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Excellent pics LT, is this what Simbao calls progress?
Simbao should be serious. You want to attract Zambian medical personnel back to come and work under these crappy conditions. Dickson Jere, I hope you will show these pics to the big man!
Well the pictures are inconclusive. Inconclusive in the sense that the pictures do not tell whether conditions are improving or getting worst. I’ll give an example. In weight loss infomercials, they usually show before and after pictures of the same person to illustrate the results. With the pictures above, well not much of a conclusion can be formed.
Concerning the flood, it is possible it could have been on a bad day. Yes conditions are not the best at UTH but if you have an overcrowding problem, such problems are bound to be prevalent. If Govt tries to do something about it, Mr. Sata makes the front page accusing them of celebrating someone else’s achievements. Damned if you do, Damned if you don’t.
That said, I’m sure the blogger has achieved what he/she initially intended. Not that it is relevant but the above pictures would most definitely pass for the BBC.
Mr. Simbao- I was attracted by the 3000 counsulting jobs you reported to the parliament the other day. I even started packing my kutundu in order for my family and I move back home. But after further consideration and viewing of the UTH photos, I have asked my family to suspend packing. I dont think it will be a wise move for us.Thanks though for the attempt. Hope other patriotic Zambians will come back home and take up the jobs.
Well! what can one say about our beautifull country,it hurts! Zimbabwe had 5billion% inflation just a year ago,i dont think their hospitals are as dire straits as this,Rwanda,Congo DR and Angola which hosted the AfCON were in serious civil strife, look at what they have archieved in the same space that we have been at peace and always proclaiming single digit inflation
Come to think of it,even with this suffering,people will still VOTE for MMD,come next year!
like it or not i think capitalist has got a point. why has our attention been directed to only a small corner of the page? we want to see the WHOLE page so that we can draw our own conclusions. # 2 shame on you jumping to conclusions like this; those of us who in the long term are looking at heading back home to contribute something don’t expect to find the conditions in which we practice here
Mr Capitalist, the pics speak for themselves, no need to be philosophical here. The biggest problem we face in Zed is that we can’t handle the truth. Last time someone took pics of patients sleeping on the floor, UTH mgt tried to cover it up and voilà, those patients dissapeared by the time Simbao went for an on the spot check. Same thing happens everytime RB is scheduled to visit; all of a sudden painters/plumbers/carpenters appear from the blues! My point is, if we really want to see tangible improvements in our infrastructure, let RB and Simbao see it for what it is. Better still, nxt time FJT needs to have his feeble heart checked, let’s send him to a flooded congested ward where ‘chi budiza’ is used as a prop! I bet you if our politicians spent just a few minutes in these…
Thanks for the pics.
But be careful, RB may charge you with pornography or something for taking pictures of UTH.
;)
#3
Your example about Weight loss Informacials, with regards to whether things have improved or not; I’ll refer you back to some pictures the Post Newspaper published showing people sleeping on the floors and in corridors
postzambia.com/post-read_article.php?articleId=13447, so from these pictures can we conclude that things are going from bad to worse,I’ll let other level headed bloggers judge
Concerning the flooding,does it matter whether its a bad day or a good day for a General hospital like UTH not to be flooded?
7 Chilombo; shame on me?? Why is the truth so hard to swallow; a nation that can’t handle honest constructive critcism is a doomed one. If our politicians spent just a few minutes under these conditions at UTH (instead of the plush Morningside), I bet you, the budgetary allocation to Min. of Health would instantly quadruple! Is it too much to ask for basic affordable healthcare for ALL Zambians. We spend billions on countless by-elections yet can’t fix basic things like drainage at UTH? If we cleaned up our act and internal controls, junior civil servants like Kapoko and UTH cashiers wouldn’t be embezzling billions while our poor brothers and sisters put up with such nonsense at the nation’s biggest teaching hospital.
And yet some Shrek look alike is flying between places. last time i heard of the ogre is that he was in brasil and caught a direct flight back to botswana for another of his state visits.
watuletelela iwe Shrek awe kuya bebele mwe!!!!
“Mr Capitalist, the pics speak for themselves, no need to be philosophical here.”
@ #8 Big Pipe
Like I said, the blogger has achieved what he/she intended and I am confident BBC would love those pictures.
It’s not the pictures I am disputing but the conclusions the blogger wants us to reach. This is why I am saying the pictures are inconclusive because I don’t know what to think when I look at the above pictures.
I am well aware that conditions at UTH have been bad for a long time but just from looking at the above pictures, I cannot tell whether the conditions are getting better or worst hence my use of the word inconclusive.
Btw, a prominent politician Katele Kalumba is recieving his treatment from UTH.
Hey! Where is the new Cancer wing? What about the new Lab and the newly built Paediatrics wing? What about the refurbished Blood Bank and the cleanest Virology department in sub Saharan Africa?
Was this whole episode about the G ward only? Did you pick the worst ward and make it your primary subject?
Is this journalism or slanderism?
Like the Chicago General Hospital in the USA, UTH has many pleasing features that will out do the displeasing ones.
Only foo.ls will dispute the fact that the conditions at UTH HAVE NEVER IMPROVED. We dont need proverbs to convince us that place is actually a health hazard. Katele might be admitted there because you always have better wards for those who can afford/politicians. But generally the place is a mess. Why are we even bringing in BBC? BBC is not in charge of UTH. We shouldnt be in denial, institutions like UTH have been run down. MMD cadres SING about development everyday. Do they refer to the pics above?
Mr. Capitalist you can not be serious, no disrespect but you surely must be missing a screw in your head to say the pics are inconclusive. before and after what ?? The hospital wether its before or after should never ever be in that state. There has to be a set standard and then you can commment on improvment from there you cant just accept anything and say at least there has been improvement or not. There should be no flooding in the corridors and patients should never have to use gumbuli’s as weights regardless if it is before or after, might as well do it at home!!
# 15 Anthony Lloyd – PhD Anthropology – Oxford UK . When last were you at UTH? Please spare us the crap. My collegue was once was head of that Virology department you are talking about. I know it very well so stop your cheap propaganda.
#14 Don’t expect praizez when you provide adequately for your family, that iz your obligation. However, should you for some hazy reazon fail to carter for your house-hold, you will definitely be condemned.
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Mr. Capitalist why are you in denial? Indeed the bolgger who posted the photos has achieved what he/she intended. Atleast those of us who do not have a chance to go to UTH are enlightened. LT should block all your stupid comments.
@ #16 Educator
Then I do have some screws loose by your standard because I still maintain the pictures are inconclusive.
Concerning the flooding, just because a hospital should not have flooding does not mean it does not happen. Here in Canada, buildings flood all the time even when they are not supposed to. On LT, people should not insult but others still find a way to insult (despite LT blocking some of the words). Unfortunately that is the reality that is life.
Concerning the standard, how do I set a standard when I only have the above pictures to work with? For all I know, the blogger might have gone to the worst ward and taken pictures there as a “standard” for you bloggers to set concerning the whole hospital.
Mr Capitalist- I read your posts sometimes and think you are usually quite objective but here you have missed the mark.I worked at UTH 10 years ago and I never saw the wards flooded like this.So in that sense maintenance has probably worsened.I like pic 9 it reminds me of the good old days in the surgical wards with prof Krikor.The ward looks exactly the same as it did 10years ago.pic 3 -they now use plastic containers for traction? hope the bricks we used to use did not get expensive or perhaps they are used to fill the sand bags in pic 8.All in all Simbao you can have your UTH I am definately not coming back.But I would like to thank the Zambian government for sponsoring the 7 years of medical education I got.Just don’t understand why you treated us doctors like crap.
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Simbao can you resign immediately or else…………………..
#23 When arguing in such forum, you do not insult people. This just shows, how low you calibre is. Argue sensible and defend your points. If this is our future leaders (Party caders) who are insulting, then I can see that Zambia is going nowhere with such guys. Let get rid of such people.
This is a big concern. Showing the high cost will not make much sense bcoz the majority pipo in Zambia are confined to low cost since they cannot afford to pay medical bills. Therefore, the government has to do something about it.
these pics are depressing.in fact,Zambia is just depressing.
I’ve said before – we don’t have a maintenance culture.The stoneage towers in lusaka,to garbage strewn sidewalks,to blocked drains causing floods on streets and lights out nothing is ever maintained.Unless we have a maintenane culture,independent monitoring/auditing free of political shenanigans and continous renewal with stringent controls and penalties nobody will ever learn.We know we’re in a hole yet we keep digging and expect a different result.Only God knows how many have died at UTH due to contamination,poor sanitation,neglect or infection at UTH yet the family is lied to- “oh, his condition deteriorated”
Thank you for the reality check. So Mr Simbao and entire MMD Cabinet, where are the taxes going if we can’t keep UTH in good order? How long will it be before the new Lusaka District Hospital also begins to look like this???
Hats off to the nurses and doctors and other health personnel who still try to keep the system going in such unfavourable working conditions.
Is this all the LT blogger saw at UTH. Are there no good happenings at UTH? Let us be objective and present issues squarely. Yes the western world will love it especially BBC and will continue showing this. If another Zedian went to the UTH and captured the good happenings and post them here, you will see how many insults will be showered on the one. The first will be “he has been bought” GRZ propaganda etc. I know not things are not well in most areas of our country but certainly i have seen good happenings going on even at UTH.
wow 2 hours into the rainy season.I wonder what it will look like by the middle of the rainy season.For those of you who are saying why not show the good side of UTH,didn’t you see the ‘good ‘ pictures of RB opening some unit and Simbao in some operating threate.The problem is when good pictures are shown you don’t say anything when bad pictures are shown you get all defensive.Would you like to be admitted at UTH? at least we know Zambian politicians wouldn’t like to be admitted there.
How come Sata managed the hospitals well?Maybe the current govt should consult him?The pics are really disgusting and my heart goes to every poor soul that goes to this hospital?
How has the govt resolved the kapoko saga together with that doctor who pleaded for mercy from the president because they are both from the same village?
Nkalanda you made my day lol! You instructed your family to suspend packing ha ha ha! By the way there is no water in UHT at night.
Its not only UTH, most public infrastructure in Zambia is collapsing in free fall. Make a visit to UNZA.
Zambia is a poor country. Running a health service is not cheap. If more money was spent on health, then less money would have to be spent in other areas such as education and infrastructure construction. Lets not forget the positives that have been done such as the new hospital or clinic in Chawama. New equipment has been bought for UTH and let us see whether or not the mobile clinics might actually work instead of talking them down before they have even started to operate. Not many countries in Africa have an efficient health service. Even South Africa struggles to provide adequate health care for its people. If you want to see how bad things could be just watch the healthcare provision in some other African countries on youtube. You will be thankful that we have UTH.
@Mr. Capitalist – 3 E’s steering economic growth: You are a clasic case of someone surfering the all too common disease called “DENAIAL”!!! How one can look at these pictures and still think such horable conditions are acceptable in a hospital is, politely put, LUNANCY!!
Are you really telling us that it matter less beacuse it just one, two, or three wards that are in shambols? You live in Canada, do really think that the Canadian govt would tolerate such conditions
Mr Capitalist, you have a problem and you need help.
@Mr. Capitalist – 3 E’s steering economic growth:
You are a classic case of someone suffering from the all-too-ommon disease called “DENAIAL”! How one can look at those pictures and still think such horrible conditions are acceptable in a hospital is, politely put, utter LUNANCY!!
s really make it less egregious if it only a small portion of UTH that is in such deplorable conditions? Even KK, who was a semi-dictator, did not allow such nonsen.s.e at UTH. We have so called “educated leaders” in govt, and yet look where they have taken our country; TO THE DOG.S!
Isn’t Rupiah and his clique even ashamed when they go on their touristic escapades, see how other world leaders have developed their nations’ infrastructure, and then come home to substandard living conditions?
Oops! Sorry, DISREGARD my incomplete comments at @36. I pushed a wrong key before I was done!!!!
No comment because it hurts to see such miserable things in our country..
@ #38 Yambayamba
Quote me were I have said such horrible conditions are acceptable.
#3.@Mr. Capitalist.-Concerning the flood, it is possible it could have been on a bad day. Surely, out of millions of thoughts how can someone think like that? Those floods you see there are due to POOR, BAD or NO drainage system at all. And this is all about BAD GOVERNANCE, CORRUPTION, POOR EDUCATION SYSTEM, BAD HEALTH CARE CONDITION and VERY BAD SYSTEM OF TACKLING POVERTY.
To you all ‘learned’ experts armchair-critiquing from poshy foreign lands, I guess you’d would you feel very proud coming back home to a more improved ZED after your more patrotic colleagues have sacrificed all their worth for their motherland! I have considerable respect for sons of the land like Dr Manda & Dr Lemba, to mention but a few, (who by the way, any varsity worldwide would gladly welcome) as well as those in the diaspora who choose to keep quiet having realized that condemning your own country, which you freely abandoned, from alien lands is the hight of cowardice!
# 41 Mr. Capitalist – 3 E’s steering economic growth . You really want to be smart. You dont put it straight that those conditions are acceptable but from your comments it is clear that you dispute that UTH is in a bad state. # 35 Chibolya We dont dispute that other countries struggle in providing health services but their so called TOP hospitals are in VERY good conditions. UTH is our MAIN hospital and we ARE NOT THAT POOR to run it properly. We DONT want to accept poor standards. You dont even know whether the health facility in Chawama is a Clinic or Hospital so stop supporting blindly.
Yep as much as i would like to condemn too, but these pictures are just way to limited to represent the whole of UTH
@ #44 Motsepe
If you’re judging based on my “comments” simply implies that it is your opinion that you think I dispute that UTH is in a bad state. Unless you have a direct quote, that is simply your opinion which unfortunately I have to respect in a democracy.
Read through my comments once again (this time, dump the PF mob psych and actually read through) and you’ll understand were my position is.
dog hospitals here, are spotless and posh compared to the filth am seeing above!
Dear Pauline Mbangweta, UTH PRM
It will be of public interest you give us an update of Dr. Lumba Kalumba Katele’s current condition. Katele like any other public figures has a wider following who have not been able to make to UTH would klike to be updated on his condition say every 24hrs. Looking at the pictueres on the blog did these affect his ward. Any way why has Kalumba Katele not been evacuated abroad for specialist treatment? I wish papa Kalumba Katele Wazabanga Wamilele Bwana DR a quick recovery. Lumba dont cry the man will pull thru.
I sense alot of debate as to whether the blogger who took these pictures meant to expose the bad side of UTH, or never bothered to show us the good side. Some of you argue that this is one sided reporting. Rightly so, there are places within UTH that are adorable. But the fact of the matter is, there should be no section of this hospital that should be deplorable. There is no excuse for the flooding. Once we as a people start accepting mediocrity, then we accelerate the underdevelopment of our own country. We have to develop standards in our lives and learn to appreciate that a good hospital environment is our birth-right. We cannot afford the luxury of half good and half bad. We should not accept the status quo as a reality. Last, Zambians, please show maturity in debating such issues.
MMD at work.please vote for me so that i can continue to go for trips and leave your Zambia to rot..vote for me dull Zambians..
#50 Banda lol………
Mr. Capitalist leave Zambia to the poor Zambians and enjoy your comfort in Canada if you are a diplomat or studying on a government bursery. When was the last time you were in Zambia if I may ask Sir.
Fair view there #3 but floods shouldn’t be allowed in the hospital.UTH has contracted companies who do the cleaning and they need to be accountable for those floods because they have a contract to do just that kind of job.The wards look clean,even the sluice room looks clean.Improvising a weight with a plastic container of water is fine as long as the weight of the container is what the doc wanted.If everyone started to use their common sense and improvise whenever needed then zambia would be a better place.I don’t see nothing wrong with the linen bin.If the photographer’s aim was to paint a groom picture of UTH then I think he has failed.He needs to re-do his work.Let him consult how it’s done.
# 3 Mr Capitalist,
Am not a Zambian,but i once stayed in Zambia and i had been to your hospital in the capital of Lusaka.Am disappointed with you,just to say the least,those pictures are self explainatory.When were you last in Zambia you must be a big fool!You should be visiting your country jack ass.
Thank you for the pictures. Great job Sir/Madam. Sad, sad imwe banthu shuwa this is unacceptable. I’m speechless.
@ Mr Capitalist
Your philosophical spin doesn’t wash to be quite honest. So what if the pictures were taken from the worst ward? These pictures merely highlight a sad tale of infrastructure dilapidation in Zambia. I personally think it’s an affront to the Zambian people for you to philosophize this appalling situation at UTH while you’re sitting pretty in Canada; enjoy first class medical facilities which your compatriot s will never access at this rate of misrule. Shame on you! This is not about politics; it is about our biggest hospital in Zambia providing top class medical care. “Btw, a prominent politician Katele Kalumba is recieving his treatment from UTH.” I will also “Btw” you..do you know that the majority of Zambians can not afford the Fast Track VIP Ward where Katele Kalumba…
Zambia has always been ‘potentially rich’. It is poor because of the non-exploitation of a diversity of resources, mismanagement of the available ones, inequitable distribution of wealth, lack of prioritising and a culture of accepting mediocrity. UTH should certainly be better than it is. Our prioritizing is poor. We love to spend on superficial structures and needless luxury. Ordinarily, there is need to develop a sense of being happier with a good affordable health system, quality education and a social net, than being able to afford unnecessary luxuries.
Appaling indeed, ridiculous.
These pictures tell a lot about our leaders. No even a mad man needs to be told that the situation at the biggest hospital in the capital is an eye sore. Why do we vote? When Banda sees these kind of pictures, what does he think in that big head of his. That’s not normal. Zambians vote wisely next year.
If Banda can cut on some of those trips, I think we can fix most of the problems in those pictures. It a shame to our leaders who always rush to SA when the are sick. WHAT A SHAME.
The question you need to ask is “does Mr Banda, Mr Chiluba or any other members of government present or past” use UTH as their primary care facility ? if the answer is no…..then i rest my case.
These pictures are misleading. they are one sided aimed at making UTH look rotten. I don’t like this kind of reporting. Its like the way the western media put all people from Zed and other african countries like you all sleep in trees. bad reporting… s.u.c.k.s. ..and hues what I’m entitled to my opinion which is correct.
Go UTH …treat your patients with the little resources you have…..
You can try to shut me up as much as you want. I still stick to my guns. Like I said, if you want to know my view, read my posts again without PF mob psych.
It is easy for you guys to condemn in the comforts of your lavish posh London and Perth townhouses but as for me, I will commend and support any govt effort at making things better in the nation regardless of how small because I understand were Zambia was 20 to 30 years ago.
What do you expect when all the money is being spent on holiday trips by uncaring, overzealous, arrogant and thieving leaders. Be rest assured all you lot, you shall pay for these crimes.
i wouldn’t work there thats why i left. everyone in a senior position at u.t.h owes me an explaination. these guys drive posh cars and yet they work in such a place, try to use some common sence and make the place better.
@41, Mr. Capitalist – 3 E’s steering economic growth:
@3: “…Well the pictures are inconclusive. Inconclusive in the sense that the pictures do not tell whether conditions are improving or getting worst…”
Now, going by your example, if any reasonable person sees the before and after pics of a 400 lb over-weight person and they still look the same or even bigger, what conclusions should an intelligent person draw from that? That the pictures are lying? We have seen UTH pics before, sir! And conditions seems to be getting worse; where have you been?!
@41, Mr. Capitalist – 3 E’s steering economic growth:
@3: “…Concerning the flood, it is possible it could have been on a bad day…”
Now you have got to be kidding me! Did a hurricane hit UTH on this bad day you are referring to? Floods in Lusaka are an “every-rainy-season” occurrence, you would think the govt has wised up about this already. But with people like you who are willing to find excuses on behalf of the govt, our leaders have zero incentives to improves things in our country. ONE WANDERS WHY WE EVEN HAVE GOVT—IS IT FOR PLUNDER ALONE?!
@41, Mr. Capitalist – 3 E’s steering economic growth:
@4: “…I’m sure the blogger has achieved what he/she initially intended. Not that it is relevant but the above pictures would most definitely pass for the BBC…”
Are you telling me only people at BBC can see that there is indeed something wrong with the state of public our infrastructure looking at those pictures? Please don’t insult people’s intelligence, sir!
By the way, what are the conclusions you think the “LT blogger” who posted the pics wanted us to reach? If any, well, it is obvious he/she hasn’t succeeded, because you yourself seems to have reached a different conclusion than the one you think the pictures were intended for—- SO STOP THE ACCUSATIONS!
@41, Mr. Capitalist – 3 E’s steering economic growth:
@3: “… Yes conditions are not the best at UTH but if you have an overcrowding problem, such problems are bound to be prevalent…@13: It’s not the pictures I am disputing but the conclusions the blogger wants us to reach…”
Am, I blind?! Because I don’t see any overcrowding in those pictures, so how did you reach this conclusion by looking at the pictures, sir?! YET YOU ACUSE THE “POSTER” OF THE PICS TO HAVE AN AGENDA OF TRYING TO DUPE LT BLOGGERS/READERS INTO REACHING A PRECONCIEVED CONCLUSION!!
I would be glad if conditions at UTH were JUST GOOD, NOT even the BEST, but JUST GOOD! That’s all people are asking for, sir!!
NOW, Mr. Capitalist, people can read between the lines, alright!!
@41, Mr. Capitalist – 3 E’s steering economic growth:
They say: “A PICTURE IS WORTH A THOUSAND WORDS.” Does this mean anything to you?!!!!!
Iam speechless! so the floods have now reached the UTH hosptal!!!! its no longer just chawama compound, Zambians how bad must things get before you think of changing leaders?? chibudiza for a weight? that can’t be past! having been trained and worked at UTH those features are new! there is something seriously wrong with our leaders, they have no conscience at all.
@ #65 Yambayamba
The point is to see if the person is improving. That was the point I was making. If the 400lb person is still 400lbs after say 6 months then there is no improvement. If the 400lb person is 328lbs after six months (it is encouraged that you should lose 3 lbs a week if you want to lose the pounds in a healthy way) then there is an improvement. That was the point.
I never said the pictures are lying. Quote me on that….I dare you.
@ #66 Yambayamba
And who is in charge of LSK city if I may ask??? Isn’t it the council?? The reality is floods do happen. Even here in Canada, buildings flood all the time. I doubt it is an everyday occurrence at UTH but I cannot tell that just with the above pictures hence the phrase inconclusive.
@ #67 Yambayamba
quote, “Are you telling me only people at BBC can see that there is indeed something wrong with the state of public our infrastructure looking at those pictures?” end quote.
I never said that. I dare you to quote me on this.
cont…
quote, “what are the conclusions you think the “LT blogger” who posted the pics wanted us to reach?” end quote.
Well I cannot tell you that. I can only speculate. The LT blogger is the only one who can answer that question.
@ #68 Yambayamba
quote“Am, I blind?! Because I don’t see any overcrowding in those pictures, so how did you reach this conclusion by looking at the pictures, sir?! YET YOU ACUSE THE “POSTER” OF THE PICS TO HAVE AN AGENDA OF TRYING TO DUPE LT BLOGGERS/READERS INTO REACHING A PRECONCIEVED CONCLUSION!!” end quote.
Well I don’t know if you’re blind but I was speaking in demographic terms. From the time UTH was built, Lusaka had a smaller population compared to now. In short, the hospital has not expanded to the levels where it can accomodate the current population of Lusaka. Solutions would be to either expand UTH or build and upgrade alternative hospitals like the Chawama hospital or the LSK Gen. Hospital.
I never accused the poster of having an “agenda”…
cont..
I never accused the poster of having an “agenda” to “dupe” LT bloggers/readers into reaching a preconceived conclusion. Quote me where I said this.
@ #69 Yambayamba
That once again provides credence to my statement that the pictures are inconclusive. For example, if you go to see your investment banker concerning some stocks and they tell you they expect the value of this stock to be somewhere between $20 and $90. Well that is not telling you anything is it because there are too many possibilities concerning the price of the stock hence you would be extremely skeptical.
However if your investment banker tells you “based on historical data and current market trends, we expect the stock to be somewhere between $40 and $45″, that is telling you something because now you can confidently make a decision or conclusion on whether you should invest or not.
So if a picture is worth a thousand words, it is not telling you much or anything at all. So if the above pictures are worth a thousand words, you cannot reach a concrete conclusion hence my phrase inconclusive.
I’m done with this topic now. Before you attack me with PF mob psych, actually read what I have written to understand my position.
UTH is not the only hospital in this condition other like Kitwe Cental Hospital are worse! i had an opportunity to visit the hospital- low cost when i go to see friends who are in a preveledged position as i am. Capitalist.. you are the people who are causing trouble in our country and give false impression to leaders. your jagons of inconclusiveness amount to nothing. Its just like those arguments about the definition of poverty, whether you explain it in whatever theoritical or conceptual framework the answer is the same for Africa… Many people go hungry.. so Mr Capitalist if Canada is blinding you dont anger us, i am in the Europe right now but memories of my suffering friends and family are fresh. Capitalist, your comments are an insult to logic and humanity
@71-78, Mr. Capitalist – 3 E’s steering economic growth
Sir, being CLEVER does not necessarily mean being SMART! And what you are trying to do here is to simply act clever when you fully know what you are saying is ridiculous.
And what is overcrowding got to do with what you see in the pics above, sir? This is exactly my point in saying that “a pic is worth a thousand words”. Basically what it means is that you don’t need someone else to convince you otherwise, in so many words, when you can see it for yourself in a pic!! But you seem to have missed that one too.
PF mob psych or not, people are reacting to your comments because they are simply beneath someone enlightened and intelligent like you, sir! It has nothing to do with political affiliations—and I am NO PF!
I pray to God that countries like South Africa will BAN treatment to former presidents, ministers, current and former politicians including opposition leaders who rush to Johannesburg for treatment. It will make them look at the local facillities and pay more attention to local hospitals. PLEASE JACOB ZUMA, BAN THESE AFRICANS FROM COMING TO SEEK TREATMENT IN SOUTH AFRICA. BAN THEM, BAN THEM, BAN THEM…..PLEASE WE BEG YOU!!!!!!!!
#77 Capitalist, please stay away from your analogy of an investment banker and stocks. You are totally confusing the situation at UTH with this analogy. Please note, I am not questioning your intelligence, but just that you lack an understanding between the two issues.
These pictures are evidence of a failed national health management. They really leave one wondering how the patients even manage to recover under such conditions. Patients have the right to be treated in a clean and functioning environment.
There is also no excuse that our government can give for such failed management seeing that there is enough tax money and donor funds allocated to health services. It’s no wonder the high society gets flown out everytime for treatment. But what about the rest of the nation who can’t afford? They have no choice.
TOO MANY BLIND SUPPORTS**==
#62. @Mr. Capitalist. Sorry for telling you this, I think you’re sick. So are you telling me that, those floods you’re seeing there are of a good effort at making things better in the nation? The days of Kaunda or Mwanawasa, may his soul rest in peace, we could not have floods in the Hospital.
The greatest mistake which I knew the gov had committed was to give in to IMF demands of pruning health workers! No country on earth (with the exception possibly of Cuba) has enough health care personnel! When we went (I was one of those who left), I knew a catastrophe was soon to be seen! I feel for the patient! The second is the funding! My best time at KCH was when Sata was Minister of Health! Bring that old man! He knows the job!
You can have a beautiful shopping mall like Manda Hill and the most important building is 1000 times worse than the mall. If RB just sacrificed one trip alone that alone would be enough to fix a ward in UTH. I personally went to UTH last year visiting my relative, I absolutely did not feel comfortable being there. I felt really bad just looking around at the patients subjected to sleep on beds that look and feel so uncomfortable and absolute no privacy. The walls and floors smell terrible.
RB needs a field trip to the hospital. He does not need to be traveling around the world like a headless chicken!
Vote Magande 2011
UTH oh please..are you seriously telling us we cannot control that fllooding into the corridors? we don’t need a rocket scientist to figure this out.The problem in Zambia is, we are focused too much into politics and things that don’t really matter than simple solutions. how much money do we need to hire a contractor to solve a stupid drainage system..common on now..where is the CEO of UTH? can’t he see this.The more reason we need the likes of Mr. Michael Chilufya Sata he would definately fire the fool that is running UTH without question.Sometimes i get very passionate about little things like these.it is not complicated to hire a contractor.And we put up posters to justify our inertia..all foolishness
#35 Would you like to drive on a world class road to a poor hospital or would you rather drive on a poor road to a world class hospital? Zambia has neither. So, your point was?
I am sure it is common knowledge that Lusaka is too populated and UTH cannot cope with the demand especially that the number of medical personnel has not increased due to unattractive working conditions at the institution. As much as I respect Mr. Capitalist’s point of view, it is rare to see our own leaders seeking medical attention from UTH.
Mr. Capitalist , you accuse others of PF mob psych just because you refuse to see their point ? …..The MMD call boys on this blog have a tendency of bringing in PF or Sata each time someone condemns the MMD govt. They tar everyone with the same brush. Even when it’s got nothing to do with PF , they always bring up the PF/Sata issue. Always preaching to others not to insult. …………. Hypocrites !
Mr Capitalist, sometimes its good to keep quiet and not offend people with your comments, we all know that your job on Slater street in Ottawa depends on your comments here and on other forums aswell but please, remember that you are Zambian first before you are a cadre. That hospital doesnt belong to politicians its belongs to all Zambia including your family in Zambia. Lets call a spade a spade, lets not settle for less. No matter what, a hospital should never be like that whether its the Civic hopsital in your Ottawa or UTH. Your Zambian brothers(both PF and MMD) are dying and all you can do is defend these poor conditions? Do you think a disease will wait for your Rupiah to improve the hospitals before it can leave a human body? We need the hospitals to be fixed now and not tomorrow!
good pictures, but have you hard time to know the causes of the problem? when you find out write a good article. zambia should come up with some sought of medial aid. not even in the usa wil you get free medial attention.so pliz research your facts before your article.
our leader see this as normal,it anly becomes not condusive wen they get sick and refuse to be take to UTH instead they are flown out side the country ….May god help them!!
Mr capitalist @ 75, “Well I don’t know if you’re blind but I was speaking in demographic terms. From the time UTH was built, Lusaka had a smaller population compared to now. In short, the hospital has not expanded to the levels where it can accomodate the current population of Lusaka.”
You are able to refere to demography but not able to compare the UTH of 20 years ago and that of today? Seriously only a piture of 20 year ago will tell you how worse UTH is today? Please lets be patriotic but with Zambia at heart not individuals. If GRZ is improving the situation at UTH, then they are not doing enough and you need to accept that than pretending that the situation hasn’t gotten worse at our biggest hospital.
Mr capitalist, why is GRZ not epanding UTH to accomodate the increase in…
As a Zambian I am disappointed with what the pictures have shown. We don’t need university knowledge to control floods being experienced at UTH. The only way out of the mess we are in with health institutions is to put a halt to refering patients outside of the country for medical attention that is not life threatening. Money spage over ent on such trips can be better utilized to improve operations at the health institutions. On the other hand as citizens we are to blame for not showing outrage over such things. For as long as we are passive, our leaders will conclude that all is well. We need more of the Nawakwi thinking to overcome some of these hardships. Let’s face it, she is the only one who I have noticed to be voicing out on health matters periodically. We need to move on.
Excellent pics LT, is this what Simbao calls progress?
Simbao should be serious. You want to attract Zambian medical personnel back to come and work under these crappy conditions. Dickson Jere, I hope you will show these pics to the big man!
Well the pictures are inconclusive. Inconclusive in the sense that the pictures do not tell whether conditions are improving or getting worst. I’ll give an example. In weight loss infomercials, they usually show before and after pictures of the same person to illustrate the results. With the pictures above, well not much of a conclusion can be formed.
Concerning the flood, it is possible it could have been on a bad day. Yes conditions are not the best at UTH but if you have an overcrowding problem, such problems are bound to be prevalent. If Govt tries to do something about it, Mr. Sata makes the front page accusing them of celebrating someone else’s achievements. Damned if you do, Damned if you don’t.
That said, I’m sure the blogger has achieved what he/she initially intended. Not that it is relevant but the above pictures would most definitely pass for the BBC.
Mr. Simbao- I was attracted by the 3000 counsulting jobs you reported to the parliament the other day. I even started packing my kutundu in order for my family and I move back home. But after further consideration and viewing of the UTH photos, I have asked my family to suspend packing. I dont think it will be a wise move for us.Thanks though for the attempt. Hope other patriotic Zambians will come back home and take up the jobs.
Well! what can one say about our beautifull country,it hurts! Zimbabwe had 5billion% inflation just a year ago,i dont think their hospitals are as dire straits as this,Rwanda,Congo DR and Angola which hosted the AfCON were in serious civil strife, look at what they have archieved in the same space that we have been at peace and always proclaiming single digit inflation
Come to think of it,even with this suffering,people will still VOTE for MMD,come next year!
like it or not i think capitalist has got a point. why has our attention been directed to only a small corner of the page? we want to see the WHOLE page so that we can draw our own conclusions. # 2 shame on you jumping to conclusions like this; those of us who in the long term are looking at heading back home to contribute something don’t expect to find the conditions in which we practice here
Mr Capitalist, the pics speak for themselves, no need to be philosophical here. The biggest problem we face in Zed is that we can’t handle the truth. Last time someone took pics of patients sleeping on the floor, UTH mgt tried to cover it up and voilà, those patients dissapeared by the time Simbao went for an on the spot check. Same thing happens everytime RB is scheduled to visit; all of a sudden painters/plumbers/carpenters appear from the blues! My point is, if we really want to see tangible improvements in our infrastructure, let RB and Simbao see it for what it is. Better still, nxt time FJT needs to have his feeble heart checked, let’s send him to a flooded congested ward where ‘chi budiza’ is used as a prop! I bet you if our politicians spent just a few minutes in these…
Thanks for the pics.
But be careful, RB may charge you with pornography or something for taking pictures of UTH.
;)
#3
Your example about Weight loss Informacials, with regards to whether things have improved or not; I’ll refer you back to some pictures the Post Newspaper published showing people sleeping on the floors and in corridors
postzambia.com/post-read_article.php?articleId=13447, so from these pictures can we conclude that things are going from bad to worse,I’ll let other level headed bloggers judge
Concerning the flooding,does it matter whether its a bad day or a good day for a General hospital like UTH not to be flooded?
7 Chilombo; shame on me?? Why is the truth so hard to swallow; a nation that can’t handle honest constructive critcism is a doomed one. If our politicians spent just a few minutes under these conditions at UTH (instead of the plush Morningside), I bet you, the budgetary allocation to Min. of Health would instantly quadruple! Is it too much to ask for basic affordable healthcare for ALL Zambians. We spend billions on countless by-elections yet can’t fix basic things like drainage at UTH? If we cleaned up our act and internal controls, junior civil servants like Kapoko and UTH cashiers wouldn’t be embezzling billions while our poor brothers and sisters put up with such nonsense at the nation’s biggest teaching hospital.
And yet some Shrek look alike is flying between places. last time i heard of the ogre is that he was in brasil and caught a direct flight back to botswana for another of his state visits.
watuletelela iwe Shrek awe kuya bebele mwe!!!!
“Mr Capitalist, the pics speak for themselves, no need to be philosophical here.”
@ #8 Big Pipe
Like I said, the blogger has achieved what he/she intended and I am confident BBC would love those pictures.
It’s not the pictures I am disputing but the conclusions the blogger wants us to reach. This is why I am saying the pictures are inconclusive because I don’t know what to think when I look at the above pictures.
I am well aware that conditions at UTH have been bad for a long time but just from looking at the above pictures, I cannot tell whether the conditions are getting better or worst hence my use of the word inconclusive.
Btw, a prominent politician Katele Kalumba is recieving his treatment from UTH.
Hey! Where is the new Cancer wing? What about the new Lab and the newly built Paediatrics wing? What about the refurbished Blood Bank and the cleanest Virology department in sub Saharan Africa?
Was this whole episode about the G ward only? Did you pick the worst ward and make it your primary subject?
Is this journalism or slanderism?
Like the Chicago General Hospital in the USA, UTH has many pleasing features that will out do the displeasing ones.
Only foo.ls will dispute the fact that the conditions at UTH HAVE NEVER IMPROVED. We dont need proverbs to convince us that place is actually a health hazard. Katele might be admitted there because you always have better wards for those who can afford/politicians. But generally the place is a mess. Why are we even bringing in BBC? BBC is not in charge of UTH. We shouldnt be in denial, institutions like UTH have been run down. MMD cadres SING about development everyday. Do they refer to the pics above?
Mr. Capitalist you can not be serious, no disrespect but you surely must be missing a screw in your head to say the pics are inconclusive. before and after what ?? The hospital wether its before or after should never ever be in that state. There has to be a set standard and then you can commment on improvment from there you cant just accept anything and say at least there has been improvement or not. There should be no flooding in the corridors and patients should never have to use gumbuli’s as weights regardless if it is before or after, might as well do it at home!!
# 15 Anthony Lloyd – PhD Anthropology – Oxford UK . When last were you at UTH? Please spare us the crap. My collegue was once was head of that Virology department you are talking about. I know it very well so stop your cheap propaganda.
#14 Don’t expect praizez when you provide adequately for your family, that iz your obligation. However, should you for some hazy reazon fail to carter for your house-hold, you will definitely be condemned.
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Mr. Capitalist why are you in denial? Indeed the bolgger who posted the photos has achieved what he/she intended. Atleast those of us who do not have a chance to go to UTH are enlightened. LT should block all your stupid comments.
@ #16 Educator
Then I do have some screws loose by your standard because I still maintain the pictures are inconclusive.
Concerning the flooding, just because a hospital should not have flooding does not mean it does not happen. Here in Canada, buildings flood all the time even when they are not supposed to. On LT, people should not insult but others still find a way to insult (despite LT blocking some of the words). Unfortunately that is the reality that is life.
Concerning the standard, how do I set a standard when I only have the above pictures to work with? For all I know, the blogger might have gone to the worst ward and taken pictures there as a “standard” for you bloggers to set concerning the whole hospital.
Mr Capitalist- I read your posts sometimes and think you are usually quite objective but here you have missed the mark.I worked at UTH 10 years ago and I never saw the wards flooded like this.So in that sense maintenance has probably worsened.I like pic 9 it reminds me of the good old days in the surgical wards with prof Krikor.The ward looks exactly the same as it did 10years ago.pic 3 -they now use plastic containers for traction? hope the bricks we used to use did not get expensive or perhaps they are used to fill the sand bags in pic 8.All in all Simbao you can have your UTH I am definately not coming back.But I would like to thank the Zambian government for sponsoring the 7 years of medical education I got.Just don’t understand why you treated us doctors like crap.
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Simbao can you resign immediately or else…………………..
#23 When arguing in such forum, you do not insult people. This just shows, how low you calibre is. Argue sensible and defend your points. If this is our future leaders (Party caders) who are insulting, then I can see that Zambia is going nowhere with such guys. Let get rid of such people.
This is a big concern. Showing the high cost will not make much sense bcoz the majority pipo in Zambia are confined to low cost since they cannot afford to pay medical bills. Therefore, the government has to do something about it.
these pics are depressing.in fact,Zambia is just depressing.
I’ve said before – we don’t have a maintenance culture.The stoneage towers in lusaka,to garbage strewn sidewalks,to blocked drains causing floods on streets and lights out nothing is ever maintained.Unless we have a maintenane culture,independent monitoring/auditing free of political shenanigans and continous renewal with stringent controls and penalties nobody will ever learn.We know we’re in a hole yet we keep digging and expect a different result.Only God knows how many have died at UTH due to contamination,poor sanitation,neglect or infection at UTH yet the family is lied to- “oh, his condition deteriorated”
Thank you for the reality check. So Mr Simbao and entire MMD Cabinet, where are the taxes going if we can’t keep UTH in good order? How long will it be before the new Lusaka District Hospital also begins to look like this???
Hats off to the nurses and doctors and other health personnel who still try to keep the system going in such unfavourable working conditions.
Is this all the LT blogger saw at UTH. Are there no good happenings at UTH? Let us be objective and present issues squarely. Yes the western world will love it especially BBC and will continue showing this. If another Zedian went to the UTH and captured the good happenings and post them here, you will see how many insults will be showered on the one. The first will be “he has been bought” GRZ propaganda etc. I know not things are not well in most areas of our country but certainly i have seen good happenings going on even at UTH.
wow 2 hours into the rainy season.I wonder what it will look like by the middle of the rainy season.For those of you who are saying why not show the good side of UTH,didn’t you see the ‘good ‘ pictures of RB opening some unit and Simbao in some operating threate.The problem is when good pictures are shown you don’t say anything when bad pictures are shown you get all defensive.Would you like to be admitted at UTH? at least we know Zambian politicians wouldn’t like to be admitted there.
How come Sata managed the hospitals well?Maybe the current govt should consult him?The pics are really disgusting and my heart goes to every poor soul that goes to this hospital?
How has the govt resolved the kapoko saga together with that doctor who pleaded for mercy from the president because they are both from the same village?
Nkalanda you made my day lol! You instructed your family to suspend packing ha ha ha! By the way there is no water in UHT at night.
Its not only UTH, most public infrastructure in Zambia is collapsing in free fall. Make a visit to UNZA.
Zambia is a poor country. Running a health service is not cheap. If more money was spent on health, then less money would have to be spent in other areas such as education and infrastructure construction. Lets not forget the positives that have been done such as the new hospital or clinic in Chawama. New equipment has been bought for UTH and let us see whether or not the mobile clinics might actually work instead of talking them down before they have even started to operate. Not many countries in Africa have an efficient health service. Even South Africa struggles to provide adequate health care for its people. If you want to see how bad things could be just watch the healthcare provision in some other African countries on youtube. You will be thankful that we have UTH.
@Mr. Capitalist – 3 E’s steering economic growth: You are a clasic case of someone surfering the all too common disease called “DENAIAL”!!! How one can look at these pictures and still think such horable conditions are acceptable in a hospital is, politely put, LUNANCY!!
Are you really telling us that it matter less beacuse it just one, two, or three wards that are in shambols? You live in Canada, do really think that the Canadian govt would tolerate such conditions
Mr Capitalist, you have a problem and you need help.
@Mr. Capitalist – 3 E’s steering economic growth:
You are a classic case of someone suffering from the all-too-ommon disease called “DENAIAL”! How one can look at those pictures and still think such horrible conditions are acceptable in a hospital is, politely put, utter LUNANCY!!
s really make it less egregious if it only a small portion of UTH that is in such deplorable conditions? Even KK, who was a semi-dictator, did not allow such nonsen.s.e at UTH. We have so called “educated leaders” in govt, and yet look where they have taken our country; TO THE DOG.S!
Isn’t Rupiah and his clique even ashamed when they go on their touristic escapades, see how other world leaders have developed their nations’ infrastructure, and then come home to substandard living conditions?
Oops! Sorry, DISREGARD my incomplete comments at @36. I pushed a wrong key before I was done!!!!
No comment because it hurts to see such miserable things in our country..
@ #38 Yambayamba
Quote me were I have said such horrible conditions are acceptable.
#3.@Mr. Capitalist.-Concerning the flood, it is possible it could have been on a bad day. Surely, out of millions of thoughts how can someone think like that? Those floods you see there are due to POOR, BAD or NO drainage system at all. And this is all about BAD GOVERNANCE, CORRUPTION, POOR EDUCATION SYSTEM, BAD HEALTH CARE CONDITION and VERY BAD SYSTEM OF TACKLING POVERTY.
To you all ‘learned’ experts armchair-critiquing from poshy foreign lands, I guess you’d would you feel very proud coming back home to a more improved ZED after your more patrotic colleagues have sacrificed all their worth for their motherland! I have considerable respect for sons of the land like Dr Manda & Dr Lemba, to mention but a few, (who by the way, any varsity worldwide would gladly welcome) as well as those in the diaspora who choose to keep quiet having realized that condemning your own country, which you freely abandoned, from alien lands is the hight of cowardice!
# 41 Mr. Capitalist – 3 E’s steering economic growth . You really want to be smart. You dont put it straight that those conditions are acceptable but from your comments it is clear that you dispute that UTH is in a bad state. # 35 Chibolya We dont dispute that other countries struggle in providing health services but their so called TOP hospitals are in VERY good conditions. UTH is our MAIN hospital and we ARE NOT THAT POOR to run it properly. We DONT want to accept poor standards. You dont even know whether the health facility in Chawama is a Clinic or Hospital so stop supporting blindly.
Yep as much as i would like to condemn too, but these pictures are just way to limited to represent the whole of UTH
@ #44 Motsepe
If you’re judging based on my “comments” simply implies that it is your opinion that you think I dispute that UTH is in a bad state. Unless you have a direct quote, that is simply your opinion which unfortunately I have to respect in a democracy.
Read through my comments once again (this time, dump the PF mob psych and actually read through) and you’ll understand were my position is.
dog hospitals here, are spotless and posh compared to the filth am seeing above!
Dear Pauline Mbangweta, UTH PRM
It will be of public interest you give us an update of Dr. Lumba Kalumba Katele’s current condition. Katele like any other public figures has a wider following who have not been able to make to UTH would klike to be updated on his condition say every 24hrs. Looking at the pictueres on the blog did these affect his ward. Any way why has Kalumba Katele not been evacuated abroad for specialist treatment? I wish papa Kalumba Katele Wazabanga Wamilele Bwana DR a quick recovery. Lumba dont cry the man will pull thru.
I sense alot of debate as to whether the blogger who took these pictures meant to expose the bad side of UTH, or never bothered to show us the good side. Some of you argue that this is one sided reporting. Rightly so, there are places within UTH that are adorable. But the fact of the matter is, there should be no section of this hospital that should be deplorable. There is no excuse for the flooding. Once we as a people start accepting mediocrity, then we accelerate the underdevelopment of our own country. We have to develop standards in our lives and learn to appreciate that a good hospital environment is our birth-right. We cannot afford the luxury of half good and half bad. We should not accept the status quo as a reality. Last, Zambians, please show maturity in debating such issues.
MMD at work.please vote for me so that i can continue to go for trips and leave your Zambia to rot..vote for me dull Zambians..
#50 Banda lol………
Mr. Capitalist leave Zambia to the poor Zambians and enjoy your comfort in Canada if you are a diplomat or studying on a government bursery. When was the last time you were in Zambia if I may ask Sir.
Fair view there #3 but floods shouldn’t be allowed in the hospital.UTH has contracted companies who do the cleaning and they need to be accountable for those floods because they have a contract to do just that kind of job.The wards look clean,even the sluice room looks clean.Improvising a weight with a plastic container of water is fine as long as the weight of the container is what the doc wanted.If everyone started to use their common sense and improvise whenever needed then zambia would be a better place.I don’t see nothing wrong with the linen bin.If the photographer’s aim was to paint a groom picture of UTH then I think he has failed.He needs to re-do his work.Let him consult how it’s done.
# 3 Mr Capitalist,
Am not a Zambian,but i once stayed in Zambia and i had been to your hospital in the capital of Lusaka.Am disappointed with you,just to say the least,those pictures are self explainatory.When were you last in Zambia you must be a big fool!You should be visiting your country jack ass.
Thank you for the pictures. Great job Sir/Madam. Sad, sad imwe banthu shuwa this is unacceptable. I’m speechless.
@ Mr Capitalist
Your philosophical spin doesn’t wash to be quite honest. So what if the pictures were taken from the worst ward? These pictures merely highlight a sad tale of infrastructure dilapidation in Zambia. I personally think it’s an affront to the Zambian people for you to philosophize this appalling situation at UTH while you’re sitting pretty in Canada; enjoy first class medical facilities which your compatriot s will never access at this rate of misrule. Shame on you! This is not about politics; it is about our biggest hospital in Zambia providing top class medical care. “Btw, a prominent politician Katele Kalumba is recieving his treatment from UTH.” I will also “Btw” you..do you know that the majority of Zambians can not afford the Fast Track VIP Ward where Katele Kalumba…
Zambia has always been ‘potentially rich’. It is poor because of the non-exploitation of a diversity of resources, mismanagement of the available ones, inequitable distribution of wealth, lack of prioritising and a culture of accepting mediocrity. UTH should certainly be better than it is. Our prioritizing is poor. We love to spend on superficial structures and needless luxury. Ordinarily, there is need to develop a sense of being happier with a good affordable health system, quality education and a social net, than being able to afford unnecessary luxuries.
Appaling indeed, ridiculous.
These pictures tell a lot about our leaders. No even a mad man needs to be told that the situation at the biggest hospital in the capital is an eye sore. Why do we vote? When Banda sees these kind of pictures, what does he think in that big head of his. That’s not normal. Zambians vote wisely next year.
If Banda can cut on some of those trips, I think we can fix most of the problems in those pictures. It a shame to our leaders who always rush to SA when the are sick. WHAT A SHAME.
The question you need to ask is “does Mr Banda, Mr Chiluba or any other members of government present or past” use UTH as their primary care facility ? if the answer is no…..then i rest my case.
These pictures are misleading. they are one sided aimed at making UTH look rotten. I don’t like this kind of reporting. Its like the way the western media put all people from Zed and other african countries like you all sleep in trees. bad reporting… s.u.c.k.s. ..and hues what I’m entitled to my opinion which is correct.
Go UTH …treat your patients with the little resources you have…..
You can try to shut me up as much as you want. I still stick to my guns. Like I said, if you want to know my view, read my posts again without PF mob psych.
It is easy for you guys to condemn in the comforts of your lavish posh London and Perth townhouses but as for me, I will commend and support any govt effort at making things better in the nation regardless of how small because I understand were Zambia was 20 to 30 years ago.
What do you expect when all the money is being spent on holiday trips by uncaring, overzealous, arrogant and thieving leaders. Be rest assured all you lot, you shall pay for these crimes.
i wouldn’t work there thats why i left. everyone in a senior position at u.t.h owes me an explaination. these guys drive posh cars and yet they work in such a place, try to use some common sence and make the place better.
@41, Mr. Capitalist – 3 E’s steering economic growth:
@3: “…Well the pictures are inconclusive. Inconclusive in the sense that the pictures do not tell whether conditions are improving or getting worst…”
Now, going by your example, if any reasonable person sees the before and after pics of a 400 lb over-weight person and they still look the same or even bigger, what conclusions should an intelligent person draw from that? That the pictures are lying? We have seen UTH pics before, sir! And conditions seems to be getting worse; where have you been?!
@41, Mr. Capitalist – 3 E’s steering economic growth:
@3: “…Concerning the flood, it is possible it could have been on a bad day…”
Now you have got to be kidding me! Did a hurricane hit UTH on this bad day you are referring to? Floods in Lusaka are an “every-rainy-season” occurrence, you would think the govt has wised up about this already. But with people like you who are willing to find excuses on behalf of the govt, our leaders have zero incentives to improves things in our country. ONE WANDERS WHY WE EVEN HAVE GOVT—IS IT FOR PLUNDER ALONE?!
@41, Mr. Capitalist – 3 E’s steering economic growth:
@4: “…I’m sure the blogger has achieved what he/she initially intended. Not that it is relevant but the above pictures would most definitely pass for the BBC…”
Are you telling me only people at BBC can see that there is indeed something wrong with the state of public our infrastructure looking at those pictures? Please don’t insult people’s intelligence, sir!
By the way, what are the conclusions you think the “LT blogger” who posted the pics wanted us to reach? If any, well, it is obvious he/she hasn’t succeeded, because you yourself seems to have reached a different conclusion than the one you think the pictures were intended for—- SO STOP THE ACCUSATIONS!
@41, Mr. Capitalist – 3 E’s steering economic growth:
@3: “… Yes conditions are not the best at UTH but if you have an overcrowding problem, such problems are bound to be prevalent…@13: It’s not the pictures I am disputing but the conclusions the blogger wants us to reach…”
Am, I blind?! Because I don’t see any overcrowding in those pictures, so how did you reach this conclusion by looking at the pictures, sir?! YET YOU ACUSE THE “POSTER” OF THE PICS TO HAVE AN AGENDA OF TRYING TO DUPE LT BLOGGERS/READERS INTO REACHING A PRECONCIEVED CONCLUSION!!
I would be glad if conditions at UTH were JUST GOOD, NOT even the BEST, but JUST GOOD! That’s all people are asking for, sir!!
NOW, Mr. Capitalist, people can read between the lines, alright!!
@41, Mr. Capitalist – 3 E’s steering economic growth:
They say: “A PICTURE IS WORTH A THOUSAND WORDS.” Does this mean anything to you?!!!!!
Iam speechless! so the floods have now reached the UTH hosptal!!!! its no longer just chawama compound, Zambians how bad must things get before you think of changing leaders?? chibudiza for a weight? that can’t be past! having been trained and worked at UTH those features are new! there is something seriously wrong with our leaders, they have no conscience at all.
@ #65 Yambayamba
The point is to see if the person is improving. That was the point I was making. If the 400lb person is still 400lbs after say 6 months then there is no improvement. If the 400lb person is 328lbs after six months (it is encouraged that you should lose 3 lbs a week if you want to lose the pounds in a healthy way) then there is an improvement. That was the point.
I never said the pictures are lying. Quote me on that….I dare you.
@ #66 Yambayamba
And who is in charge of LSK city if I may ask??? Isn’t it the council?? The reality is floods do happen. Even here in Canada, buildings flood all the time. I doubt it is an everyday occurrence at UTH but I cannot tell that just with the above pictures hence the phrase inconclusive.
@ #67 Yambayamba
quote, “Are you telling me only people at BBC can see that there is indeed something wrong with the state of public our infrastructure looking at those pictures?” end quote.
I never said that. I dare you to quote me on this.
cont…
quote, “what are the conclusions you think the “LT blogger” who posted the pics wanted us to reach?” end quote.
Well I cannot tell you that. I can only speculate. The LT blogger is the only one who can answer that question.
@ #68 Yambayamba
quote“Am, I blind?! Because I don’t see any overcrowding in those pictures, so how did you reach this conclusion by looking at the pictures, sir?! YET YOU ACUSE THE “POSTER” OF THE PICS TO HAVE AN AGENDA OF TRYING TO DUPE LT BLOGGERS/READERS INTO REACHING A PRECONCIEVED CONCLUSION!!” end quote.
Well I don’t know if you’re blind but I was speaking in demographic terms. From the time UTH was built, Lusaka had a smaller population compared to now. In short, the hospital has not expanded to the levels where it can accomodate the current population of Lusaka. Solutions would be to either expand UTH or build and upgrade alternative hospitals like the Chawama hospital or the LSK Gen. Hospital.
I never accused the poster of having an “agenda”…
cont..
I never accused the poster of having an “agenda” to “dupe” LT bloggers/readers into reaching a preconceived conclusion. Quote me where I said this.
@ #69 Yambayamba
That once again provides credence to my statement that the pictures are inconclusive. For example, if you go to see your investment banker concerning some stocks and they tell you they expect the value of this stock to be somewhere between $20 and $90. Well that is not telling you anything is it because there are too many possibilities concerning the price of the stock hence you would be extremely skeptical.
However if your investment banker tells you “based on historical data and current market trends, we expect the stock to be somewhere between $40 and $45″, that is telling you something because now you can confidently make a decision or conclusion on whether you should invest or not.
So if a picture is worth a thousand words, it is not telling you much or anything at all. So if the above pictures are worth a thousand words, you cannot reach a concrete conclusion hence my phrase inconclusive.
I’m done with this topic now. Before you attack me with PF mob psych, actually read what I have written to understand my position.
UTH is not the only hospital in this condition other like Kitwe Cental Hospital are worse! i had an opportunity to visit the hospital- low cost when i go to see friends who are in a preveledged position as i am. Capitalist.. you are the people who are causing trouble in our country and give false impression to leaders. your jagons of inconclusiveness amount to nothing. Its just like those arguments about the definition of poverty, whether you explain it in whatever theoritical or conceptual framework the answer is the same for Africa… Many people go hungry.. so Mr Capitalist if Canada is blinding you dont anger us, i am in the Europe right now but memories of my suffering friends and family are fresh. Capitalist, your comments are an insult to logic and humanity
@71-78, Mr. Capitalist – 3 E’s steering economic growth
Sir, being CLEVER does not necessarily mean being SMART! And what you are trying to do here is to simply act clever when you fully know what you are saying is ridiculous.
And what is overcrowding got to do with what you see in the pics above, sir? This is exactly my point in saying that “a pic is worth a thousand words”. Basically what it means is that you don’t need someone else to convince you otherwise, in so many words, when you can see it for yourself in a pic!! But you seem to have missed that one too.
PF mob psych or not, people are reacting to your comments because they are simply beneath someone enlightened and intelligent like you, sir! It has nothing to do with political affiliations—and I am NO PF!
I pray to God that countries like South Africa will BAN treatment to former presidents, ministers, current and former politicians including opposition leaders who rush to Johannesburg for treatment. It will make them look at the local facillities and pay more attention to local hospitals. PLEASE JACOB ZUMA, BAN THESE AFRICANS FROM COMING TO SEEK TREATMENT IN SOUTH AFRICA. BAN THEM, BAN THEM, BAN THEM…..PLEASE WE BEG YOU!!!!!!!!
#77 Capitalist, please stay away from your analogy of an investment banker and stocks. You are totally confusing the situation at UTH with this analogy. Please note, I am not questioning your intelligence, but just that you lack an understanding between the two issues.
These pictures are evidence of a failed national health management. They really leave one wondering how the patients even manage to recover under such conditions. Patients have the right to be treated in a clean and functioning environment.
There is also no excuse that our government can give for such failed management seeing that there is enough tax money and donor funds allocated to health services. It’s no wonder the high society gets flown out everytime for treatment. But what about the rest of the nation who can’t afford? They have no choice.
TOO MANY BLIND SUPPORTS**==
#62. @Mr. Capitalist. Sorry for telling you this, I think you’re sick. So are you telling me that, those floods you’re seeing there are of a good effort at making things better in the nation? The days of Kaunda or Mwanawasa, may his soul rest in peace, we could not have floods in the Hospital.
The greatest mistake which I knew the gov had committed was to give in to IMF demands of pruning health workers! No country on earth (with the exception possibly of Cuba) has enough health care personnel! When we went (I was one of those who left), I knew a catastrophe was soon to be seen! I feel for the patient! The second is the funding! My best time at KCH was when Sata was Minister of Health! Bring that old man! He knows the job!
You can have a beautiful shopping mall like Manda Hill and the most important building is 1000 times worse than the mall. If RB just sacrificed one trip alone that alone would be enough to fix a ward in UTH. I personally went to UTH last year visiting my relative, I absolutely did not feel comfortable being there. I felt really bad just looking around at the patients subjected to sleep on beds that look and feel so uncomfortable and absolute no privacy. The walls and floors smell terrible.
RB needs a field trip to the hospital. He does not need to be traveling around the world like a headless chicken!
Vote Magande 2011
UTH oh please..are you seriously telling us we cannot control that fllooding into the corridors? we don’t need a rocket scientist to figure this out.The problem in Zambia is, we are focused too much into politics and things that don’t really matter than simple solutions. how much money do we need to hire a contractor to solve a stupid drainage system..common on now..where is the CEO of UTH? can’t he see this.The more reason we need the likes of Mr. Michael Chilufya Sata he would definately fire the fool that is running UTH without question.Sometimes i get very passionate about little things like these.it is not complicated to hire a contractor.And we put up posters to justify our inertia..all foolishness
#35 Would you like to drive on a world class road to a poor hospital or would you rather drive on a poor road to a world class hospital? Zambia has neither. So, your point was?
I am sure it is common knowledge that Lusaka is too populated and UTH cannot cope with the demand especially that the number of medical personnel has not increased due to unattractive working conditions at the institution. As much as I respect Mr. Capitalist’s point of view, it is rare to see our own leaders seeking medical attention from UTH.
Mr. Capitalist , you accuse others of PF mob psych just because you refuse to see their point ? …..The MMD call boys on this blog have a tendency of bringing in PF or Sata each time someone condemns the MMD govt. They tar everyone with the same brush. Even when it’s got nothing to do with PF , they always bring up the PF/Sata issue. Always preaching to others not to insult. …………. Hypocrites !
Mr Capitalist, sometimes its good to keep quiet and not offend people with your comments, we all know that your job on Slater street in Ottawa depends on your comments here and on other forums aswell but please, remember that you are Zambian first before you are a cadre. That hospital doesnt belong to politicians its belongs to all Zambia including your family in Zambia. Lets call a spade a spade, lets not settle for less. No matter what, a hospital should never be like that whether its the Civic hopsital in your Ottawa or UTH. Your Zambian brothers(both PF and MMD) are dying and all you can do is defend these poor conditions? Do you think a disease will wait for your Rupiah to improve the hospitals before it can leave a human body? We need the hospitals to be fixed now and not tomorrow!
good pictures, but have you hard time to know the causes of the problem? when you find out write a good article. zambia should come up with some sought of medial aid. not even in the usa wil you get free medial attention.so pliz research your facts before your article.
our leader see this as normal,it anly becomes not condusive wen they get sick and refuse to be take to UTH instead they are flown out side the country ….May god help them!!
Mr capitalist @ 75, “Well I don’t know if you’re blind but I was speaking in demographic terms. From the time UTH was built, Lusaka had a smaller population compared to now. In short, the hospital has not expanded to the levels where it can accomodate the current population of Lusaka.”
You are able to refere to demography but not able to compare the UTH of 20 years ago and that of today? Seriously only a piture of 20 year ago will tell you how worse UTH is today? Please lets be patriotic but with Zambia at heart not individuals. If GRZ is improving the situation at UTH, then they are not doing enough and you need to accept that than pretending that the situation hasn’t gotten worse at our biggest hospital.
Mr capitalist, why is GRZ not epanding UTH to accomodate the increase in…
As a Zambian I am disappointed with what the pictures have shown. We don’t need university knowledge to control floods being experienced at UTH. The only way out of the mess we are in with health institutions is to put a halt to refering patients outside of the country for medical attention that is not life threatening. Money spage over ent on such trips can be better utilized to improve operations at the health institutions. On the other hand as citizens we are to blame for not showing outrage over such things. For as long as we are passive, our leaders will conclude that all is well. We need more of the Nawakwi thinking to overcome some of these hardships. Let’s face it, she is the only one who I have noticed to be voicing out on health matters periodically. We need to move on.
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