LUSAKA lawyer, Rodger Chongwe has said it was nonsensical and embarrassing for the Law Association of Zambia (LAZ) to suggest that his judgment should be registered locally because Zambia is a signatory to the United Nations Human Rights Treaty.
Speaking in an interview from West Australia, Dr Chongwe said yesterday that since Zambia was signatory to United Nations Human Rights Treaty, there was no need to register judgments passed by the United Nations Human Rights Tribunal with the Zambian courts before executing them.
He said judgments which required to be registered were those obtained in individual countries such as the United Kingdom.
“I did not register to the Zambian courts, the Government is aware why. I have the right to go to the UN Tribunal because my country is a signatory and its judgment is not bound to the Zambian courts. There is a difference. It is better for LAZ to understand issues before commenting because these are national matters,” he said.
He said it was not true that the Zambian Government was not represented during proceedings because after judgment was passed, the Government applied to the UN to have it reviewed but the application was rejected.
But LAZ president, Steven Lungu maintained his earlier stance on the registration of Dr Chongwe’s judgment and wondered how else it could be enforced if not registered locally.
“If Dr Chongwe insists that there is no need for registration, then it’s his opinion. I am not misleading the nation, and what LAZ is not comfortable with is the fact that he is involving the president. This is wrong, we have the Ministry of Justice to deal with such matters,” he said.
Dr Chongwe said it was nonsensical and embarrassing for LAZ to suggest that his judgment should be registered locally because the treaty signed was between the UN and Zambia.[quote]
He said the Government should pay him because he was not the first one who would be awarded damages without having the judgment registered locally, claiming that many Zambian convicts who dragged their cases to the UN Tribunal had been awarded damages or had their capital sentences replaced with life imprisonment.
“In 1998, Chiko Bwalya was awarded damages by the Zambian Government after he won the case under the UN Tribunal. His case was not registered, so why should people raise eye-brows over my case? It’s probably they are not studying the cases, these judgments are different as well as their verdicts,” Dr Chongwe said.
The Government should not claim that it was not represented when it had even written to the UN Tribunal requesting to have the order re-opened but the tribunal rejected the request.
Dr Chongwe said then attorney general, Bonaventure Mutale had written to the Zambian Government to support the decision of the UN Treaty and asked it to pay him and this was copied to the UN in Geneva and the International Bar Association.
He said this did not raise any contentions at that time and it was only that the payment was not effected. He saw no reason why the contention should be raised now because the figure had risen.
Dr Chongwe was claiming for US$2.5 million plus interest of $700 per year since 2000 when the verdict was passed in his favour.
The claim results from a shooting incident which happened in Kabwe in 1997. He advised Mr Lungu and people who wanted to understand international law to consult professional international lawyers.
[Times of Zambia]
Bwana Chongwe naimwe, that foreign judgement needs to be registered in Zed and is not necessarily enforceable. Boma does not have have that kind of money to pay an individual! Besides, you were not the only chap who was abused by Kafupi, others suffered far more torture and pain than yourself…
Give what belongs to owners
As sad as the incidence was, I feel the amount of money involved here is too much considering that it the poor zambian’s tax money. Honestly, shouldn’t there be a cap when it comes to government spending? Culprites behind such crimes are the ones supposed to cough the dough and not an institution. I don’t know what my fellow blogger’s take is on this one
Bwana Chongwe is right, this LAZ is an institution of misleading and fortune seekers lawyers, this proffession is becoming a let down in this country, its not easy to get a judgement in Zambian courts.
Kweena is that how tax payers money will be used pa Zed?? PLiz pipo be practicle.There are a lot of problems in zambia which need to sorted out using tax payers money.No medicines in hospital and clinics.Poor education standards and poor road network.???? Lets save zed by not allowing selfish pipo getting our monies.
I think we need a comprehesive statement on this issue from the government to much speculation at the moment.To many figures being quoted,Now it is $2.5 million with interest of $700 dollars per year for ten years the inetrest adds up to $7,000 dollars.Bringing the total amount owing to $2,507,000. How did it come upto $5.9 million or $6.7 million.Too many figures to much confusion ,these are moments that RB misses to show true leadership.True leadership is appreciated in times of crisis and confusion,not when everything is okey.So government please show leaderhip by giving the correct position and figures,.
Anyway, abena HERB nabena balilufyanya. He must be voted out, this man. If he can encourage a dying minister to include his son in a will, what about the national resources? Balya money uku!
Instead of jostling for compensation and punishing the poor, Dr Chongwe should consider laying charges against the ‘damn good leader’ Kafupi whose despicable regime was responsible for atrocities on numerous Zambians who suffered infirmity and early death. Zambians are still pursuing Chiluba for his wanton plunder of their resources. He can do the same especially that he does not have immunity from prosecution.
We have seen what is happening to Tiger Woods? He is married to a white woman just as Rodger Chongwe. Could be he is also under pressure from the Dona? KK accepted K500m for the same incident so what makes my good lawyer that his life is more precious than KKs.
The problem with telling a lie is that you are likely to forget what you said the last time you openned your mouth! When you say the truth however, you hardly have to think more than once to say something because the facts will not change from the last time you spoke! Govt through the Ministry of Justice and its agencies should have been sincere in the first place and saved us the embarrasment of having to go through this mediocrity! Chongwe might be a Good lawyer but he is much more of a selfish politician who has chosen to throw away his morals just to feed his once big belly! Does that man have a heart for countless Zambians who would not have access to education, health, clean water and even food because he would be unfairly getting so much for a Kalonda that healed sooner than…
In the spirit of good faith let Chongwe donate the money to the people of zambia what is the difference between him and Vulture Funds?
These are the misdeeds of Chilubas now affecting the whole treasury. And we still have pay USD 8 Million to Chiluba. What happened to the cops that pulled the trigger?
This guy Chongwe has no shame! If he is a smart guy let him make the $6.5m in a decent way other than cooking stories . After-all their has never been proof that the guy was shot. Is he broke?
Dr. Chongwe has a point. He should consider himself very fortunate to have succeeded in bringing his case before the UNHRC – but what about the thousands of violated humans who have not been able to?
#10 Kandisnky, thats very true,they have been caught in their own lies and everyone is trying to remember what they said,but again the other problem with lying is that they have to tell some more lies to cover up for the first ones,so its a cycle…and kafupi is s.h.t.i.n.g himself,that once this is registered,then the pressure will be on for his case to be registered as well and there’s only one man in the middle of it all RB
My question: does the Human Rights Treaty guarantee a comprehensive compensation concept for ALL citizens of its member countries?
If the answer is YES, then I see the government paying this man sooner or later.
Zambia at CROSSROADS again. RB and Georgwe Kunda are to blame once again.
This was a loophole through which both RnB and Chongwe thought they would dive. Had it not been for The Post, this would have been a done deal by now. Meanwhile the former has remained mum on registering the London judgment.
Well, the interprentation by Dr Chongwe sounds logical and equally that of LAZ Boss, however who is truthfull in the understanding and interprentation of Law in this particular matter. Lawyers please help us on this, it leaves some of us with little understanding of law lost in the whole debate. Though i should point out that the amount involved is quite collosal.
# 19 you are right and I don’t think we have a lawyers amongst the bloggers or their understanding of the case at hand is shallow. On the other hand I just love it when lawyers ague cases against each other! The pomp with which they try to show that they are more learned than the other! Chongwe advised Mr Lungu and people who wanted to understand international law to consult professional international lawyers.!
Mwila you are right..
#19 and 20 Even among thieves there is honour. Its not a case of us no being lawyers it is all about the way this issue has been handled by our government. When a lawyer behaves in a suspicous way you dont need to be another lawyer to be wary of such a lawyer. Common sense prevails above every thing. Its like saying a computer is cleverer than a human when we know that it was created by a human to act like a human brain.
The most Chongwe could do is to partener with other victims of circumstances as his to come up with enforceable ideas and strong ,legal bodies if not force govt to strengthen our own agencies/commissions dealing with issues such as these! VSU, Poliice Service, Judicial Service and other complaints commissions and even our courts ought to be able to take on such issues without fear or favour. Chongwe with his academic/ theoretic law ought to be a champion of this. Does he know that not even the families of the victims of Lockerbie or 9/11 ever got such abnormal amounts?!
From 22- Only a fool can allow a Shibukombe to show him how to sleep with a wife by doing it his future wife. Even if Iam not lawyer I cannot just follow blindly.
I have every reason to believe Dr Chongwe has given the correct account of events.What compounded the stuation was lack of cooperation from the then govt and their propensity to silence opponents.Its a fact Chongwe fled the country coz Kafupi was after his precious life.Thanx to the Zim and SA intelligence tha he is alive today.
This Chongwe wants to reap where he did not sow. How much more important is he than KK to refuse the K500 million that government offered to him in the first place? KK received it with both hands. But bwana chongwe wanted to steal from poor Zambians. Let him be assured that he will not get any amount more than the K500 million.
ALL THIS IS BECAUSE OF RECKLESS AND DANGEROUS SCHEMES by kafupi and sata. the nation will now have to spend huge sums of tax payers money.
No. 12 has a good question: what happened to the cops that pulled the trigger? Someone somewhere has to go to prison or pay the $5.9million not we the innocent and poor taxpayers!
May be to say that Chongwe is academic or theoretic is an underestimation of the man’s abilities/achievements but what is clear is what he ought to do! More important than his being a lawyer is that at the time of the shooting he was a politician and claiming to be ready to forego all he had or even die so that Zambia becomes a better Country! What if the man was in power now or just after the shooting? What price tag would he have put on his injured CHEECK? Dear Lawyer, live what you preached that day in Kabwe! Revive LPF and speak for the people that are not as priviledged to have relations with the President so that what happened to you does not happen to anyone today, tommorrow or any other time in Zambia’s history. We will respect you more then.
Lets stop being jealous! Chongwe is entitled to that money whether it is a lot or not. As he points out, Zambia is a signatory to an international human rights treaty so the UN Tribunal does have jurisdiction. If Lungu were honest he would show integrity by agreeing that he got it wrong. I have mentioned a number of times on this site how inept LAZ under Lungu have been. They are always on the backfoot with legal positions. They are toothless and only serve to give commentary on issues – they do not DRIVE change.
Back to subject at handle, this case is straight forward. Regardless of the amount, Chongwe’s life is worth more than $6m, he should ask for double. The whole idea of the judgement is it should be punitive. Lloyds has recently been fined over £300m for breaching int sanctions…
This ka FTJ has really proved to be very costly to the people of Zambia. Not only a Lazo, but a murderer! I wish someone could follow-up Bodwin Nkumbula’s questionable accident. Ben Mwila’s nephew’s testimony should be re-examined. This Kafupi did more harm than good.
# 3 Moderator says: Absolutely correct your observation is! Anybody who wants can go read the responsibilities of the office of the Zambia Republican President, it does not include prejudicial murder of innocent civilians merely for exercising their birth right of freedom of association, a right enshrined in our own constitution Kafupi swore to adhere to. He is the one who should be made to pay for trying to kill Chongwe and for the murder of Baldwin, Ngenda, Penza, Wezi, Kaulung’ombe etc. That little devil’s acts will haunt us for a long time to come and as long as we do not exorcise ourselves from his ghost by locking him up, we shall continue to suffer.
And another point, why is the post constantly giving Patrick Mwanawasa airtime????? So his father was President – so what!? He has not earned the right to moralise on us. I have in the past supported Patrick when he has stood up for his fathers honor, but i think now he needs to prove his SELF worth and not hold on to his fathers legacy (Which, if we are truly honest, is mediocre at best – perhaps if he had had more time). FTJ has over 10 children, should we be reading their opinions everyday as well? KK? Whats special about Patrick? If he can answer that question, then he may gain entry into the political arena that he so obviously craves.
I think Sata, Shikapwasha, Miyanda, Ben Mwila and Chiluba himself should be brought before the courts to answer for this crime because it was at their behest that Chongwe was nearly killed in cold blood. Especially Miyanda, it was him on that fateful day who was acting president and I cannot believe, no matter how overzealous, a simple policeman can pull the trigger at KK without being ordered to do so by a higher authority. Even if this were the case, it will amount to serious abrogation of duty on the part of whoever had the instruments of power in their hands on that day and in this case is was no other than that satanic demagogue failed “one star corporal Godfoolish Miyandering”.
Government should not pay this money . the country doesn’t have that kind of money to give to one person.l think mr.chongwe should try to get a zambian jugdement if the government is to pay him any compesation.Rupiah should use that money for something big like build the hospital.
3 & 32. Unfortunately FTJ cannot be made to pay because Chongwe sued the Zambian Government. It was state machinery at play, albeit under hefty jays instructions. They used Zambian civil service (shu shu shus) and government equipment. Punishing government and not FTJ means there will be an awareness of collective responsibility. Civil servants should refuse to execute orders that are not aligned to our constitution. Oh, and you forgot Paul Tembo. That little thief FTJ belongs in a zoo. Maybe we could attract international tourists to come and watch him in his pink suits and high heeled shoes – he does afterall behave like a monkey so he would not need much practise.
I think Mwanawasa’s son is a fresh breath of air, he comes accross more sensible than Bwezani, Shikapwasha, Mulongoti and Dora put together. As for Chiluba’s children, most of whom “ba mufyani, fyonse finangwa” and are all incapable of saying anything sensible enough to deserve publication in any newspaper be it government or Post.
The Rodger Chongwe issue has possibly greater consequencies than the govt seems to care about! Next we are going to see Siulapwa, Cosmo, Lukuku and a lot more other small one-man party leaders organise a provocatively illegal gathering, have the nails of their index fingers damaged and demand compensation! Chongwe was a politician and can not claim a loss of income or even popularity because there have been no less than three Presidential and Parliamentary elections in which he could have proven his popularity and reduced the loss on his part! May be this is the logic LPM used to come up with USD60K. Chongwe is not sacred or special. He could have lost income anyway because more and more people are becoming lawyers and perfecting their art!
#26 Kambongolo
Your contributions are always without substance. You must be a daft PF kaponya. If KK accepted K500million and Chongwe opted to take the matter up to the UN which has ruled in his favour, why should he refuse and only claim K500million just because KK accepted the same? Is it the amount of money we are looking at or the gist of the ruling? Learn to be logical for once.
Mune Nkope shinyenga Sebuloni Kamutanda spot on on #34. Its time to hold these rotten people accountable to their misgiving.
During the sorry episode that had led to all this chongo – guess who was standing side by side with Kafupi? King Cobra, the same man some of you want to lead Zambia!!!
#40 LT. its not an insult but praise to Sebuloni Kamutanda!
#37 Sebuloni Kamutanda
You are another blind follower. That Mwanawasa boy is just being used by some disgruntled dark forces who want to sow seeds of discontent in the nation. I’m sure he doesn’t even understand the law of tort which he has been coached to parrot. You need to ask yourself: where was he when his father was in power? His late father would not tolerate such kind of indiscipline. The young man’s ending will be very sad.
Even if state machinery was used to try to kill Chongwe, there is no provision in our constitution allowing for the state to direct state machinery to terrorise its own citizenry. In order to prevent another tragic incidence of this nature, the criminals who gave the orders must be brought to book and made to pay. We know Miyanda can talk, Kaunda made him talk in the 80s, all we need to do is torture him by waterboarding. The same goes for Mwila, Shikapwasha and Sata. This way, nobody in power will ever again try to use it to kill innocent Zambians. Maybe for Chiluba, we should just give him a taste of his own medicine he administered to Paul Tembo, Penza and Ngenda. He will love us and be grateful to us for putting him out of his satanic misery.
I miss LT of the early times, the bloggers then, we more intellectual, analytical and resourcesful in their arguments and debate, it makes sad reading for # 40&41 to start insulting or writting such suggestive remarks. Lets have an intellectual social intercourse guys
I think the current LAZ president is on a mission to confuse the nation by siding with the opposition at all times. LAZ members should start scrutinising some of these people before they stand for elections. What is his track record at the bar? He seems to have his own agenda and he is embarassing the legal fratenity by always being on the opposite side of issues.
37. I agree that Patrick appears more sensible than Chilubas children (most of them). Whether they were borne out of wedlock is surely not their fault so we must not demonise them for this. The point that i am trying to make is that the last time i checked our society was a meritocracy. You get to were you get through your hardwork, and not by inheritence. This is the pricinple on which great things are built. Statements/sentences have been attributed to Patrick (in Post), sentences which Patrick cannot comprehend, let alone string together. Patrick is being used – mark my words. There is a deliberate and calculated plan to increase Patricks profile (someone is paying for it) so that he stands for Parliament in 2011. Anyone who plays with fire gets burnt.
#45 nostradamus, what insult have you seen on #40? On the cont-rally check my correction on # 42
Even LAZ has now been overtaken by quacks. Is there any profession in Zambia today that has real proffessionals running it? I am surprised that the LAZ cannot interprete CAP 76 of the Laws of Zambia. When a country is a signatory to a legally binding convention any breach can be prosecuted by anyone and anywhere and the judgment is binding. Judgments on Crimes against humanity do not need to be registered. Human rights law supercedes any local law once a country is a signatory.
43…Chinese Eyes! You are a classical example of pure and undiluted IDIOCY. You are attempting to sound intelligent but you are just a FOOL filled with emotions and exaggerated self-worth. Instead of contributing positively to the discourse you are preoccupied with demeaning other people’s thoughts. Grow up and get a life, looser!
# 43 – Whenever certain sectors of this country are faced with a young person capable of logical reasoning, they quickly dive into insults such as “coached to parrot” fimo fimo! I wonder why such spineless worms remain silent when old men like Kansundila belch repulsive verbature like “amapolitics akunya, onani vimasilu or he looks like Satan” in public where there are even children listening, well, they should be saying Banda is coached to parrot such by CHILDREN and for one I would rather have a mind of my own to reason for me or at best have straight minded adults as consultants like Mwanawasa’s son as you are claiming. The pick is yours. By the way, I bet your name is either Banda, Nyirenda, Daka or Sakala.
Patrick Mwanawasa really makes interesting reading, well his arguments are concentric and appear logical most times, And i know each individual could have his own entry strategy into politics, maybe this is patricks way to get into mainstream politics, however, i would really want to know more about this boy’s CV.Maybe he should concentrate into making on making his own profile in business, law or whatever his profession is, like his father did with law.Otherwise, he might run the risk of depleting his inherintance from the estate without adding value to it. As you well know very few Africans build on inherintance, to make them larger than his father had envisaged.
44. You make my point very eloquently. Am i right in deducting from your argument that you think torture is acceptable? That is why governments MUST be punished so that people like you who suggest torture understand that . It is illegal and unacceptable. Punitive damages are meant to be painful and act as a deterrent. $60k for killing political oponents would set a very bad precedent. Hypothetically speaking, what would stop RB having someone taken care of (eg Sata and HH) if he knew that the only penalty would be for the state (not him) to pay a mere $60k ? To avoid opening “pandoras box” governments need to behave themselves and be aware of litigation risk. The Attorney General is there to advise them of legalities in all instances.
49.THE SAINT!Do you realize that the current LAZ executive is actually the most less militant one compared to the previous executives of Dr Chongwe himself, Michael Musonda, William Mweemba etc. Steve Lungu has actually been so kind with the RB administration and for him to begin coming out in this manner I think he has had enough and he has just realized that the people he was previously protecting are nothing but bloody vampires that are determined to suck our coffers. Just check Steve’s record and you will see that he has actually be a moderate as opposed to the radicals that office has haboured before. Just say you are an ardent RB supporter hence your position coz anybody who is in Zambian today and been following events properly will agree that the current LAZ executive has been…
Roy Clark, Chinese Eyes or whatever you want to call yourself. I think it would make sense for you to make your own contribution with regard tom the subject matter as opposed to attacking other people’s opinions. You truly are behaving like a typical MMD sycophant, “galu ya chiwewe”, be it Patrick Mwanawasa or LAZ in your way, your task is to bite on behalf of Kansundila. Literally all your contributions are defensive ones and all are embarrasingly devoid of any logic or intellectual substance. You truly are in the mold of Chawinga, Mulongoti, Shikapwasha, Kamalondo or Tetamashimba. By the way, when you die, are you in your will surrendering your house and wife to the son of “His Excellency Commander in Chief” Kansundila Bwezani Gwanda Banda’s Son Andrew Banda to inherit and enjoy!
Lets learn to accept young people that have the capacity to analyze issues objectively and intellectually.Whether Patrick is being coached or not the fact is he is raising important view points under his banner. If those criticizing him have brilliant and genuine ideas bring them forth and we shall appreciate if you deserve to be appreciated as well. Desist from PHD [Pull Him Down] syndrome pliz! I have personally interacted with Chiluba’s children and they are nowhere near Patrick. The test is simple: Patrick enjoys his beer those of you who frequent places where he is found sometimes take time to engage him on these issues and you will find out! its that simple…go and talk to MIKO as well-That is if he can even remember the year the father left as the Presidency!
This issue is very serious and if we are not careful it will divide the nation. All the bloggers although they have different views one thing is clear, they all want this issue resolved intelligently within the law. I agree 100% with those who suggest that the government should step in and clear the air truthfully. This may prove very difficult because already the president and the minister of home affairs have already made careless, unreliable and patrionising statements which only show how selfish they are.
Patrick may have his own weakenesses and inabilities but he is certainly better than Chiluba’s children. Has anyone ever spoken to MIKO first imwe bantu? The guy has no manners and he behaves like he never even lived in PLOT 1. MIKO is 40 years old and yet he can’t even survive outside his father’s pockets. The man lives off his father old as he is,just imagine? By the way, nobody restrained Chiluba’s children from consulting and later on commenting on general issues after their father left the Presidency. Chiluba’s family is not a classic African family its so apart! Even when the father was shuttling from one court to the other the children where rarely seen at court to give moral support. Atleast, the late Castro was there on a few occasions.
Out of curiosity, what does Patrick Mwanawasa do for a living? If not for a living (because he may not need to work for a living), what is his profession? I would be grateful for any insight from those who have the inside scoop. it might help inform this discussion.
NO ONE SENT CHONGWE TO ORGANISE AN ILLEGAL MEETING. THEREFORE NO COMPESATION SHOULD BE GIVEN TO HIM JUST LIKE OTHERS WHO HAVE SUFFERED OVER THE YEARS WITH BULLET INJURIES BY ZP EG INNOCENT CITIZENS INCLUDING STUDENTS UNDER ALL PRESIDENTS’ REIGN. CHONGWE SHOULD HAVE TAKEN THE CASE TO THE COURTS IN ZAMBIA IN THE FIRST PLACE AFTER BEING REFUSED THAT OPPORTUNITY THEN HE WOULD HAVE CONSIDERED GOING TO THE UN. HE SELF-EXILED HIMSELF FOR REASONS BEST KNOWN BY HIMSELF, UNLESS HE BROKE THE LAW AND DECIDED TO RUN AWAY. HE SHOULD EARN HIS LIVING AND NOT GET MONEY FROM THE PUBLIC USING LAW. JUST WORK HARD DR CHONGWE AND EARN THAT MONEY FROM YOUR SWEAT.
We will get nowhere as a people or country if we are so thick as to reason like CM in 60. A judgement has been passed, Zambia is a signatory and therefore has to comply. It is in the past. Anything else is just noise. If Zambia does not comply, the cost to the nation will be greater than $6m. We could be ostracised by the international community and have sanctions imposed, because we would be viewed no differently than Mugabe. You differentiate selves from Mugabe by adhering to rule of Law (including international)
Simple Simon@ 59, as of now the young man is just busy jumping around having a beer here and there. Probably sees no need to start working yet. As for Chongwe, i still want someone to explain why the law seems to have short cuts. Why go to the UN when we have courts here? You mean i can sue my inlaw also ku UN? Ni tandizeni pulizi!
Ba Moze, thanks for that. It goes to show how we settle for anyone in Zambia as long as they have a name we’ve heard before.
Chongwe would not have had a fair trial in Zambia, hence him going to the UN. Our judiciary is corrupt and subjective. Look at the farce with the DPP? Look at the Chiluba case and how Mulongoti and RB confirmed that a jail term for Chiluba would not have been politically convenient for MMD. Unless we put our house in order then outside forces will always have a say. There are stipulations for how to add interest to amounts awarded by courts. $2.5m can easily become $6 using Zambia’s inflation and interest rates.
Simple Simon@ 63, thanks. But then how possible is it to enforce such a judgement and where can one go to seek redress in the event that the judgement has not been enforced? Eg, Chongwe?
The issue here is why Dr Chongwe not CBU students or Dr Kaunda?
#50 Mwiinga
Now, who is being emotional between you and me? Your diatribe is devoid of any iota of logic as you find it easy to engage in verbal diarrhoea from your conceited rooftop masquarading as a sage. Your subsequent contributions on Patrick Mwanawasa are laughable and illogical to say the least. Just how do Chiluba’s children come in, badala?
You Chongwe relatives, Chongwe does not need that money & he has no heart for Zambians.I’ll register my case in Zambia & not with the UN truibunal where one man made the decision. GRZ, don’t pay this money. Just give him one hundred thousand dollars only. If he refuses, then he will receive nothing.
64 Ba Moze welcome bck. Its not Chongwes fault that other victims have not been awarded damages.
#68 Tiger Woods, Cheers! I hear you. In short, it still comes back to “ignorance of the law is no defence?”
Do you know the govt should pay? they should pay so that such acts of stupidity are not repeated. its a punishment and yes it has to be painful. Give Chongwe what is due to him. This is a lesson to all those half baked politicians in Zambia that there are consequences for their actions.
I sads yesterday in my contribution to the earlier article that this law and subject to different interpretations. Its good that Rodger Chongwe has given an example of a previous precedent. It is also worth noting that he is a human rights lawyer and i think his knowledge of international law a it pertains to human rights issues is quite wide. As for the amount, i think is about how highly you evaluate yourself
But people, no one is answering my question: We the people are saying no! Where does he go to seek redress? Who will enforce the judgement?
Ba moze thats a good question. Well you have elected leaders who could are obliged to make decisions. However the courts always exist as a place of abitration
Oppinion of LAZ on Chongwe and compensation under microscopic diagnosis. An indication of how our inadequate our law system is.
Positivist, in this particular case, if RB, for instance says we can only pay so much, who will arbitrate? Dont you think that exercise is both academic and futile?
The Post and their cronies the Mwanawasa family have lost the moral authority to comment on anything touching the Zambian matters. Giving Patrick Mwanawasa undue press coverage is a grosteque inversion of morality. When talking about Dr Chongwe’s compensation the youngman seems to be thinking with his heart and not the brain. Dr Chongwe deserves payment because he was shot at and that can be classed as attempted murder. If that same case was taken before a court in London, without question the Zambian government would pay through the nose. LAZ should be the nation’s servant and not its masters. They will do well to remind themselves that their job is to interpret judicial matters and not to create laws and rules.Why is paying Rodger Chongwe wrong and perfectly OK to pay Chiko Bwalya?
Well BA MOZE we would have to see. But my take is first we need to recognise that first he is President and has executive powers. What I dont know is if his powers allow to make such a decision. Now thats were the courts come in , they would decide whether he ( the president)is empowered and whether his decision is just.. And i know a lot of people feel the president can not be over ruled, but you just need to look T THE kABWELA Case and you will see that courts do make independent decisions. A question to Kaduka # 76 how does the babywasa ( sorry mwanawasa family ) come in to this
#51&55 Sebuloni Kamutanda
Like Shakespeare said: What’s in a name? I’m none of those names you have suggested and I don’t have to be an easterner in order to be logical. It’s really a pity that often times some folks opt to debase serious national issues by bringing in the tribal card when logic fails to prevail. That’s Stone Age.
Some of these learned lawyers should go back to school and re-learn their law books, how come the whole learned LAZ president giving us such counsel faulty assumptions. To me that is worse than misinforming the nation.
Some of these learned lawyers should go back to school and re-learn their law books, how come the whole learned LAZ president giving us such counsel based on faulty assumptions. To me that is worse than misinforming the nation.
Pankwa, law is subject to different interpretations
this case shud be thrown out of zambia and let the Australian govt pay hime then!!akula mutu uyu!
Well ba Chongwe we will pay you when FTJ pays us our money.
#80(Pankwa)
On this one,the LAZ president spoke impulsively without checking his facts and indeed misled the whole nation.The LAZ President has already realised this as evidenced in”If Dr Chongwe insists that there is no need for registration, then it’s his opinion.”Being camera crazy has its own consequences Mr Lungu.
My good learned lawyers. Are we then saying if i lost a case in the supreme court i can then appeal to international human rights court seeing that this court can usurp all previous judgments? does this not undermine that fact that the supreme court is the final court of appeal?
#81 Positivist pa Zed, well he should have given us all possible interpretations.
Just in case you’re fed up with reading about law and order, just listen to a song called “Premiere Gaou” from Magic System – you wont stop shaking your body! Right now I’m addicted to the song… ati nangela nagelewa…nangale nangalewa…aaaahhhh!!!
#87 I know that song Gaou, nangele nagelewa aahh lol
umutende wafulisha pa Zed lets all relocate to Darfur……..
CHINESE EYE….
Thanks for insulting me. I am really what you have said about me. However I can assure you that my fooolishness is wiser than your wisdom. You have turned your back to poor Zambians just coz your relative Chongwe is about to get blood money from poor Zambians. Any way days are numbered, enjoy them man.
I got a lot of sense from what Patrick Mwanawasa said in the Post than RB, LAZ, Chongwe and Kunda`s statements. All the best Patrick.
# 78 Chinese Eyes – Like wetting oneself in a dark suit gives one a warm feeling, it’s interesting how scam of the world that epitomise the ultimate repository of all things vile and repugnant are so quick, when caught pants down, to smear innocents with their stinking excrement giving them a sense of smell that all others are like them stinkers. Hardly do they realise that even if this acts gives them a sense of feeling that all are stinking, we can still identify them by their intellectual nakedness. To begin with, its politically incorrect to call oneself Chinese Eyes. Your support for Kanitundila lacks a single thread of intellect, its clearly born out of tribal bigotry – Kumawa kumodzi!
# 19 Nostradamus and # 20 Zedian …, I will try and help you understand the legal position regarding this matter. This also applies to the many bloggers debating this so called judgement.
On the 15th December LT published an aticle under the heading ‘ RB did not authorise compensation to Dr Chongwe ‘ …..Now , under this article , a blogger , ‘ The Truth ‘ , made a posting that explains the legal position clearly. He even provided a link that will take you straight to the findings of the Human Rights Comittee , called the ‘ communication ‘ .
It seems most people here have not read that posting or even bothered to go through the debates on that thread or we would not have here , 90 + bloggers talking about the same thing over and over.
Once again, ..Kudos to ‘ The…
Once again ,… Kudos to ‘ The Truth ‘
A correction on # 93. The ‘communication’ is the actual submission made by Dr Chongwe to the committee and NOT the findings of the committee. Hope this avoids confusion.
# 78 – I always get a sick, enslaving kick out of watching the mental gymnastics necessary for people like you comprehend abrogate, derogate and abdicate. It is most nauseous to the stomach to watch snob souls with unmistakable linguistic deformities belabour to quote Shakespeare to give an illusionary and fake intellectual facade to a wooden-headed contrarian like you. Roger Chongwe is a personal friend of mine and that he ought to be compensated for the heinous attempt on his life is but a foregone conclusion. For all those who knew him before and now, they will agree his hearing is impared because of Chiluba’s attempt on his life. My point is the compensation shouldn’t be done behind scenes and not to such a collosal tune whose opportunity cost is so high to bear for innocent…
CHONGWE just forget there is no money to pay you
I think we should ask FTJ and Miyanda to share these costs
what happens if the government does not pay
How do you measure one’s near-death experience, what amount of money do you put against it? Is is permanently disabled, or traumatized- again how do you measure this? Is this money going to take that away? When the UN body was determining compensation, did they use an American, Australian, or EU standard- perhaps we should go to them to fund the compensation as aid.
I agree, Dr Chongwe deserves to have been compensated but reasonably, say, $100,000- If he goes ahead and accepts $6.7M and still walk with his head high, its a shame. This country has financial difficulties and to be honest, perhaps every second person deserves to have been compensated at some point because we have gone through some form of abuse or ill-treatment.
The outcome of this rests on Dr. Chongwe’s conscience.
96, 100 Sensible comments. Yes indeed, that Chongwe is right is beyond question if Zambia is a signatory to those conventions. Everything rests on Chongwe’s conscience in this improverished nation. Such kinds of money can fund Mongu-Kalabo road. If I were Chongwe, just an acknowledgement of liability by GRZ would go a long way to give me satisfaction, and I would accept a reasonable figure. Sorry fellow bloggers I have no answer as to what is a reasonable figure.