GOVERNMENT says it will seize the frozen assets and properties belonging to former president Frederick Chiluba and 11 others immediately the London High Court judgement is registered in the Zambian courts.
Speaking on “Eyeball to eyeball†Muvi TV programme on Monday night, Chief Government spokesperson, Mike Mulongoti, said if there was no appeal from the defendants, Government would have no choice but ask the court to have the frozen assets seized.
“The determination was arrived at by the London Royal Court by Judge Peter Smith and in this case, the Zambian Government won the case.
So we shall proceed to ask for the frozen assets such as money and properties after the 14 days ultimatum in which Dr Chiluba is supposed to pay the Zambian Government has elapsed,” he said.
The London court issued a worldwide freezing order on Dr Chiluba’s and other defendants’ properties.
Mr Mulongoti has since urged Dr Chiluba to respect the court ultimatum and pay back the Zambian Government the amount requested of him.
Mr Mulongoti who is also Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services said Dr Chiluba should pay back the money or make an appeal before bailiffs were engaged.
He also wondered why Dr Chiluba was not recognising the judgement since the court offered the accused a chance to defend themselves.
“The court sat in camera and you remember that the Chikwa Court was rehabilitated in order to make it comfortable for those who could not travel abroad for the hearing, but some people shunned that, and you know it is not good to say that I would never appear before the court because it would be the same court one might make an appeal to after the judgement,” he said.
He said legal experts were studying the judgement and would soon conclude the matter.
In another development, Mr Mulongoti described threats by Southern Province Minister Joseph Mulyata to close down Sky FM Radio, a private radio station in Monze, as unfortunate.
He said at no time did Government harbour such intentions aimed at threatening media growth in the country.
“As Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services, please get it from me that Sky FM Radio will still remain operational and it was regrettable that such a statement was made against a radio station when the minister toured the institution,” he said.
The minister appealed to private radio stations to ensure that they operated within the law.
“We don’t want to have a situation where radio stations encourage anarchy in the country.
During last year’s tripartite elections, we had a radio station which was inciting anarchy when election results were being announced,” he said.
He pledged to support the growth of the media industry but called for cooperation from media houses.
“As Government, we have to be careful because not all information gotten by the media can be put to good use, and we don’t want media houses to abuse their authority,†he said.
This I have to see!!!..a former president repaying money..!!!…If it does happen …well done to the state!!!
LPM and your govt a shame, populist politics wont solve Zambia’s financial quagmire, there is great depression in Zambia where the poor are the most hit.Change your priorities and concentrate on much more meaningful programs than this witch hunting type of mediocre leadership.Its sickening leave FTJ to the courts and will see how shallow your imaginations are to allow a muzungu to take over your rights.Put in a constititution which will severely disable some of your primogenitive type of behaviour.
Well let this be an example to every leader that you may think you are smart now, but the law will visit you one day bravo to LPM. Chiluba must pay back.
Fellow zambians some of you are exhibiting some very serious emotional instability.Its either some of you are sponsered contributors or Levy really denied you the joy of your life.Levy would be the last man to see what is happening to chiluba.If the man had a way to get chiluba off the hook he could have done that a long time ago.But the guy has no choice because the pipo will not let him.Do you remember what almost happened to bulaya?He almost got nollie prosecue.Chiluba might be you family and you can attack Levy,your guns are in wrong direction.Calm down control your emotions and take a deep breath as you prepare to witness the sizure of his assets.In case you are still in disbelief this is the direction this matter is going.Even if something happened to levy chiluba is not getting that momey period.Sorry short prepare for the worst.
Why has it taken so long to register in the High Court? They make it sound easy, lets wait and see.
Can this govt also explain why the cases are taking so long in zambia. They seem to be very eager to register this case, rather than dispose of the local cases. I guess the response will be he is too ill to attend. However, we still have to await the defence in the local cases; so many have been quashed before, one wonders whether the remaining are heading for the same fate; hence maybe the reason all hopes are hinged on this one.
LAZ hasn’t appeared impartial in this case, wonder why, would it have anything to do with the state of the Law fraternity as described by the Attorney General, a few weeks back?
Mwabanthu please give big Levi the credit he truelly deserves.
Kuku, seizing shoti’s frozen assets will not immediatly solve the whatever financial quagmires you are thinking about but this process will definatelly serve reminder to all politicians that no a$$ can sit above the law.
Long live BIG LEVI
What Mike means when he refers “enocourage anarchy…abuse their authority” is that they criticise his govt (no matter the legitimacy of their motivation). This is utterly disgraceful.
FJT,’on second thoughts’ hinted about appealing against Judge Smith’s judgment. If he won’t appeal the law will have to take its course by seizing FJT’s assets both at home and abroad. There are no two ways about this and FJT’s spin doctoring won’t reverse the judgment. The government should be commended for the job well done. Indeed this serves as a reminder to every political leader including LPM himself that it does not pay to misapproriate public funds and that the end result of such malpractice is devastating.
Allow me to express my personal opinion on what is going on in Zambia as regards Kafupi. In order to maintain integrity of the office of the President and indeed any public office, let those found wanting lose their entitlements after leaving office be it President or not. Alot of people have suffered and died due to depression while Kafupi and his cloonies syphooned the money that if it were put to good use could have created more jobs. Imagine graduates with BAs, BScs, etc loaming the streets and being virtually turned into beggars coz there is no jobs available – you gotta be kidding me. Wait for the 14 days to elapse and if there is no response – SEIZE any property GRZ can lay it’s hands on – and escort Kafupi to Mukobeko to serve a life sentence. Please there is gotta be accountability at all levels – no exceptions. Our future generations will have nothing – it’s time we stopped being myopic and focus on creating wealth for the future generations. Now this is just my opinion.
Court bailifs!, ok. sounds fair for now.
hehehehehehehehehe..Those of you who read and understand body language, would see that Chiluba and Regina are showing seriously level of stress..Those smiles are not complete, but window dressing. Regina is even thinking of the easy route out of this messy..after all kamudala is moving towards impotence and no lucres to spend on her.
I still believe the govt should have begun by freezing the assets and money first, then FTJ would have challenged it in court, just as FTJ froze Vera’s assets and money,but because she knew where the origin of everything,she did not challenge it in the “competent” courts of law.
Daka, you know what ,its not the judgement issue now its the process after judgement which is of great concern.Much as it sounded easy to enforce the judgement on the local courts the same characters lawyers are having difficulties where to start from.It appears there were alot of oversights, the AG mentioned that they were working on modalities to register the case meaning nothing was done to prepare for such an eventuality, in their wisdom or lack of they thot Smith will enforce this on the assets abroad using his facilities , big joke, now they are caught pants down.If it was that easy today we should have been talking ‘spanish’ not the usual hulababalas
I am starting to think that chiluba is so ashamed that he can not challenge the london judgement by appealing or ortherwise.He is now throwing mud everywhere instead of just vigorasily estblishing the case this is his money.I have never seen a person whose money has been taken and yet dose not defend the money that he suffered for.We all know how we break our backs to accumulate wealth and if anybody tries to deprrieve us of that, we can fight anybody in any field politically religiously and ortherwise.
Kuku #13,my friend,with lawyers,there is nothing like an oversight. They always know the outcome and are always prepared for anything,because they know how to confuse amongst themselves. A lawyer can promise you freedom even when you’ve committed first-class murder. So there are never oversight in legal cases.
Kayata I agree with you but orchestrated cases like this one people should excercise utter caution than just taking things for granted.Smith in London is just laughing at these black heads whilst he is busy washing down his whisky plus his commission from Queen Elizabeth.Zambia has failed to impress me especially after 43years of liberation,I wish the white man had continued until 1995 may be we would not be in the position we are today, he could have left us at par with RSA.
Tepapa mwaona nomba efilya ichibemba chisosa ati ‘Uku tangila tekufika’ Wesu what he didn’t know is that one day he will at the wrong side of the face but kukosafye
Kuku, i agree with you, A look at HongKong, they learnt something from their colonisers, then they said we can be free now, the era of colonisation is finished. But look at our case,an era of thugs,kwame, nyerere,kk, mugabe,lumumba,mobutu, amin,not forgetting amin and babagida,abacha etc all nothing but thugs.
Smith and the Zambian gov. are behaving like very young kids. How can you tell somebody that stole(if) to return at least 85% of the loot and that person actually does it. Where on earth is the logic. If FTJ has to be pardoned or granted amnesty, let LPM do it. It will not make any difference even if his assets are seized. We will just open up those assets for further theiving. Has the Task Force on corruption accounted for any of the assets seized from X. Chungu? Come on people. Let’s be reasonable.
KC, you are absolutely right my brother,accountability is the cancer Zambia is still suffering from.The bible is very clear Mt26:11 ,’you will always be with the poor’in all these only the poor are the worst hit.The rich -poor gap keep widening and no one knows when it will end.People who were heading the task force to start with are not clean, so how do you expect sincerity?This fool Mark Chona even had guts to justify why they let Shansonga flee through Zimbabwe not even thru Lusaka International Airport, can you see how the meaning of ‘corruption’ has been misapplied?Its a fallacy to be in Zambia but my consolation KC is Psalms 9:12
Nani akatupokololako kuli bamambala aba?
Daka ba Joze wants your email address
Well, people it looks like FTJ wont survive on this one. His lawyers have not acted till now for any appeal.Where can they appeal is itin Zambia or London courts? LPM has a formidable team of lwayer in the name of Mutembo brothers.Can Mulongoti please furnish the Zambian populous with what assets Chiluba has at home and abroad? I know of Bahamas was one of the transit point of the Fraud by Chiluba.
Don’t abuse the bible, lets just be analytical and leave it at that.
I dont think there is an issue with ‘Enforcing the judgement’. The court proces might have been more costly than what follows.
#23 are you one of the followers of David Universal Temple? Who tells you quoting the bible is abuse,you must be crazy,you chaps who distance yourselves from the bible do crazy things like LPM is doing to FTJ,one thing you learn from GOd is to show compassion and fellow feeling for others.(Mt23:8)If you are a pagan please dont respond proceed otherwise.
#23 the Bible is our guide to these situations. Referencing it is not abuse. We need prayer and GOD’s intervention to carry out duties bestowed upon us. It is because our leaders lack in faith that we find ourselves in these situations. If leadership id ordained by GOD, why can’t we quote it in our discussions. It is the only true light anyway
Ive just stumbled on this site, i didnt know such a live, mature zambian blog exists. I used to contribute to that lousy(infested with obscenity) Zambian online forum. I regret having wasted my time on that tandabube. Thank God am here finally, and i have enjoyed reading the comments, debates and contributions from fellow Zedis. Long live this joint, long live Zed
Praises, praises, what is wrong with us Zambians?Nothing has been effected yet and here we are praising LPM,for what? This is a gimmick why dont you read between the lines.FTJ will not have his assets frozen.He will appeal and appeal and the circus will go on until we get tired and forget about the whole thing and the issue will die a natural death.If LPM is serious the case should be registered soonest in the High court and FTJ’s assets should be siezed now
#14 i presume FTJ does not want to rush to talk because what he would say might give a hint of how to make sure his pinned down.Just like da third term issue he dint rush to say anything till the end,he said it wasnt a national debate but party.I also guess he is waiting for the case to be registered in zambian courts.(it lookis to me like it wont be registered until after 14 days or…, it should have been done by now).Kuku #20 you have just got your answer its me!
The only people who can develop our country to be even far much better than RSA is not foreign investor we sing about in Zambia.It is you and me my brothers and sisters fellow zambians.We first should believe in ourselves that we can do it then we will succeed.The tendency i have noticed in many zambians think only foreigners can make it for us.When even we go overseas we dont want to go back to our country to countribute from what we have learnt. we want to remain in the foreign land.Think about it and lets work togethr.
Chiluba is just a stupid foolish thief who should just surrend all the stolen items and cash to the people of Zambia.
Shameless thief, just shut up, stupid fool.
Chimwemwe (JHB) (#27); The court that has passes judgement on a case has a part to play when the accused wants to appeal to a higher court. In this case the London High Court has a very important role to play if Chiluba’s intended appeal is to be successiful.
But this is the same court of law chiluba branded as “Illegitimate” and “Racist”. His chances of getting a successiful appeal is not even impossible, “IT IS SLIGHTLY BELOW IMPOSSIBLE”!!! What do i mean? It has a negative probability. Those of you who have had the prevaledge to go to school will agree with me that such a thing cannot happen. It has never been heard of anywhere in the universe, atleast upon to this point in human civilization!!
Chiluba has himself to blame!! Period.
Levi must remember that he will not be in power forever, and when, say, the Tonga will come to power, they will treat his people as callously as he is treating Bembas and Northerners.
Chimwemwe (JHB) (#27); The court that passes judgement on a case has a part to play when the accused wants to appeal to a higher court. In this case the London High Court has a very important role to play if Chiluba’s intended appeal is to be successiful.
But this is the same court of law chiluba branded as “Illegitimate†and “Racistâ€. His chances of getting a successiful appeal is NOT EVEN IMPOSSIBLE, “IT IS SLIGHTLY BELOW IMPOSSIBLEâ€!!! What do i mean? It has a negative probability. Those of you who have had the priviledge to go to school will agree with me that such a thing cannot happen. It has never been heard of anywhere in the universe, atleast up to this point in human civilization!!
Chiluba has himself to blame!! Period.
Its now on record Chiluba is a criminal,wether he pays back or not.Am happy Chiluba has NO peace of mind.
For KUKU like I said before please accept that Chiluba is gone,start strategising.
For President LPM,you have done what the majority of Zambians have been asking for.May God bless you.
Am missing Ba Joze !!! Where is he???????
Shimpundu FUSEKI,ifi mano ifyashalila,we are living in the modern world,gone are the days when leaders would want to go after their predecessors.LOOK at Ka chiluba he was just thinking and doing like you think,pursuing our Grandfather Kaunda,in Kabwe and house arrests,but did short man achieve?Listen boy God is thier to protect the rightious and the citzens and the international community.LET ME ASK YOU,HAVE YOU HEARD ANYTHING FROM MANDELA,BUSH,BLAIR,OR SADC LEADERS THAT LPM IS PURSUING chiluba?
Shimpundu (#31); There are so many bemba’s walking the streets of freedom without any persecution from LPM. Do you know why? It is becoz they are clean. They are not thieves, like Chiluba and his bemba friends.
I am Bemba myself and i am happy to say that when LPM SC first made a public address at state house, the day after chiluba was stripped off his immunity, i was in that audience at state house and there were alot of bembas in that audience. If the issue is about Bemba, why were the bembas in that audience not part of the people being prosecuted? I suppose it is because tribe is not the issue here!!! Chiluba should not be shielded just because he is bemba. The law knows no tribe.
Shimpundu, if LPM SC was prosecuting people because of their tribe, you would be in Prison by now!!!
Kuku #20 the answer to your question is God not that devils worshipper who is claiming he can serve us #28 and even LPM and his millions in MMD will not serve this nation, because they are no different from Chiluba. This country is christian nation, so when one quote the Bible, because it is our guidance. So u pipo who are getting worked up because one has quoted bible, is because you have different master (you know who). For us and the entire nation (my prayer) our Master is the Word of God, which became Fresh and lived among us – JESUS who is forgiving Lord.
Am missing Ba Joze !!! Where is he??????? PLZ TELL ME WHERE HE IS ……….
Jude (#38) He went to the Village in southern province. I hear he went to pick up his 9th wife. Let me just date you, instead. hahaha!!
Does this mean we still have to build him a house????
Iwe Jude ulimushimbe?Wafuma kwisa? Kuti wafwaya ba Ba Joze inonshita, balecilisha ku monze.email him he is using Katele Kalumba’s satelite dish
Sweetinuk, have you just come back to life after posting #1?
Well, we just have to wait while our Law fraternity give us some direction as to what modus operandi will be employed once the 14 days have elapsed. What I can say is, as long as this case hasn’t been registered in zambia, FTJ can only sit back & wait, becoz there is nothing to appeal about. After registration, I expect that’s when he will deploy his defence team to appeal or push for injunctions against seizures. I guess his defence team is working frantically to look for ways to punch holes in the way this judgement is applied, as we all know this is unprecedented, the law relies alot on precedents, not to say precedents cannot be set.
Lets wait & see.
serves u right chiluba, he made the people of zambia suffer n he sure must pay his dues, what goes round must come round.
#43 you chaps you think $46m would have solved your problems you are jokers,Magande borrowed $30m for capacity building , how many of you on this blog benefited?Some of you think $46m is like manna,there is more theft under LPM’s rule than this $46m you are mourning about.K3Trillion has been stolen ever since Levy took over with Ministry of Health,Agriculture, Education,transpot topping the list.So stop being naive just wait to see how the aftermarth of this judgement will unfold.
Bauze Ngozi you are right in #42
Bashimpundu, Chiluba isn’t a bembe. He’s a lunda sakalanyongo from Mwense. So please dont dragg the Bembas in direpute and contempt
#31,#45 please stop discussions that border on tribal inclinations on this blog we are zambians not by tribe but by unity.Come on AM ordering you to stop it.
Am the deputy monitor to Kayata, officially appointed by ba Joze, MHSRIP
kuku #46,you are right,actually we are prefects. #20,#23,#24 ,The white man came to Africa with a Bible, he gave us the Bible and we gave him the land, till today we still have the Bible and he still has our land. The African came to Europe with the Bible, the white man still has his land and the african still has the bible.
Twaumfwa boss
Born Rich #36,i agree with you.Tell Ba Shimpundu #31 and mala #45,and those focusing on tribal lines,according to what i and those who’ve been to school have learnt is that there are no true indigenous zambian’s.We all came in from somewhere,but the Tonga’s were the earliest to come into Zambia. Sorry,i’m nt Tonga, and the other tribes followed later.
America,sorry again i’m not American,is made up of people from all corners of the world,hence the immigration debate has been a difficult one to handle.
Every Senator originated from somewhere,some are Italian’s,German’s,Russian’s etc. We are all Citizens of this World, God made this world as one and for everyone without borders.
It is true,never should we ever allow no Man to pretend he is Mankind and pretend to be saviour by using Bible.Don´t ever take advantage over poor people or in over words don´t make promises you can´t keep and think that the bad we do will never get us.Alot of people want good lives,clean water and all it takes is to make them happy by doing what they espect from good leaders.Don´t be a licky manand think you will a great nation like Zambia.Otherwise,Big Up Mr Levi……and one love and unity to Motherland Zambia!!!!!!!!!!
Perhaps no-one paid attention to this story “Delayed salaries contribute to corruption, Police official” on this very site. You cannot stamp out corruption if you do not improve conditions for key workers in the civil service(health,education). As great as this court judgement is, it does nothing to thousands of graduates with no jobs, thousands of nurses working in barely functioning hospitals & clinics. Justice has been done? What about the justice wrought through good governance, trasparent and accountable govt? We need a govt that has people’s interests at the centre of its agenda not what will get re-elected. Can we just remind ourselves why LPM was elected for 2nd term or perhaps our memories are foggy from the Chiluba case? Politicians should only stay in office only as long as they implement what people need and not by how much blacker they can paint the other party.
Iwe Chi Kuku & Chi Kayata behevu!! Ba Jose abakamba ngabaisa bakasa michita akati. His second coming (resuscitation) will be bad for you 2. Why cant u let hims RIP. Mwasamwa sana baice.
‘African Views’ a topical programme on SABC Africa tackled the issue of corruption recently. A panelist who’s both a member of the African parliament and Ghana parliament said it takes $60,000 to build a rural school in his country. If that is extrapolated to the $46M FTJ stole,Zambia could have built about 766 rural schools or 10 schools per district! # 44 can you see why some of us are concerned.
As for the 3trillion people keep referring to as stolen, it’s just not possible, I mean the figures don’t add up! Why? Well, look @ it this way. In $ terms that amount translates to something like $750 Billion or ten times Zambia’s debt or better still almost a third of the national budget. The country would just have totally collapsed if this amount was stolen!
Mad Scientist#51, pity can’t help with the madness, but i agree with you in the first part of your contribution, though not with the latter. LPM was only re-elected by default, becoz majority voted for a disjointed opposition, so we haven’t forgotten anything. He is the only president in Zambia’s history that’s gotten into power by 1st – A dubious phone call in the night, then 2ndly – by default, becoz of the reason above!
AM #52,Ba Joze has gone to console his friend Jose(Chelsea Manager) for loss over Premiership,and for his dog been in trouble with the Police. kabili Jose believe in africa players(kalou,drogba,makelele etc),maybe Ba Joze will join Chelsea and join his namesake who is good at insults too. Ba Joze is good export for Zambia,plus he’ll be first ex-kulima,ex-kamwala, current inter city champion player to play in English premiership. Even Kalusha has never reached such an extent. Russians are smiling.
#AM#52, ba Joze has gone to get cheap ARV’s from Monze because those ones at UTH are inaccessible for poor like me and then he promised me ‘ulunsonga’ for my ring worms,that is what Humanism is all about, help your neighbor as you would helped, some of you like ‘Born rich’ your riches are just for spending donate $1 to every opharned child in Zambia and your goodwill like BaJoze is doing will never be forgotten.Forget about FTJ’ $46m you little help will go along way to alleviate child poverty.
As starting point for all suscribers on this blog let us join hands and start a charity that will take care of the vulnerable like me.Ba Joze keep it up, and Jude is waiting for your engagement ring.
Kayata will be the fund manager, let us not just talk let us act
#56, I like Ba Joze spicing comments and back off me !!!
Kuku #56; Let us hold a fundraising party for Ba Joze.I have alot of connections in the corporate world. we can raise money so that we can have Internet in the village where Ba Joze has relocated to.
I am told that he is spending sleepness nights and is failing to cope without this blog. That way we may also assist people like Jude#57 get in touch with him!!
Bane, Born Rich was only born with riches but lost it all when he growing up due to his mischievous. Thats why he grew up very poor, than when born. No wonder eleminina ululimi pa $46 ya FTJ, ala walipa. As for #53 the 3trillion is your mad friend in state who pronounced to the world that, it is stolen. So since he Mr ‘knows it all’, we all believed that he has fact to effect. Jude #57 do worry, tukaleta isalamo nga babwela bamudala Ba Jose.
Bwana Kuku,
Your fervent loyalty to Chiluba worries me.What ever monies or assets to be recovered from him will not go into LEVI’S pocket but the public coffers.
Even a blind man, can see what Chiluba has stolen.
Do not be like the proverbial stubborn fly who refused to listen and was buried together with a corpse he followed to the grave.
#60CITIZEN(umwikashi)you continue to amuse me,Iam not loyal to FTJ and will never be one, my line of reasoning is on the misapplication of justice the man has endured under the theme’corruption crusade’.Citizen have you ever imagined someone just keep infringing on you without much room for you to manouvre?From onset, this man FTJ was never availed chance to make a statement when the man’s immunity not against Aids but against persecution was lifted.Today even Dr Simon has been availed nough time to defend himself but this man never saw this chance so what country is it that has different rules and laws applicable to selective individuals? Come on Citizen of Zambia limited give me your humanly thoughts.Analytical skills demand that you look at both the positive and the negative and then draw up a conclusion.Most of you have opted to rejoice on the positive side but have a look at the negative side of the situation.For now Iam going to the grave to be burried with the corpse
Since Shimpundu thinks Chiluba is being persued because he is Bemba and his Bemba Friend and that one Tonga pawn. What if i saya, all the $41million will go to build schools and hospita and improve agriculture and fisheries in Luapula..I guess it will be for the benefit of those pipo in Mwense, Mwanabombwe, Mbereshi, Kashikishi, Kabuto, Chiengi to mention a few places. Maybe we can have many more Tongas, and Easterners migrating to Luapula for new opportunities..What about that.Is that enough reason to get our money back.
Latest, Ba Jose was arrested and cautioned after arguing with police about his dog, according to reports reaching my blog. The report claim police went to his misisi home to help put the dog into quarantine, fearing it had been taken abroad (monze) and back without jabs. I hear Ba Jose was arrested on suspicion of obstructing police. He was later cautioned, pls let us help him by fundraising as Born Rich(#58) had suggested. Pls send ur initial contribution to Kapaya thro blog, dont worry I will auditing him he wont plunder like famous the $46.
Kuku #56,thanks for allowing me to be the fund manager,once in power,i’ll make sure that i ruin(run) the funds.i’ll also solicit for funds for that poor child who walks to school every day,and buy a whip that will make him run faster instead of walking.The boy needs whipping.I’ll make sure that every contributor’s pocket on this blog is privatised.ACC declared Ba Joze insult free,i’ll make sure that instead of Monze court,we shall take him to Bulawayo Magistrate’s for sovereignity and independence sake to reverse the ACC judgement.Ba Joze has also named Mudala as having contributed to the insults,since Mudala was the first,but why is Ba Joze mentioning it now,that he has been caught.Too many lies.Mudala should now rest in retirement,and besides he once said he was returning to Chinsali,what is he still doing in Lusaka? Now that FTJ’s assets are to be frozen,i’ll campaign that he returns somebody’s wife too,so should Mandela.No wonder they used the same UK Lawyers.
Shimpundu, please don’t leave in the past. Be learned, Ka Stupid Chiluba is a thief
Reference to my above #63 it has come my attention that, it was actual not our law abide citizen Ba Jose but Chelsea boss Jose Mourinho who was arrested. Sorry ba mudala(i didnt have my reading bottles on)for deformation of body and soul. After role you have an alibi – that is u were no way near misisi but in monze YSRIP. The train and station in monze can be your witness.
For this blog information only, FTJ’s assets will never be frozen, because are all in the names of his grown children and wives (both former and current). By the way, FTJ’s current wife was paid with car, so Kayata dont be stuborn for nothing, u cannot campaign for her return to her husband, because he has already bashed the car (lobola). So wife is for Chiluba for keeps until $46 separate them.
AM (#66); since you lied about Ba Joze in #63, what happens to the $46M i have already deposited in you e-cash account. Please bring it back before i involve judge smith.
You might just spend the rest of your life with FTJ in kabwe (i mean mukobeko maximum prison).
KC, you can not offer amnesty in a civil case. Its either the government get indemnfied or it does not enforce the judgement. Kambilombilo… Levy is the probably the most ungratefull human being on earth today. he accually beats “JUDAS” on this one. If you look at the fact that LPM was broke just after Quiting as VP, he seriously needed medications for his carbage issues. FTJ took care of him in the spirit of brotherhood (LPM confessed to this) and if that was not enough he mad him president. Politics aside LPM is not human or he is mentally ill.
Again who are the “19 others” why are we just talking about FTJ can some one kind enough list the 19 others for us. thank you
SAGE #39; This is not an issue between FTJ and LPM SC. If there was an agreement between the 2 when FTJ anointed FTJ, that is their problem and should not stand in the way of Justice!!! Levy is just doing the people’s bidding.
SAGE #39; This is not an issue between FTJ and LPM SC. If there was an agreement between the 2 when FTJ anointed Levy, that is their problem and should not stand in the way of Justice!!! Levy is just doing the people’s bidding.
#69, What is happening to FTJ is the work of NATURAL JUSTICE.
The beauty about that is that nothing stands in the way of Natural Justice, not even the “spirit of brotherhood”!
Let’s set up a commission of enquiry into how much goverment has lost in the last three decades. I am sure the ministry of finance has records to that effect. We can not totally blame one person for the misdeed that has led our country to be so impoverished. The terms of reference should be:
To seal loop holes in the accounting system at MF
To establish the abusers of the system
To who authorizes what and at what limit
To establish why there should be so many foreign travel by ministry officials
Who manipulates the currency
etc
this is just my opinion to get to the bottom line
Mr.SAGE,Goodmorning.The fact that FTJ thru the govt paid for LPM’s treatment should not be a ticket of brotherhood and let FTJ scot free.Do you know who was behind the said car accident,and where is that “lungu” who bashed into LPM’s vehicle? The 19 other’s are FTJ’s accomplice’s, Stella and group,they are all to pay back.Since LPM’s brain was affected during that crash,therefore his mental state is not up to date or you can say it is ill.SAGE,for what reasons shouldn’t the govt nt enforce the judgement? The British and Zambian Govt have similar rules,but note this is not about colonisation.Only when favours,corruption and presidential pardon come in,can there be a change of goal post.
AM #67,only stubborn people achieve what they want.FTJ used plundered money to pay for lobola,Regina became part of his assets,therefore we demand she be frozen and returned to the state,according to the customary laws.The Minister of Plunder,Mike,will be making a statement later on this issue of Regina
I suggest that Regina as one of Chiluba’s assets be set up as a “Revolving Asset” amongst our nationals.
I can come up with logistics of how #75 could be achieved. What do the others say?
Good morning Bro Kayata. Well, i’m on your side on this one, if FTJ guilty he he and his accomplice will have to indemnfy the plaintiff. The issue here is and always been the jurisdiction. We are all for the rule of law to take its course. But taking a civil case to foreign court and passing judgement in a civil case before dispossing off of the criminal cases is a miscourage of justice. The other thing i’m not getting is who are the 19 others besides FTJ and Stella. Is it delibarate that these names are being withheld? Mr Kayata… on lobola for regina, dont disappoint me.
For the “Lungu” chap may be he is dead. Levy is vindictive person , if Lungu was alive he would hunt him down and either Kill him or arrest him.
Since Levy now have access to some security data. We can assume that he knows his accident was suspicious. This even call for more punishment to Chiluba. FTJ thought he had managed to send Levy to carbage land and then install a cabbage president to Zed. Praise God, the Cabbage turned into Steak as ‘levy’ confessed.. Maybe there was define intervention..and it was through levy’s ,mentle state that FTJ thought he would be controlling the Mwanawakwi… ndiye yamene bakaamba ati, scoring your own goal..Chiluba was under pressure. The bugger was damned scared..
sorry guys, i was trying to divert the attention from Chilubas guilt to his tribe because we already failed to divert issues to zambias sovereignity.
i have now repented and will now go with the truth from now, i hope my big brother chiluba follow suit.
thanks guys for the gospel.
Mr SAGE,On Regina those are only jokes.Don’t take them serious.Joke even before it is payday.Anyway,on the “lungu” issue,we know how he was transfered to a Chipata prison,then released and returned back to prison,and has disappeared,so did we hear of Chinula who was found in the park eaten by lions.Thats politics,some people take politics too serious that when they have family funerals, they even argue or dont talk to each other.
Back to the issue at hand,are you suggesting that the civil case in london should have awaited the judgement of the chikwa courts,when you’ve labeled the Chikwa boys and their associate’s as been inept.Smith has more serious cases to look at,and FTJ knows the transparency in the UK guys.FTJ has denied everything labeled against him,why has he started of mentioning of the funds KK misdirected.And thats what the chikwa courts are afraid telling FTJ cos some of them are his boys.
Mr SAGE,here are 2 quotes for the debate,
1. “Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.”
2. “Democracy is a process by which the people are free to choose the man who will get the blame.”
Kayata can you please appeal to chilumba,SamK and Daka to start contributing Ba Joze is gone for good.So the blog is back with intellectuals except for Born Rich who is undergoing rehabilitation so far by SAGE and seems to be doing well.
Please please they have been gone for too long.
For Born Rich, stop talking about Regina in that way , that is why Mkulupe is getting upset with, immaturity on the blog.How would you feel if your girl friend was mentioned in public like that?Grow up and show repsect for elders.
This Chiluba story has become boring. It has put Zambia on hold. We are losing time to make money, infact more than that “lost” through Chiluba, from copper because all the Chaps in government are busy managing Chiluba cases. They have stopped doing their jobs. These chaps should increase taxes for the mines immediately. We need to move forward. They should not hide their incompetence in the FTJ case. They should let the courts handle Chiluba cases because they are paid for that including the task force. They should let Chiluba pay back after all he can do that by simply collecting money from all the people he was giving it to ie Levy, MMD, Katumbi etc. Since what he is suppose to pay back pesonally is not more that $3m,I think he can manage after all Levy who got the biggest chunk through the elections is around. They will agree between them. The rest can be grabbed since they say they are properties. The problem is they may even sieze govt’s own properties.
73 concerned citezen, you are right. We need all the money that has been “lost” or mismanaged. So an inquiry needs to be set up to probe any loss of money or assets in the last 3 to 4 decades so that this issue stops to be tagged “persecution, witch hunting, vindictiveness” or whatever. We should not just hear about other abuses in the papers.
Kaunda, Chiluba or Mwanawasa should not just say by word of mouth that they have not stolen. Because even Chiluba has not accepted. So All the three including future ones should be subjected to this exercise. We should know how much money we have lost through this Intelligency accounts since 1964 and also through other ways. There should be no immunity for any president has it lost meaning. In any case if the others are clean they should advocate for their immunities to be lifted. Even during liberations, we should know how much money beneficiary freedom fighters from other countries got. I KNOW THAT THIS IS IMMENENT!
73 concerned citezen, you are right. We need all the money that has been “lost” or mismanaged. So an inquiry needs to be set up to probe any loss of money or assets in the last 3 to 4 decades so that this issue stops to be tagged “persecution, witch hunting, vindictiveness” or whatever. We should not just hear about other abuses in the papers.
Kaunda, Chiluba or Mwanawasa should not just say by word of mouth that they have not stolen. Because even Chiluba has not accepted. So All the three including future ones should be subjected to this exercise. We should know how much money we have lost through this Intelligency accounts since 1964 and also through other ways. There should be no immunity for any president has it lost meaning. In any case if the others are clean they should advocate for their immunities to be lifted. Even during liberations, we should know how much money beneficiary freedom fighters from other countries got. I KNOW THAT THIS IS IMMENENT!
Bro Kayata since you close to your cousin Smith, do me a favour could photocopy the list of the 19 others for us. We are dying to know who is in the gang. I still maintain my position on the ineptitude displayed by our prosecutors and investigators. Whe AG decided to take this case to court he didnt even know or think about the aftermath of Judge Smiths judgement. These Inept chaps are now scampering trying to find a way to enforce the judgement. And by the way you legal experts. What do they mean by “register the judgement” helps understand the legal mumbo-jumbo. We all know that the criminal case has been compromised by the civil case. The question is what is the objective. Are seeking indemnity or punishment or both. If its indemnity let the prosecutors enter a nulle and forcus on enforcing the civil.if its punishment we are in for another 5 years appeals. As i have state if we are going to debate FTJ’s rule, i consider him a terrible failure and a missed opportunity for Zambia.
#86, these lawyers are just a bunch of disgruntled fanatics, had it been in mathematics they would be no trial and error, its either your supposition is wrong or you dont know.Its sickening to learn that the entire AG has got guts to say’they are trying to put in systems before registering the case’its like counting the chicks before eggs are hatched.This case having been predetermined and the insatiable greedy by lawyers to make money over it ignored alot of issues of course for a purpose’greedy’.I fail to understand what sort of people we have and dealing with,Our leaders are just plain immoral
Let me get under the skin of some of u chaps here who are trying to defend chiluba and show that u are educated.You are just like a doctor who refuses to admit that smoking is a danger to your health.Chiluba was given the chance to defend himself but he chose not to.Even sadam though he did not recognise the court that tried him but he appeared and protested in the court.Chiluba is just one little arrogant ang ignorant thief who can even see that his lawyers are ther to get some of the money that he stole.He may not agree with the judgement but just like sadam the judgement is valid.No wonder you will ever be ruled because you refuse to use your education in the right way.
Let me get under the skin of some of u chaps here who are trying to defend chiluba and show that u are educated.You are just like a doctor who refuses to admit that smoking is a danger to your health.Chiluba was given the chance to defend himself but he chose not to.Even sadam though he did not recognise the court that tried him but he appeared and protested in the court.Chiluba is just one little arrogant ang ignorant thief who can even see that his lawyers are ther to get some of the money that he stole.He may not agree with the judgement but just like sadam the judgement is valid.No wonder you will ever be ruled because you refuse to use your education in the right way.Infact most of you are john solye ubwali
Kambilombilo #89,sorry to mention but you are the type of people Saddam used to give to “Chemical Ali” to suffocate. If it was in Hitler’s time,since you are fond of getting under the skin of other people,Hitler would have skinned you alive. All your colleagues here are giving their points of view,all you can contribute is getting under their skin. Are you a parasite? people are arguing and using their education in their right way,thats why lawyers argued in court about Saddam’s case though it was clear he was guilty because of his crime.If Chavez or Mugabe read your comments,i think they would befriend you and you joined the ZANU-PF so you would share in the rationing of electricity. just make your positive contributions and we shall appreciate them. It’s a learning society
I think we have been all hoodwinked by whatever Levy has done to Chiluba. The post newspapers are in the forfront to crusify Chiluba. Please, remember there are good things that he did also. For KK please just shut up as he messed our country so terribly and i would like to ask hime to tell the nation about the time magazine which ranked him the second richest president to late Mobutu of the DRC. Most of us Zambians are very short sighted such that we can not see just a distance from our own shadows. Please leave FTJ alone.
AM be very careful what you say before you say it.You have committed a number of fallacies in your statements. To start with you accuse me to be a devil worshiper.Check the definition of an accuser in the dictionary-it means devil.I am not claiming the position of God, God works in his people see Deutronomy 18:18 and other scriptures.God chooses leaders i believe God has chosen me a leader for a better Zambia.This fora is not to accuse one another but where ideas can help us make Zambia a better place.Ideas we get here are not to be kept within or let them die but to make them come to reality.The Bible tells let us put the light in an open area to give light to the whole room.Not meant to be hidden.within this fora are people who will build zambia,people who will be leader.Lastly GOD makes and unmakes kings-This is written in the Holy Bible.AM be a person with a Vision and work towards that,thats what we all must do.Lets all work together for mother Zambia.
zambians should learn not to be prejuducial and carry the law in their own hands.the commets that chiluba is a thief are very prejuducial becoz if u read the london judgement it does not suggest that.as a lawyer allow me to say that if u read the judgement objectively like i have done it will be heavy for u to say what pipo are saying.liability does not mean u are mean u are the one who did what is alleged.its like ur child steals and they say since u are the father u will be responsible.that is the case with Dr chiluba.iam not defending him but that is the truth as the judgement stands
Please seize those items and let justice prevail.FTJ Kafupi must pay for his wrong deeds.
Keep it up LPM Sc.we are behind you.
Ba Trigo!bola panshi!!never meant to offend you or make u worked up I was referring to answer u gave to Kuku’s question in #20 and I quote “Nani akatupokololako kuli bamambala aba? and ur answer was “Kuku #20 you have just got your answer its me”! You & me knows that the only solution to all the problems in this country is God. Human beings can fail us and infact they have before failed, starting from KK,FJT and now LPM.That is what I was trying to put across to u and that the answer Kuku was looking for is for sure the Mighty One-God and we cannot claim that we can do better than F/presidents who have failed the zambian pipe.Otherwise,each one of us on blog are trying to put across what God has reviewed to him/her to contribute for betterment of this nation & I,for one think every one who contributes is a leader in his/her way and that leadership is from God himself and he is one who is going to us serve.am I sorry what I said hates u,what I meant is to detestation the devil himself.
Shaba at 93, I commend you for being so objective. The question is why is Zambia lagging behind in development? The answer lies in the lack of authenticity in many aspects. For example even on simple things like reading a judgement and analyse it with an independent mind, most of our colleagues debating here wait for the Post or Mulongoti to tell them what it means, then they take it as gospel truth. Guys lets learn to be well informed by reading analysing and triangulating issues. As long as you allow others to do it for you, you will forever remain a slave, it probably explains why this simple case could not be dealt with by local (Zambian) courts – not supporting chiluba or anybody here. If indeed the reciporocal agreement is the reason, then the local courts’ judgement could have been enforced using the london courts rather than otherwise, which makes a mockery of justice. Liability is not equivalent to guilty. Debate from an informed position country men.
Ba Mulenga Pule,
Kindly give me more information on the Times Magazine’s ranking of KK as the second richest president to Mobutu.
Give me the edition and the year. I will then easily access it from the Archive.
I am on stand by
No worries Am.I get your point, cheers.I wasnt annoyed otherwise.Just trying to make things clear.The greatest thing i want is many Zambians to realise is that we can stand own our own. The moment we do that, thats when zambia will be ready for a transformation.We can do beautiful things.
I know many of us on this fora will meet.It will definately be easy to recognise some of us. For me you will definately know its me, and you will remember this fora and will work together.
LPM is a lawyer and iam surprised that he has lawlesness and prejudicial statements to be issued by a non legal mind of mike mulongoti who when i hear what he says my heart go low becoz the world is watching and they are laughing at what this man is saying over FTJ london judgement.i would propose that next time levy should consider appointing a lawyer as info minister so as to reduce on the govt to be embarased like the way this man is doing.wake up mike and his supports u are issuing statements that a not legal.mumba malila is there u should consult him b4 u open ur mouth.zambians have heard malila speak? this should tel u something becoz he understand what is at stake not mike.
1 man said an action repeated leads to an atitude, and an atitude repeated leads to a character and a character repeated leads to a your destination which can either be gud or bad.what iam i tuking about? mikes comments are very dangerous to the legal profession and shoud be taken as such.where are the legal minds in zambian to to giv guidance and not the post,daily and times newspapers on Dr chiluba judgement.this individuals are misleading this nation and we ned the lawyers for the way forward
It does NOT add anything at all for Zambians to be prejudicial after the judgement has been passed.It is incumbent upon the defendant to appeal if they are not happy.Whether you hold contrary views, the judgement should be taken as a Fact at the time, offcourse it can be changed upon succesiful appeal.
It might not help to have all Zambians shut up save for those with legal minds.
Forget about them liars
hai hey thanks for ur opinion which i should say i respect and uphold in high eteem but legal matters are legal and u cant take anything from that.this is not human resource or management or even economics but legal and as such the lawyers should tak centre stage in informing the nation on what shud happen.i know lawyer simeza and sangwa and i should inform u that if they appeared b4 judge smith the judgement would have ben otherwise becoz the lawyers are intellegent even levy knows.the legal minds can not and should not shut up but give direction and not mike or the post.
Good points Shaba, I think we need more people of your calibre, intelligent, objective, not driven by emotions nor the “wind”. Personally I think that what most of these media outlets are giving people is simply “smoke”. That’s why create unnecessary anxiety among most unreasonable, unschooled,lazy Zambians who don’t want to make an effort to find out on their own. They wait to be spoon fed by these seemingly self ordained “good editors”. You see no one holds a monopoly of wisdom. Zambians dont be swayed by seemingly small minds, try to exercise objectivity. God bless Zambia
Good points Shaba, I think we need more people of your calibre, intelligent, objective, not driven by emotions nor the “wind”. Personally I think that what most of these media outlets are giving people is simply “smoke”. That’s why create unnecessary anxiety among most unreasonable, unschooled,lazy Zambians who don’t want to make an effort to find out on their own. They wait to be spoon fed by these seemingly self ordained “good editors”. You see no one holds a monopoly of wisdom. Zambians dont be swayed by seemingly small minds, try to exercise objectivity. God bless Zambia
Shaba, Nice to know that a legal mind has joined us on this forum.We hope u can enlighten us further on the implications of this judgement on the criminal cases ongoing; Implications once the 14 days elapse; What technicalities are involved in registering this judgement with our High court; Whether after registration an appeal can then be mounted in our High court or is that impossible?
Shaba, whats been disappointing is that, as you’ve observed, its only “sqeaky Mike”, thats been commenting, yet the AG who is responsible for this case has chosen to remain quiet, which is fairly understandable if that would infringe on further developments or implementation of the judgement, but then mikey shud be give some direction. Lungu from LAZ hasn’t really shed much light, when you take that he is speaking on behalf of LAZ, more so that after AG’s harsh comments in L’stone, you would take it LAZ would want to straighten it image.
Mulenga.. You are right about KK.. although i woudnt use the word shut up. I get sick to my stomach when i see someone like KK who was president for 27 years talking about “people need decent housing” why didnt you build the so called decent housing when you where president. KK talks about FTJ like he was any better. That old man turned Zambia into a concentration camp. People couldnt discuss anything for fear of the kamuchekas, i remember my uncle would visit us whenever he wanted to say anything boardering on politics my Dad would say mwikatuletelela. KK should just keep quite and enjoy our generocity. In all honesty none of our former presidents deserve the benefits they are getting. I remember in the 80s when Panji smuggled all the sugar to Tanzania some of it got marooned in Kasama on the TAZARA train. But this man wants to behave like he was an angel.Paramilitary used to feed people with cameleons becuase they forgot their NRCs. For once KK should Shup the hell up.
Sage at least KK tried to build somehousing for the poor. Kabwata estates, Kafue estates, Kwacha east, Mushili Bonano and Chelstone police camp those are the few I can remember.
Ba Mulenga umulandu tawambukila. KK is now a non issue the person in the Dock is Chiluba.
What goes around comes around.
SAGE I am in agreement with you. You see KK may or infact just not holier than thou. This man is a hypocrite. When people appear not to talk about you presumably out of sympathy because you have aged out and not too much pressure, it doesnt make you clean. If so he should have offered to say please if you want to see that I am better than ka short, audit the zamtrop starting 1964. But you see he will cry about his immunity immunity …. He should know that immunity in Zambia is no longer there. It shouldnt hurt for Zambians to know how allocations to OP since ’64 have been used in the past so that we ascertain just how much the country has lost through poor governance. Saying no freedom fighters this, freedom fighters that… will not yield the truth. The fact and general suspcion is more than $41m has passed through that account since ’64. We need it all back. Even countries who received may be asked to pay a bit on moral grounds. What if Kafupi says he pumped some in congo, angola,e
The problem with CITIZEN is that he is so blinded with anger for Chiluba, SATA and Ba Kaponya in general. CITIZEN you need to understand the human dimension in this struggle that Chiluba and the Bembas have found themselves. Chiluba made a serious error of judgment by choosing Levy as a successor.
If at all LPM knows any justice, he should have also extended his corruption investigations to the Kaunda era. The Task Force on corruption should not restrict its mandate to the last ten years. We need to know what happened to the US$250 Million Zimco bonds in 1973. He has not done so because he really wants top punish Chiluba and any eminent bembas. I have said on this forum that God can install or remove any king and this is why humility and mercy are very important especially that Chiluba saved LPM’s life.
For Kaunda it took Urban Street riots to really destroy the foundations of his leadership. Levy is not different.
Shaba, The case was too strong. Your lawyers intelligence was not going to matter. Besides they still have the opportunity to appeal and exercise their intelligence over what are apparently obvious matters.
Its Chiluba and his colleques who were handed the judgement, so the issue of what about Kaunda does not arise since it was not discussed at all.At least not in this case.
If a judgement has been passed, what kind of zambians still need guidance from lawyers? Do you want the Zambians to receive guidance on how to interpret it?
Truly Zedian…This is not a tribal issue.i’m a bemba myself but FTJ “store” from the people. he and his cohorts abused the fiduciary resposibility we accorded him. Being president is a service not a busness. I believe Shansongo is not bemba. Tribalism wont get as anyware.for those of us in diaspora, we lough at ourselves because not too long ago we used to identify people as bembas Lozi etc. But living for from has tough that the human race bigger than race or tribe. Wait until you find yourself in a situation where you can go foa week without seeing a black person. trust me the first black person you will see you will them brother or sister regardless of whether they are nigerian or Brazilian. My point get over it we are one. Lets look at quality and not tribe. Chiluba brought this upon himself. We can argue on jusridiction and the legal mumbo-jumbo.
Mr SAGE,i think we share the same views,most people do not know what makes up America as one,most of the Senators have German,Russian,Italian,Czech,Hungary heritage etc but none has accused another to return to their homeland.Tell my brothers and sisters who believe in tribalism of people like Shaha Ali Riza,Condoleeza Rice,Indra Nooyi,Oprah Winfrey etc
El tribalismo y el racismo son malos para la clase humana, sólo la gente importada baja piensa en ellos como prioridades.
Who dresses LPM. Does he do it himself or it come from tax payers money?
Can someone put me in the picture
Mukwesu,everything is catered for,for the head of state,the vp,army commander,chief justice and their families.
The state caters for everything, using a state house based account for easy accountability.Its budgeted for in state house budget.To use an intelligence account like in FTJs case is theft.
How do someone account for the following activities in the Chiluba epilogue.
The Ka-man agitates for third term for fear of unknown..now we know he was trying to clean up the mess in the last minute, and continue enjoying abuse of authority.
Katele Kalumba disappearing with a Satellite Phone and a Laptop which came to be known as a traditional computer was no facy but the work of Chiluba, Xavier and the others to transfer Lucres from some accounts into some hideous account. Yet Chimwanawasa still keep this Katele..Maybe Katele cut a deal and became State informer..
How about Chiluba messing up the Careers of upcoming youngsters like Eric, Valantine, and others he messed up on selling tribalism agenda.
Chiluba is and was a curse to Zambia and should be punished till the devil in him escapes and he truly becomes born again…Not hypocrite and adulterer
HK you are talking because the same Chiluba liberated you from the one party rule where you were not free to talk the way you are talking. Let us not forget where we are coming from because this can happen to anyone. God help you realise that the freedom you enjoy was granted through that short man.
It is human that when there are no controls things tend to go the wrong way. Think positively and discuss issues. Our country is in dire need of leadership that can see through things and be able to plan. The interest of any leader now is personal first before anyone else.
If you can convince me that LPM and the other leaders that have accees to national resources are looked after by the same resources, why should we pay them heft salaries which they dont need because everything # 116 is catered for. The fact that everything is catered for is wrong. Let us start thing Zambians. Add whatever expenses the state pays to their salary. It is immoral let us change and consider those without!
correction ” let us start thing ” is suppose to be let us start thinking.
If we allow the status quo to continue we shall remain poor because the little resources that are available are shared between the “haves” and the have not’s continue wallowing in poverty. We should realise why politicians in Zambia will do everything to get into office. Service aside because it treated as let us talk about it.
We need to overhall the who system and i hope some one in authority is taking note.
Ba FTJ limpileni fye mwalaonda.Let FTJ pay back the money or else Future presidents will follow is example.
A truth commission would have helped levy leave a remarkable legacy.But this man will go down in history as a man who engages his brain before the brain, selfish, greedy,inconsistent,oppressive,know it all,miser,unapreciative,speculator,full of predejuce,etc.All those rejoicing over FTJ’s suffering I say think twice and reflect before your minds get walloped into a dungeon of mediocre politicians.Its is always prudent to talk about real issues instead of just waffling like some of you are doing on this blog.Next week will be an exciting week, be calm and let us what follows, how the law will separate men fron from boys, girls from women,crooks from honest,sick from health,dull from intelligent.Until the courts of law interpret Smith’s judgement shall we all be in a position to speak.This case has been a one sided predetermined to just embarass and gravely harass one person.So all you loud mouths just keep your cool and stop your boring comments
Mukwesu#118, FTJ didn’t liberate us, IT IS THE ZAMBIAN PEOPLE that liberated themselves, he just happened to be the figurehead of the movement becoz he was well known having been president of ZCTU! He was a compromise, becoz the country wanted change, his skeletons were well known in ZCTU, but ZCTU didn’t want to rock the boat as the other possible candidates weren’t palatable.
The reason people in public office have entitlements, is becoz, public duty entails alot of sacrifice; They are inducements too, otherwise no one would be queueing to go to plot1.
Problem we have with FTJ is really teasing out whether he ABUSED his office OR REALLY STOLE. From the civil case, he is found liable, but more likely for abuse of office, hence the fiduciary responsibility that Smith is talking about – mind you he hasn’t at any point mentioned stealing!
LPM’s upkeep is indeed met by the taxpayer!
One thing I do not understand is that while Chiluba’s case in the UK has come to an end, his cases in Zambia are still pending. What does this imply? The implications are that the Zambian Judicial system is rubbish. Another issue I do not understand is how the Zambian Govt are going to enforce a judgement passed out in another country, under which law of Zambia?? All Britain would have done was to pass to the Zambian courts the all the information they had and then let our High Court come up with a ruling. As things are it will be complicated becasue the London Court is not an International Court at all.
I agree with Nail, now we have sunk so low that we need courts outside our Country to do work for us, this is being stupid and unacceptable and colonial mentality. Anyway if we want to be colonized once more then let us come up in the open. It is like a husband who fails to make a decision but asks someone else to decide on his behalf! Who will respect such a man, only fools not so. Jesus Christ let us think before we comment
Justice #124, we were better off with the rule of the coloniser’s,than the thugs who took over,and we should have learnt one thing from them,love,unity,respect and transparency are important in life. Your leaders and their ancestors even sold some of their relative’s all for the love power.
Hong Kong learnt something from it’s colonisers,before claiming independence.
I wonder what would have been the case had the “hiroshima” happened in Zambia, Japanese have forgotten about it and progressed on with life.Life is not about complaints but resolutions.
Chilubas cases in Z are still pending because of his constant habit of feigning illness.
Lets not be swayed by the dribbling of the thief.
The west are richer, its a fact, unfortunately.
Apart from carrying out fair judgement on our behalf, they also do other things that we are not yet able to do locally such as manufacture the cars we drive, treat our patients (London, SA), educate our masses (Cambridge, Oxford). The list is endless, at times we have no option but to appreciate them.
Offcourse all these favours DO NOT mean they are ruling us, they just have the means at times.
It is amazing some people like the POST are asking Chiluba to apologise. But LPM must lead by example by confessing his involvement in a fraudulunt elections of 2001. Don’t tell me he is cleaner than Chiluba, remember both are bena Ndola.
LPM collected cash from FTJ, this is a fact.
bauze #122 you’ve missed the point. There is no sacrifice that is greater than seeing to it that your neighbour is not sleeping hungry. Do you tell me honestry that we need to be taxed so that we can make LPM more comfortable. He is a businessman, a lawyer and a farmer. if anything his farms have become more productive now that he is president than before. The offshore accounts that he maintains are enough to look after him. The little resources that the country has have to be shared by him and his lieutenants.
Zambia has a very small population with a lot resources that does not warrant the country to be in the state it is but yet we cant see any significant progress. Money is not properly shared and as long as you see it as sacrifice we wont get anywhere. Chiluba is not the first person to steal, neither is he the last. In LPM rule alone we have heard a lot from the auditor generals reports, let alone the levels of corruption especially in public offices.
the implication on this case being registered in zambia are both legal and they can also been seen from the security point of u.my interation with the lawyers who are close to Dr chiluba have suggested that he has alot of options once the judgement is the registered 1 being that he can challenge the legality of the case 2 can appeal against it or abide by it.this i shud indicate that can take a long time even close to 5 years.if he challenges the case there is a likeliwood that trial can be started all over again that is why i have estimated the period stated above.in law a judgement entered in a lower court is not an end in itself.so zambians shud not be exited by judge smith judgement
(110#)Truly Zambian
I don,t hate Chiluba. What grieves me are the consequenses of his actions on the common Zambian citizens that I see every day.
If you must know Chiluba is not Bemba but Lundu from Mwense or(is it Congo). Thieving is not tribal. The decent Bemba did not benefit a cent from the stolen money. I am sure even you who proclaim to be Bemba or is it Bemba speaking was not given a cent from the loot.
What are we waiting for.Throw Chiluba in jail and get rid of the KEY.Ill heath my A**
Ba Citzen, you talk like you were stealing together with Chiluba. In my view not all the cash talked about was “stolen”. Infact a bigger part of it actually be found to be not stolen as purpoted. Even the “Task force on Chiluba” knows this fact. I agree that some missuse may have gone on but not the extent talked about. Lets be objective in our discussion. I am not saying if he stole less its okay no, because corruption is corruption no matter how small. But LPM knos that he has engaged in corruption during his term as well. Just in case he thinks there is such a thing as a small case he will be shocked himself. It starts from small things like nepotism, fraudulent awarding of tenders e.g the Winter maize, abuse of authority by supressing innocent people like kalaki and sata, etc
I have said this b4 and I will say it again, LPM is the chief benefictor of the FTJ’s stole money. During his campaigns in 2001 were moving touring the country together, they insepartable, like phone & slimcard and the man had nothing to write home about, but they used to helipcotering through Zambia, obviously using stolen or gvn resources. I agree with someone who said Task force for LPM should start now. Lets hobby for his immunity to be removed be4 he leaves the office and starting getting sickly.
#131 Iwe Mwaka ulinkaka, how dare you say that?moreover you are a girl who should be remorseful.You are so hard hearted , woe upon your soul?FTJ is innocent until the courts declare him otherwise.That Smith ***** he is a racist,an imperialist who should be thrown in Iraq to be sorted out as a transgressor.
Mukwesu #128, sori to say, U seem to have missed the point, look @ Italy for example, when Berlusconi became PM, though already a (M/B)illionaire, he was still entitled to the benefits of being a PM. So unfortunately for U & me, we are footing LPM’s upkeep, that is following, a “middle of the night phone call from FTJ” – that is adding SALT to injury!!
Joe # 132, Unfortunatey the London court does NOT support your views. Decisions will have to be based on its findings which are the official judgement.
LPM might be corrupt, but this time around its chiluba in the ring.We wont wait for Levys situation to be determined before getting chiluba to pay back. One step at a time bane.
(132#)Ba Joe
What do really want to say, this issue is not between Levy and FTJ. Whether it is Chiluba or Levy the consequenses of abusing the Presidential office are the same.
If you must know the prisons are full of ordinary and poor Zambians whose only crime has been to steal something valued below Fifty Pin in order to feed thier families. No one comes to their defence. And yet someone who spent stolen K5 BILLION on clothes and platform shoes gets sympathy from poeople like you.
If KK could be put in prison on Christmass day on fabricated issues what is so special about Titus Mpundu alias FTJ. If you must know he has a history of theft having stlen K10 from a widow being benefits for her late husband.
Kuku you are just like your name suggests-KUKU. Wake up and smell the coffee man! Maybe you have a similar past, please share so that we know where you are coming from. Justice must not only be done, it must be seen to be done. Let the law take its course.
Genius are you mwaka? How can I smell the coffee which I cant afford to buy?Talk of Kawambwa tea yes.But what are you trying to tell me in #138
Today is 22nd/5/07 i.e. a good 18 days since Smith made his judgement, minus 4 days for weekends, comes down to 14 working days – WE NEED TO KNOW WHAT GOVT HAS NOW DONE TO IMPLEMENT THIS JUDGEMENT, not just having LPM harking about it being a good judgement.
Guys, Luapulans are a very funny lot indeed. When Chiluba was busy destroying the economy, they were busy claiming things were getting better. You recall the outbursts “intungulushi shile teka ichalo?” And yet the nearest thing that they have for an economy is Katanga Zaire where there is clearly no economy at all.
Now, we took Chiluba to court and availed him a chance to appear before Justice Smith’s court but the pathetic Iturian primate refused to appear claiming he does not recognise the court. Strange that this is the very chap who handed over a Zambian called Mubanga to the American authorities in Guantanamo Bay where there are no courts at all but only the rule of Bush to torture him. Stinking fools like Kuku, unmistakable Luapulans from their vile stink, are suddenly coming here to discredit the judgement we have secured on one of their own. One wonder about what Luapulans know about the rule of law because apart from Kangaroo courts and “Kalumba style” disappearing wizadry
Whatever assets were obtained through public funds should be seized period.If it means leaving him homeless,let it be so, provided we do what the acc act penal code and criminal procedural act stipulates.Why should we let a creminal enjoy the proceeds of his crimes.Let be realistiC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Chiluba is so grossly liable that he has to surrender his wife Regina back to Mr Mwanza, Regina’s ex-husband. It’s widely believed that Chiluba used
stolen public funds to chuff her.