Interview with Eva Joly: “They give 100, 120 million to corrupt leaders and by means of which they can continue to plunder the country” 08/22/2019
(Ecofin Hebdo) – Anti-corruption icon, Eva Joly, during her career as an investigating judge at the financial centre of the Palais de Justice in Paris, has uncovered numerous cases, the most prominent of which was the Elf company’s African corruption network. She was also responsible for the indictment of Roland Dumas, then President of the French Constitutional Council, and the Bernard Tapie case against Crédit Lyonnais. Eva Joly has also advised several governments in the fight against corruption and international financial crime. In 2012, she was nominated as a candidate in the French presidential election for the Europe Ecologie Les Verts party.
Last month, she was received in London by the NGO Tax Justice Network, which presented her with an award for her extraordinary contribution to tax justice. Idriss Linge met her on this occasion. Interview.
Ecofin Agency : Your biggest battle against corruption has been in Africa. How did you conduct this investigation?
Eva Joly: It was an investigation that started in a rather modest way from a file of the COB (French SEC, NDLR), at the time, concerning the textile company BIDERMANN. And I discovered quite quickly that there were not normal movements of funds and after a long investigation, I was able to determine that BIDERMANN had received completely abnormal support from ELF. And from there, we went to Africa and I was able to establish that there was a whole system of corruption and undue profits. So Elf’s money was distributed: a little bit went back to Africa but many stayed in France and was used for the leaders’ own needs, for their wives, their children, their mistresses, for their way of life. And it is indeed the largest anti-corruption investigation in the West since the Second World War. And the good thing is that we were able to carry it to the end and people were convicted. 30 people were convicted in this case. But it was the first time we were really updating the network.
AE: What did you learn from this investigation on Africa?
Eva Joly: We have shown how African leaders, corrupted by ELF money, personally, allowed certain french people to enrich themselves at the expense of African countries. That was very interesting. And this aspect of the file was not really addressed, I believe, when there was equipment that could be used scientifically.
AE: You did not only intervene in French-speaking Africa. In Zambia, for example, what did you discover?
Eva Joly: Yes, Zambia, like all mining countries that make a living from the extraction of raw materials, does not receive a fair share of this natural rent, which is really captured by multinationals that use all the “tricks in the book”, in particular they use the sorting of transfers at the expense of countries, whether Mali or Zambia. They use tax havens, such as Mauritius for Zambia, and the profits made do not go to countries where they could be taxed to participate in development.
In fact, the figures we had at the time were that Zambia was only getting $50 million from this industry when the value of exports was in the order of $3 billion, so it was really a small part. In addition, it subsidized the electricity needed by the mining industry, not to mention the use of roads and other facilities… And so, it is absolutely revolting. And Norway’s development assistance project helped the Zambian government to change its contracts with multinationals, and the result was spectacular. Unfortunately, this did not last because the president, who was anti-corruption and who wanted this program (Michael Sata, editor’s note), died and his successor (Edgar Lungu, editor’s note) returned to the old traditions…
AE: How can these heads of state give in to temptation?
Eva Joly: It’s very often because they are paid personally with funds in accounts for Zambia in London. It is very cheap for multinationals. They give 100, 120 million to corrupt leaders and in return they can continue to plunder the country. This is why today we need to create a global, global register of properties that would make it possible to track who owns what, everywhere, for both developing and developed countries. And that would be a huge step forward in the fight against corruption and also against all forms of crime.
AE: After all these years of fighting corruption in Africa, do you see any progress emerging?
Eva Joly: No. Africa’s greatest misfortune is also the lack of quality of its leaders. And it is up to civil society to intervene, it is also up to civil society to work on democracy and to ensure that leaders are more transparent and accountable to the population. And let this curse end. I think there is a great willingness, a great understanding today in the developed countries that we must leave more of our wealth to Africa. We are terribly responsible for the situation in Mali.
Interview by Idriss Linge
Source: Agence Ecofin