind of work. Its a very sensitve post. Get me clear having a degree ofcourse doesn’t me that the person can not make errors, no. So long we are human beings we are bound to making mistakes. I expect less from a degree holder, believe me.
Look at how the so called “educated but not degree holders” carry out their campaigns. not logical at all. I’m very much for the idea of having a degree holder president. A degree should be the minimum…
Iye ba russia naimwe mulelandako..
Ba rockert scientist i think you should do another prog. your reasoning is disappointing.surely you must be some of the guys who could not first make it to UNZA and ended having some papers by…
Chilekwa Mumba, i wish that you had also added some qualification that befit a person aspiring for Zambian presidency rather than just dwelling on one part of the proposed constitution. We all understand that a degree is not everything although we also accept that most people with a higher educational level reason a lot better than others.
That’s why when an educated person makes a blander everybody talks about kwati tasambilila, where as when an uneducated person makes a blander people tend to just accept it. In this world we can talk about the likes of Bill Gates that have succeeded despite not having a higher education, but how many more people like him can you count using fingers on both your hand?
Stripper your reasoning is surely fitting of your chosen username-very low. What you are saying is that because they are very few people like Bill Gates, if indeed there is one in Zambia he cannot be president because of a silly law. Please- I do not have my degree (3 Semester from getting it) but even I dismiss this idea that degree holders are superior thinkers. There are may entrepreneurs out there who have made more out of their lives than degree holders.
plz zambians put people with sound academics not kaponyas like sata…?
”Maestro of confusion,” is narrow minded and over opinionated,the Rocket Science makes him daft thinking he flies above everyone on this blog.It surely doesn’t take rocket science to see that what is happening in Zambia is nonsense.99.9999% of Zambians don’t have degrees and some chaps with degrees they’ve failed to apply to good use want to deny others their human right to participate fully in the governance of their motherland.All in the name of a piece of paper.The NCC is composed of people working for the benefit of MMD and not the nation.Imagine Maestro if your father who has no degree wants to become President the law you are supporting will bar him.Do unto others what you would like done to you.MMD is a CANCER that needs to be eradicated.Zambia needs a new order,a…
#128. Dont abuse others. Stripper is a very intelligient contributor. If you have nothing to say, hold your tongue. (A quiet mouth is a symbol of a wise head).
Simply zambia, i am glad u do not know who i am, just go to school, u foooo
#106 Stripper. It`s only in Zambia let alone Afrca that it is difficult to have a degree. If you are in the States you will find that degrees can be easily obtained. And, yes there are loads of them out there.
#121 Nine Chale. Kakali ako. I am also concerned about the whereabouts of the former LT Bloggers
#128 simply Zambia, it was for people like you that i chose my blog name…to confuse you and to just get to your bottonmless level. It’s hard for you to think logically and objectively without being irrational, therefore, continue working hard and good luck, trying to obtain your degree….
#131 Kapupuleti, thank you, i really like your statement in brackets.
Degree in what?There are so many degrees out there.Is it degree in floral arrangement,music,sports,painting,what???? They should specify.Bushe all those without degrees are dull? On the other hand you dont need to go to school to learn/acquire leadership qualities.
#133 3RqU, I know that people can obtain bogus degrees from profit making universities where teachers beg them to do homework. The only problem comes when they present the same degrees to obtain a “proper” job. The employers settle for those who went to authentic schools.
I got my first degree from UNZA and it’s more respectable than those who have degrees that they paid for over here.
#137 Stripper. Thank you. And, what do you say about that intelligient child dropping out because they have no one to sponsor them? Like the post I posted at 10:47 am at #14.
Chilekwa M. Mumba and His fragrance for illiterate Republican Presidency.
Chilekwa M. Mumba,
I respect your enduring political zeal as a seasoned PF cadre always inflamed in hyperventilations when national interest disqualifies Sata. Irrespective of the narcissistic idiom you seem to parrot from literature and shove them here against dynamic thinking patriots advocating for social progress starting with leadership quality upgrade 45 years after independence, your overstretched fragrance for illiterate Presidency is unpatriotic, revisionistic, and driven by a static world view you carry. No dynamic mind can exhibit ignorance that basic education is necessary for a country’s Chief Executive office holders presiding over 12 million plus citizens of diverse potential and interest. The roadmap to total decolonialisation cannot be realized with this passion of…
The roadmap to total decolonialisation and social progress is anchored on universal education of the people. It can never be realized with this passion of illiteracy but continuous improvements to whatever gains in social progress made.
It goes without saying that non-literacy is a devastating liability to persons in any societal disposition for its widespread adoption even in party politics as PF has proved detrimental with a modicum of democratic values. Our time call for a spirit of inventing leadership with qualitative attributes.
The best and ideal defense mechanism of a democracy is a well-educated citizenry starting from the leaders entrusted to rule to the voter. Rewarding illiteracy with Executive office responsibilities is unpatriotic fragrance. It’s time we get educated about what Freedom is and how it is obtained and kept.
Well done Chilekwa M. Mumba. Very nice piece of work. I definitely couldn`t have put it better myself. A constitution should not be discriminatory.
It`s amazing how blacks who an innocent man of God called William Wilberforce fought for day and night to liberate could turn around and support discrimination. Amazing really and yes may be we need grace.
There is something wrong with this skin!
A leader of a nation doesn’t rise so much because of his utopian world view sold through 90 days miracle rhetoric, charisma, and abusive knowledge, but because he represents a rising tide of critical reasoning in the society. E.g. Clinton as an intellectual in the US represented the Baby Boomers. What rising tide do you see your Sata’s leadership representing beyond where MMD the anchor of Democratic and political transformation started in 1990 will have to exit?
Are you implying that we are a static mechanical society with no organic society worldview dynamism to revert to illiteracy 45 years after independence? The country has recorded opportunities and monumental social progress that that those who visioned to rule could not have left themselves from the many opportunities UNIP unleashed on the new nation and onwards until late 80s.
Chilekwa M. Mumba, I hope yu read this and see for yourself how far that continent is from being democratic. My fear is even the so called learned are so discriminatory and yes it`s easy to understand. If all is well with me why bother!
Remember Chilekwa that, even Bob Mugabe has supporters of his own. Idi had people who saw no wrong in what he was doing. A certain queen of Spain cried like a baby when slavery was abolished.
I keep praying for that continent and only God will free us from this. You do not discriminate.
The country has recorded opportunities and monumental social progress that that those who envisioned to rule could not have left themselves from the many opportunities UNIP unleashed on the new nation and onwards until late 80s.
The nation cannot be held at ransom when it comes to the national vision for a transformed Zambia starting with the political structure constitutionally.This is where some us positivists become become structural functionalists in positive sense. Henceforth after 45 years of independence, basic education should be a prerequisite for candidates keen to Preside over the nation executive affairs.
In the UK, and some other developed countries, there is nothing like “he failed his exam” in primary and secondary school. Once a child starts school, they are guaranteed to finish and atleast obtain O levels. I may be detached but the last time I checked, children in Zambia were still doing exams in year 7 and 9. The fees are beyond many villagers. Unless you are heartless like a few people here, you can not therefore talk about basic education.
To compare the UK or the States to Zambia is like compairing a Bentley BMW to a Toyota Corona which has been pimped.
Amazing in indeed!
# 150 3RqU, what’s wrong with you? Even managerial jobs you need certain qualifications to get them, shouldn’t that apply to presidency? You are the people who want to base your promotion on how long you have been with a company instead of how qualified you are. A president should have an acceptable level of education period. Sata needs to go to school. His behavior is a typical example of how much of a fontini he is.
#151 Musimbi. This is what happens when you do not understand the topic and you just join in.
Do me a favour, read the title of this article and see my posts.
I am against outright discrimination. Why don`t developed countries have this?
The BNP don`t like blacks, they hate Asians, they do not like foreigners yet they have councillors! Think!
#151 Musimbi “A president should have an acceptable level of education period. Sata needs to go to school. His behavior is a typical example of how much of a fontini he is”.
This is the problem with Africans. This constitution is not about Sata, it`s about human rights.
For sarters you have to realise that basic education is not readily available in Zambia let alone Africa. It was bad some years back and unfortunately, it is worse now. If one has no money then kaya!
Stop being heartless.
As Ba3Rqu says ,I do not think Chilekwa Mumba wants to discuss Sata or else he would have said so. The key issue here is discrimination. Unfortunately as he put it- the self-important graduates have taken offense because they lack education. Mumba is simply saying this law is discriminatory, I like what Ba3Rqu has said about Wilberforce. Silly and indeed uneducated bloggers are simplifying this article to mean Sata. Read the whole article and see its main point.
3RqU, I have read the entire article and understand what it is all about…Some people on the blog think that the proposed clause in the new constitution is aimed at barring Sata from standing hence my blog at # 150. You seem to be emotionally charged at this clause, talking about discrimination and staff like that, are you crazy to be fighting to have a president who cannot think. What being heartless are you thing about? What the country is trying to implement is a clause that will in the long run help your childrens children and their children. I am sorry i fyou have plans to stand as president soon, or ur relative wants to stand, just get an education and thats it…otherwise we will not allow your grade seven brother to rule us.
What discrimination are you guys talking about, I don’t get? Every job has rules and qualifications to be met before you can get it otherwise just get a stand at the market and sell your mechandise…even then you will need to be able to account for your goods in an educated manner, otherwise no profits for u. Why mukalipa kansi.
Musimbi- the office of president is NOT a private enterprise. It is an office which every Zambian who is of recommended age should be able to aspire for by birth right, and the decision left to the electorate as to whether or not they see someone as fit. That is narrow thinking to say “every job” has qualifications. You cannot compare the presidency to a job- even the author Mumba has said so. Not even the progressive nation of the US has this silly law as Zambians themselves will determine who qualifies. You think having a degree makes you more Zambian than the next person- silly thinking.
For Musimbi again, I like the part which reads:
. You are failing to think this through properly. The presidency is an institution which should not be looked at in such simplistic terms. The few self-important “graduates” who are supporting this frivolous proposal have a very uneducated view of life and need to be schooled in what attributes befit the qualification of a leader.
This line is for people like you. Can you please rethink and realise that you do not apply for being President the way you apply for your corporate/customer service job. You lack knowledge to see that the office of President is unique. Tell me which powerful nation in the world has this silly requirement.
This was one helluva an article. Kudos Mumba!
#156, Musimbi, i think you seem a lot backward in terms of qualifications. who told that the presidential candidate in Zambia has no qualifications whatsoever? look at the constitution and u will see that the candidate must first be a zambian citizen by origin or descent, he/she must possess a grade 12 certificate, he/she must be 35 and above, must not criminal records, must be qualified to be a member of parliament etc. so unless you say such are not enough qualifications. let me cut and paste the qualifications as they appear in the const for your digestion.
Article 34:
(3) A person shall be qualified to be a candidate for election as President if-
(a) he is a Zambian citizen;
(b) both his parents are Zambians by birth or descent;
(c) he has attained the age of thirty-five years;
(d) he is a member of, or is sponsored by, a political party;
(e) he is qualified to be elected as a member of the National Assembly; and
(f) has been domiciled in Zambia for a period of at least twenty years.
(4) A candidate for election as President (hereinafter referred to as a Presidential candidate) shall deliver his nomination papers to the Returning Officer in such manner, on such day, at such time and at such place as may be prescribed by or under an Act of Parliament.
here comes the simple educational qualification which i put as a grade 12 certificate. You can see that a person to be qualified to the office of president, you need to be literate and conversant with the official language =akasungu chapwa and this is much better than soliciting for degrees.
64. Subject to Article 65, a person shall be qualified to be elected as a member of the National Assembly if-
(a) he is a citizen of Zambia;
(b) he has attained the age of twenty-one years; and
(c) he is literate and conversant with the official language of Zambia.
If Mulongoti, teta and faustina want a president with a degree, then we will require that they possess a BSc, LLB/BA combination from UNZA not american universities and not even AIBIT. twakana. and the degree must be a merit or distinction for that matter. then we will be talking like this chap Musimbi wants
not even an MBA like RB and i dont even know where he got it. also the president if you want him/her to have a minimum of a degree must have got the degree in the first attempt and under regular education and not by correspondence. the degree must have seen this chap vying as a president to be applied not just hanged in the picture frame.
or if all the proponents for the kateka to have a degree want it, then he/she must either possess the qualifications i posted earlier on or must have an MBBS from school of medicine and must have passed it in the first attempt. lets see how many people are going to apply.
and not only a BSc in biology but a double major of courses like mathematics (real analysis) and chemistry (physical chemistry) or geology.
#156 Musimbi. “You seem to be emotionally charged at this clause, talking about discrimination and staff like that, are you crazy to be fighting to have a president who cannot think”. This says it all! You are dim Musimbi! I have had respect for you but not any more. I know who you are. You are a coward to have decided to post under a different screen name.
It will be interesting to see what amendments will be final to the constitution and i hope a certain level of education will be a requirement. That’s just my opinion, and we are all just opinionated.
Yes, while I agree that Maphunzilo help to enhancing thinking, people who have had an impact on the world stage in business and in politics have had no degrees. Bill Gates dropped out of Harvard in 1995, but that has not stopped him from conquering the world in business. Watch this
“172 years of ‘politics’ in Texas and 162 years of ‘political’ association with the USA has our beloved homeland in a mess. The founding fathers of Texas did not intend for the ‘peoples’ government to be run by professional politicians, nor did the founding fathers of the USA. Formal backgrounds and formal education for the purpose of politics are agenda-driven based perversions of what these founding fathers intended and are the antithesis of a goal of ‘good governance’. “
Continued….
“It was never the purpose of a government of the people and more importantly a government ‘BY’ the people to be ruled over by a special class or caste of select individuals who could rule by ‘special’ education or special knowledge.
We are witnesses to the failures of these formal-background, agenda-driven politicians”
Any comments??
Correction….
Bill Gate dropped out of Harvard in1975
#172 naiwe chinja ka picture, aka kafitisha otherwise your comments are bright……just a joke.
any way, we need a person who will help lift the sufferings of zedian pip wether this person holds more than 1 degree or not. after all we have protorypes of presidents with more degrees yet the countries they are ruling are in shambles- Mugabe to be specific.
Because mental power cannot, as Herbert Spencer said, “be got from ill-fed brains,” formal education is important to a person’s success and happiness. This does not mean, however, that schools are the only source of education, but they are, as Senator John W. Fulbright put it, “the primary organized source in modern societies.” The records, both current and past, abound with challenging examples of men and women who, by persevering self-study, planning, and hard work, achieved outstanding success in their chosen fields of endeavor. Sir Winston Churchill, one of the world’s great leaders in the last quarter of a century, told a Boston audience some years ago: “I have no technical and no university education, and have just had to pick up a few things as I went along.”
# 174 Kwathukummawa-Though you have invoked Spencer’s rational case for knowledge, I find your entry in # 174 somehow ambiguous especially that the issue before hand is a progressive call to end a culture of rewarding illiteracy to preside over our top Executive office affair 45 years after independence. Good that you see sense in the theory of Spencer who like Comte and Georg Simmel not only influenced social progress but also was part of the social and intellectual forces that has created a mark on society. Change in the west came amongst many with the emergence of academic professionals, modern varsities and positivism or scientific orientation besides industrialization, urbanization and religion. Thus we cannot be entrusting our public affairs to illiteracy at this age.
Many of the greatest men in American history did not have the benefit of a formal college education, but they were, nevertheless, among the best educated men of their times. They were men who used their spare time, and every opportunity, to cultivate their minds – they were eager for knowledge, and forever kept on learning. They were self-educated,
Failures always look for excuses to beat their way into a system. One such excuse is to design discriminatory schemes that favour themselves to eliminate competition, the easiest being a special class or caste of select individuals who could rule by ’special’ education or special knowledge.
#175 Senior Citizen
While in Zambia, years ago, I attended a course in Pedagogy at TVTC. I was taught that Education can either be formal or informal. Therefore a self educated candidate does not fit your “a culture of rewarding illiteracy to preside over our top Executive office affair 45 years after independence”.
Bear in mind that democracy is a government of the people and more importantly a government ‘BY’ the people.
I repeat: Formal backgrounds and formal education for the purpose of politics are agenda-driven based perversions of democracy and are the antithesis of a goal of ‘good governance’.
Let the people decide who to lead them by votes. You and I have no right to stop all legible Zambians from exercising their right to participate in the governance our…
correction..
You and I have no right to stop all eligible Zambians from exercising their right to participate in the governance of their nation
119 Mulenga in Newcastle Your Maestro #115,I get every posting of yours to the last detail,what you mean is Sata must for go his Presidential ambitions and waist time studying so that your preferred candidate can stand a chance,wailasha mambala it will not happen is much better data and >I am glad that you spend time trying tp figure out my writings. Such cadreship is what is need and keep it up.
On your issue of meeting me in personal you are welcome.
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Prevention is better than cure.
129 Mary greetings. Your “Ba rockert scientist i think you should do another prog. your reasoning is disappointing.surely you must be some of the guys who could not first make it to UNZA and ended having some papers by” is ill-motivated. I am a UNZA graduate from the School of Natural Sciences. I read Physics and this is how I became a Rocket Scientist.
Enjoy yourself and keep cool instead of becoming an open liar on this blog.
On your issue of meeting me in personal you are welcome.
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Prevention is better than cure.
133 Mulenga in Newcastle. Your “Imagine Maestro if your father who has no degree wants to become President the law you are supporting will bar him.Do unto others what you would like done to you.” is nothing for it would have been great if my late father was around and wanted to stand for President of Zambia. He would have had to go to University to get a Degree though he was a college graduate.
Let the Presidential and Parlimentary seats qualifications be fast upgraded to Grade 12 Certificate as basic, but University Degree or better as others have alluded to.
On your issue of meeting me in personal you are welcome.
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Prevention is better than cure.
# 181 Maestro though I normally don’t agree with you I follow your postings.I have a degree in Business and People Management.I bet in your thinking I must be the best candidate.I can manage business and people!! Any one with Rocket science or Engineering or Accounts is out of question!!
Kwanukummawa,-Your sycophancy as a loyal PF cadre aside, h
ow I wish you tried for a moment to separate the empirical world from the conceptual universe constructs. The concepts can never completely capture the empirical world, but they can be used as heuristic tools for gaining a better understanding of reality driving this call for a constitutional progress about to be recorded.
# 183 Kwathukumawa is a very reasonable and rational blogger,you are on this blog using jargons which even your crazy self do not understand.What does the empirical world and conceptual universe constructs have to do with this debate.Going by your name Senior Citizen I expected more from you.True Senior Zambian citizens who liberated our land didn’t even have grade 12 but still governed better than MMD full of Doctors & Professors.Supporters of Elitism like you have brought havoc in this world,by always advocating for things that benefit only a handful of people.You should be ashamed!
Kwena ba Senior Citizen- you’re too funny, we can all speak and write in english, yet some language is not for this fora. You think using all that “extra” gives weight or meaning to your statements? You’re writing nonsense, camouflaging it with the words you are googling or using an online thesaurus. Goodness- no one even speaks or writes like that even if they have 10 PHDs. Teti mutitinye batata- uko! Take it down a notch.
Just had to comment on Senior Citizen. But really a degree as a requirement is discriminatory.
Furthermore Senior Citizen- you seem to think this issue is about Sata and PF. If you read the essay carefully, the author put that argument aside and elevated it to a case of unnecessary discrimination. You are just coming back with unintelligent long statements with Sata squeezed in between as your defence. It is NOT about Sata- get that through the muddle of words in your head. If you believe that all Zambians are equal by birthright, putting such hurdles is discriminatory. You think us Zambians will fail to distinguish btn a totally incapable person from a plausibly good candidate using the ballot? Only a dull person believes a dull person can be president.
Senior Citizen,
I have been a technical expert, in my area of speciality and a trainer for many years. From the comments you have been posting, I can tell how shallow your thinking is and to be honest with you, I will not hesitate to advise you to go back to school. Your so-called education this far is a waste. Communication dictates that one avoids jargon to ensure that the target audience understands the message they are putting across. Your use of jargon exposes your inferiority complex. You think that you will excite your audience by using “BIG WORDS”. Only REAL ILLITERATES sink that low.
You arguments lack substance and are clearly subjective and shallow. Who doesn’t knows that MMD destroyed the financial control systems Kaunda left in place to make it easier for them to…
Senior citizen @ # 183, what are you trying to say?
Musimbi- glad to see you’re back. Did Chinsali Inc beat you with the debate? I was awaiting your comeback.
Mulenga Newcastle & Kwanukummawa,
I understand your pain as cadres that comes with the fact that a progressive society has resolved to move forward. Irrespective of your narrow interest our national cnstitution is taking a symbolic clause that social progress must not be exclusive of quality leadership.I don’t think your insults on me changes any goal post or swings the pendullum in favor of illiteracy come 2011.Positive discrimination is both patriotic and democratic and must applauded.We can thank God that MMD has the legislative number to keep moving the nation forward than your static cadre loyalty.
Meaningful change will continue coming with an educated society driving it. Henceforth Zambia deserves a President with atleast with some basic education combined with some work based skills .Its a crime to hold the nation at ransom to illiteracy 45 years after independence on the basis of narrow partisan interest serving those found to be allergic to democracy and self improvement.
Mulenga Newcastle & Kwanukummawa,
You are unpatriotic, myopic self seeking sycophants desperate to hold a dynamic democracy to ransom.Take the clause to courts, tribunals or in all blogs you can dream about, Zambia will be making her landmark constitutional progress.You can rehearse all insults or pull your tongue out sweeping every floor with lungs inflated in calling for a reward for illiteracy, nothing will slow this popular and motivating call.Our children must henceforth learn than there is no reward for illiteracy.
Mulenga Newcastle & Kwanukummawa,
Even Obama is calling on mothers who did not finish their education to return back to school. But here you are worshiping illiteracy and insulting those calling for standards in the country.You must be ashame and guilty of slave mentality.You are immediate danger to the future of your families whom i presume you deny education.
Even Obama is calling on mothers who did not finish their education to return back to school. But here you are worshiping illiteracy and insulting those calling for standards in the country’s leadership. You must be ashamed and guilty of harboring a slave mentality. Believe you me; you chaps are immediate danger to the future of your families whom I presume you deny education.
#189 Kadoli, when you debate with a person who does not understand, the best is to just let them continue….
This is why some of us often ignore those of you identified to hold wishdful dreams that a progressive constitution means curving in to every individual narrow interest. The embattled political party zealots will always be narrow minded and driven by fantasy.The best we can do is accommodate their wishful time on any platform as they await the real world to confront them.
Senior Citizen, Thank you for wasting LT blogging space. I will respect your views and let ordinary Zambians decide through the electoral process in 2011.
All these “Maureen this, Magande that, Mobile Hospitals to delay treatment, Hearses to promote death, Tetamashimba the paymaster for Solwezi Council, etc will all come back to haunt you.
One of us will definitely have the last laugh.
I think that having a BA/BS is should be a requirement for President in Zambia. That would be a motivating factor in Zambia for whoever is running for a President. Please they should not obtain degrees from Matero University. From International and regional recognized Baccalaureate institution. Govt should make sure that the each of 6 provinces except Lusaka and Copper belt and Central that has no university make sure that do have one or upgrade existing teacher colleges to university level by increasing the faculty and study options apart from Education.. Laupula University, Kalindawalo University in Eastern Province. Lubemba land University in Kasama, Livingstone University in the southern province, Barotse University in Lealiu or limulunga, Lumwana university in North western.
I 100% agree with the writer, if having a university degree is a requirement to be president, one will ask what kind of a degree are we talking about? Some people have degrees in Sound engineering (DJ’s), Bar tending, my university here in Canada even has a degree in Hair dressing!! So tell me how does a hair dresser fair with a person who has a degree in political science? So this whole nonsense about degrees is just a waste of time and its discriminatory. Why just look at an undergraduate degree why didn’t Mulongoti raise the bar to Masters or even PhD? is it because he knows his president doesn’t have that? We need leaders with a plan in state house not corrupt degree holders, who probably cheated in their exams.
“why didn’t Mulongoti raise the bar to Masters” Quote
#199 shocked
-Get to know now onwards that Hon.Mulongoti holds a BA Political science and MPA.Besides these, he is almost done with his LLB degree while you are still busy blogging insulting and chasing the winds.Hon.Tetamashimba holds an LLB.Incase you don’t know a LLB its a law degree. This is why late Mazoka settled for him and recall his exponential gains politically nation wide. Are’nt shocked that he literally parred with Mwanawasa leaving Sata at 1.3% national vote?
Senior Citizen and Musimbi- TAKE A LOSS. You have failed to substantiate your silly belief. If you even have degrees the author was referring to you as self important graduates. Id!ots.
#200- Bwana
Thanks for the info. Now you tell me, why is it so hard to believe that Mulongoti/Teta have those qualifications? I am certainly surprised that Mulongoti went to school and got an MPA as 90% of the time he speaks it is nonsense, remember even Mwanawasa wanted to shut him up.Their behavior is certainly uneducated. But then this article has already said said “you can pay for tuition but you cannot buy true education”.
Do you people listen to advice or just skim through it? Reread the posting.
Chi Chinsali uli shilu
Iwe #173 Che Guavara, Uko ku China, tuma picture machine nitwambili, bwanji kundikumbukako ine mzako. I surely need to change ka picture. Aka kanyanya kufipa mwe. Even though I am naturally true black, closer to amorphous carbon, but aka keve, kapitilila.
Some people on here are just more than thick. How many times are we going to say you can not compare the States, UK and other dveloed countries to Zambia. Zambia onlly has two universities. There are no benefits or no social services in place. If an old woman decided to start sudying for a degree here or in America, you know they would have the support of the government in almost everything. Abantu bamo, even when they are in America, they don`t learn. Do you people even go out?
There are kids who despite having met the entry requirements to UNZA could not be given bursaries. Carry on compairing America to Zambia.
I have never in my whole life met a properly educated person boasting about their academic accomplishments. Only Grade 12s do that. I remember when I first went into Senior Secondary school carrying a physics text book by Abbot with a view to scare the juniors. And it was exciting at that level. Such was and should be the mentality for people with low levels of education.
At my level now, I respect people who are self taught because they must have very high self determination, commitment and focus to achieve what they have. In fact, all higher level education is research based which is more of what the self taught individuals have done all their life. That certainly requires a higher level of intellect to structure the thoughts into acquiring such higher levels of knowledge.
sata nyoko should also just go to school and get it ata..we are never too old for sku
Interesting debate. Unfortunately, a lot of contributions have come from well educated people with a very warped view of reality. Perhaps people have been away from Zambia too long and rely on the media for information. Remember anything said in the media should be carefully scrutinised. Use whatever analytical skills your degree has helped you achieve. FACT: Degree story in the constitution aimed at Sata. Saw some interesting stats given by free whatever he calls himself. Those numbers don’t matter if you can not see what is on the ground. Forget this degree story. Important thing is to clip the wings of the president so he does not have power to do as he pleases. Make him/her accountable and make provisions for him to be removed from power at least by his party like the ANC did with…